Top Graduate Programs

J77

I'm a UCD Business and Law student and attended the careers fair UCD held last week. The usual suspects were at the fair, law firms like MOP and the big four (Deloitte etc.). Anyone I spoke to seemed to be offering similar enough pay packets and benefits (nothing fantastic really), however Aldi and Lidl blew everyone out of the water with what they were offering - Starting salary of ~€60k and a fully expensed Audi A4. I've read all of the horror stories about the companies regarding ridiculous working hours and general slave treatment. I'd take all of those stories with a pinch of salt and would still consider these grad programs.
What I want to know is are there any other grad programs that offer a big salary and a decent company car? I wouldn't mind long hours if the rewards, responsibilities and practical education of running a business were all there, I'd actually much prefer this kind of busy rewarding role rather than the usual generic law apprenticeships and the programs the big four offer.

Anyone know of anything?

dan_d

Were Lidl and Aldi offering those jobs straight out to Graduates?

No offence meant here, but I don't know of a single other company offering money like that to Grads, and you're going to be sadly disappointed if that's what you're expecting.

Also, you'll learn pretty quick after a few years of work, that money is not everything - having a life is far more important.

But in answer to your question, