Working for cash in hand?

AineB

Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone could help me out, I have been employed by a private office based company for the past 3 years. I work the normal 9-5 monday to friday, we have to work saturdays occasionaly but we get paid cash in hand, is this legal? are we even insured to be in the office???


Thanks:)

Zambia

Well I cant say but all my overtime has always been subject to Tax.

Bigcheeze

It's illegal for your employer to do this. Insurance doesn't come in to it unless you mean prsi which obviously is not being paid on your behalf.

Zambia

Is it illegal for the employee to take it?

Bigcheeze

Zambia232 wrote: »

Is it illegal for the employee to take it?

No it is the employers responsibility to account for tax to Revenue. If this was discovered the employer would have to make good the tax and prsi due to Revenue. Revenue would treat the cash paid as net after tax income to the employee.

MagicSean

Bigcheeze wrote: »

No it is the employers responsibility to account for tax to Revenue. If this was discovered the employer would have to make good the tax and prsi due to Revenue. Revenue would treat the cash paid as net after tax income to the employee.

Surely there is also an obligation on the employee to declare their income?

plasteritup

k_mac wrote: »

Surely there is also an obligation on the employee to declare their income?

surely there is an obligation on our scumbag rulemakers to declare,trips abroad with the wives getting nails and hair done to,**** sake a bit of cash in hand is the ordinary blokes brown envelope,we are corrupt from the top down,this country has gone down the pan,if we see our government ripping us all off left right and up the hole,what does anyone else expect.people at thios stage in this country will do anything to keep the wolf from the door,take that cash in your back pocket and keep your mouth shut,and stay below the surface of the water kid,cause if u come up the land sharks will be there looking for some more of your hard earned pie,**** this establishment and the robbing bastards that run it.

mikemac

Wow, a plasterer who doesn't have an issue with cash in hand jobs

Nothing strange there, much like a lot of tradesmen.
Often forget their receipt book too, very forgetful

Mary Hairy

k_mac wrote: »

Surely there is also an obligation on the employee to declare their income?

Not if they are PAYE employees.

plasteritup

feelingstressed wrote: »

Wow, a plasterer who doesn't have an issue with cash in hand jobs

Nothing strange there, much like a lot of tradesmen.
Often forget their receipt book too, very forgetful

the guy is paying tax on his 5 days,if it wasnt for the scum that ran the country into the ground,he probably could afford to stay at home with his kids on a saturday.anyone who makes a comment like yours is most likley sound money wise and does not have to worry about feeding his kids like most plasterers now have to.

MagicSean

plasteritup wrote: »

surely there is an obligation on our scumbag rulemakers to declare,trips abroad with the wives getting nails and hair done to,**** sake a bit of cash in hand is the ordinary blokes brown envelope,we are corrupt from the top down,this country has gone down the pan,if we see our government ripping us all off left right and up the hole,what does anyone else expect.people at thios stage in this country will do anything to keep the wolf from the door,take that cash in your back pocket and keep your mouth shut,and stay below the surface of the water kid,cause if u come up the land sharks will be there looking for some more of your hard earned pie,**** this establishment and the robbing bastards that run it.

I'm just trying to help answer the ops question. Take your rant to the politics forum.

plasteritup wrote: »

the guy is paying tax on his 5 days,if it wasnt for the scum that ran the country into the ground,he probably could afford to stay at home with his kids on a saturday.anyone who makes a comment like yours is most likley sound money wise and does not have to worry about feeding his kids like most plasterers now have to.

You don't pay tax on 5 days. You pay it on your total income.

plasteritup

k_mac wrote: »

I'm just trying to help answer the ops question. Take your rant to the politics forum.



you did not answer any question,you asked another question,to an answer.

dont tell me what to do.

plasteritup

You don't pay tax on 5 days. You pay it on your total income.[/QUOTE]



he is paying tax based on what he earns in a 5 day week,if the saturdays were declared he would not need to ask a question,again,take my rant to the politics forum,are u in a bad mood today,i can assure you my friend if we were standing next to each other you would not speak to me like that,and i doubt you would have the balls to.

AineB

Bigcheeze wrote: »

It's illegal for your employer to do this. Insurance doesn't come in to it unless you mean prsi which obviously is not being paid on your behalf.

Thanks for that.
What I meant by insurance was, if I was to have an accident in work whilst working a saturday I wouldnt be covered, the company would no doubt step in and pay up, its all a bit dodgey so just want to see what im dealing with!!

So i presume if the tax man found out they have been paying people cash in hand every saturday for the last number of years, they would have to pay the tax backdating to the start? And the employees who took the cash would be ok?

Thanks everyone!

MagicSean

plasteritup wrote: »

you did not answer any question,you asked another question,to an answer.

dont tell me what to do.

I didn't see a question mark.

plasteritup wrote: »

he is paying tax based on what he earns in a 5 day week,if the saturdays were declared he would not need to ask a question,again,take my rant to the politics forum,are u in a bad mood today,i can assure you my friend if we were standing next to each other you would not speak to me like that,and i doubt you would have the balls to.

Big scary drug dealer! I'm so scared.

MagicSean

AineB wrote: »

Thanks for that.
What I meant by insurance was, if I was to have an accident in work whilst working a saturday I wouldnt be covered, the company would no doubt step in and pay up, its all a bit dodgey so just want to see what im dealing with!!

So i presume if the tax man found out they have been paying people cash in hand every saturday for the last number of years, they would have to pay the tax backdating to the start? And the employees who took the cash would be ok?

Thanks everyone!

Well if you have been payef in full you may have to pay the paye on it. But from what you say I presume the employer gave you the after tax amount and kept the rest for himself.

plasteritup

k_mac wrote: »

I'm just trying to help answer the ops question.

there was plenty of question marks int the op.
you also state that you were trying to answer a question.

plasteritup

Big scary drug dealer! I'm so scared.[/QUOTE]


you have obviously been doing your homework,not me a friend of mine was,he has since passed away,i have done work part time over the last few years with drug addicts,never once did i state i am a drug dealer,you seem to be the type of person who likes to draw trouble on themselves,at least through a computer anyway.

darsar

AineB wrote: »

Thanks for that.
What I meant by insurance was, if I was to have an accident in work whilst working a saturday I wouldnt be covered, the company would no doubt step in and pay up, its all a bit dodgey so just want to see what im dealing with!!

So i presume if the tax man found out they have been paying people cash in hand every saturday for the last number of years, they would have to pay the tax backdating to the start? And the employees who took the cash would be ok?

Thanks everyone!

So now you can use this knowledge as your blackmail to a higher position Aine! If they refuse, spill the whole thing!

AineB

darsar wrote: »

So now you can use this knowledge as your blackmail to a higher position Aine! If they refuse, spill the whole thing!

Excuse me but thats not it at all, I wanted to know if I work on a saturday am I insured to be there if there was an accident etc, also if its legal or not to pay your employees cash in hand for the work they do. I like things to be above board, Just want to know whats what. I think im entitled to that information.

Bigcheeze

AineB wrote: »

Thanks for that.
What I meant by insurance was, if I was to have an accident in work whilst working a saturday I wouldnt be covered, the company would no doubt step in and pay up, its all a bit dodgey so just want to see what im dealing with!!

So i presume if the tax man found out they have been paying people cash in hand every saturday for the last number of years, they would have to pay the tax backdating to the start? And the employees who took the cash would be ok?

Thanks everyone!

Whether or not your employer is deducting tax properly doesn't affect insurance policies covering accidents at work.

The employer would be liable for the tax, interest and penalties. The employees would be not liable for the tax.

AineB

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Whether or not your employer is deducting tax properly doesn't affect insurance policies covering accidents at work.

The employer would be liable for the tax, interest and penalties. The employees would be not liable for the tax.

Thank you for your mature answer. Thats all I wanted to know.

Reloc8

AineB wrote: »

Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone could help me out, I have been employed by a private office based company for the past 3 years. I work the normal 9-5 monday to friday, we have to work saturdays occasionaly but we get paid cash in hand, is this legal? are we even insured to be in the office???


Thanks:)

The insurance has nothing to do with how you are paid - separate question and we don't know the answer (as already pointed out by Bigcheeze.

If you're in receipt of cash in hand and this is not reflected on your pay slip that means that you're not paying any PAYE on it, as far as you're concerned (whatever silly buggers your employer might be up to with the books).

If you're in receipt of non-PAYE income, which this appears to be, then you're legally required to declare it and to pay income tax on it.

AineB wrote: »

Excuse me but thats not it at all, I wanted to know if I work on a saturday am I insured to be there if there was an accident etc, also if its legal or not to pay your employees cash in hand for the work they do. I like things to be above board, Just want to know whats what. I think im entitled to that information.

Its perfectly legal to pay somebody using cash. The question is whether the relevant tax is being paid on it. PRSI is not your concern, its PAYE, which is income tax. People in receipt of income pay income tax on it. In a cash situation revenue are going to look at the taxpayer and not the employer as regards the responsibility to ensure compliance. Again, if your payslip is not reflecting the cash payments then you know you're not paying income tax on them.

Bigcheeze wrote: »

W

The employer would be liable for the tax, interest and penalties. The employees would be not liable for the tax.

I wouldn't agree entirely. If the employee is getting a pay slip which indicates their gross and net wage, and indicates that PAYE (also PRSI but that's not a matter for the employee) is being paid, then its not for the employee to worry about whether the employee is forwarding on the PAYE to revenue. So yes in that circumstance the employer is liable for tax, interest and penalties.

If the employee is receiving monies (in any form) that are not reflected on the payslip, i.e. the payslip understates the employee's income, and the employee knows this, the employee may be liable for tax, interest and penalties calculated by the appropriate rate of income tax applied to the sums not taxed. In such a situation the employee is well aware that the employer is not deducting income tax at source and liable accordingly.

Bigcheeze

No that's incorrect. It is perfectly clear that the OP is a PAYE employee of the employer. There is no ambiguity about the employee's status as a PAYE employee as tax and PRSI are deducted Monday to Friday. There is no requirement for PAYE employees to pay and file tax returns. The employer is liable.

Reloc8

I accept they are a PAYE employee.

My understanding is that the obligation is to declare non-PAYE income. A PAYE employee can also received non-PAYE income, in lots of ways.

As in, if PAYE has not been deducted by empoyer, its non-PAYE income. If the employee knows PAYE has not been paid (in circumstances where you're getting cash in hand) its the employee's problem.

I'm open to correction though.

bryaner

Cash is king

Bigcheeze

Reloc8 wrote: »

I accept they are a PAYE employee.

My understanding is that the obligation is to declare non-PAYE income. A PAYE employee can also received non-PAYE income, in lots of ways.

As in, if PAYE has not been deducted by empoyer, its non-PAYE income. If the employee knows PAYE has not been paid (in circumstances where you're getting cash in hand) its the employee's problem.

I'm open to correction though.

Yes the taxpayer must declare Non-PAYE income. The key point is that the cash on Saturday is PAYE income.

Just because the employer does not deduct tax does not make it Non-PAYE income.

Reloc8

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Yes the taxpayer must declare Non-PAYE income. The key point is that the cash on Saturday is PAYE income.

Just because the employer does not deduct tax does not make it Non-PAYE income.

If that is so then I am indeed wrong - I would have viewed it as untaxed income for which the individual is liable.

edit : query - does that change if the employee is willingly & knowingly accepting cash in hand on the basis that it won't be taxed ?

MagicSean

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Yes the taxpayer must declare Non-PAYE income. The key point is that the cash on Saturday is PAYE income.

Just because the employer does not deduct tax does not make it Non-PAYE income.

It is not PAYE income if it is not declared as such. It just happens to be coming from the same source as the PAYE income does.

Bigcheeze

k_mac wrote: »

It is not PAYE income if it is not declared as such. It just happens to be coming from the same source as the PAYE income does.

Wrong. Revenue would deem it to be income from an employment and therefore subject to PAYE.

Why would any employer bother deducting tax if they could could just pass on the responsibility to the employee........

MagicSean

Bigcheeze wrote: »

Wrong. Revenue would deem it to be income from an employment and therefore subject to PAYE.

Why would any employer bother deducting tax if they could could just pass on the responsibility to the employee........

So your saying that a person can work as much as they want off the books and not have to worry about the revenue coming after their money?

Mary Hairy

k_mac wrote: »

So your saying that a person can work as much as they want off the books and not have to worry about the revenue coming after their money?

the Revenue will come after the money.... From the employer!!. I know a hotel owner who was paying a barman under the table. Got caught during an audit. The Revenue inspectors had been dropping in to the bar over a period of weeks prior to the audit unknown to any of the staff or the owner. When the audit started they had all of the names of the barstaff they had seen on duty written down. Where was big Seamus on the payroll? The employer had to pay all of the PAYE, PRSI penalties and interest and refund the dole which had been paid out.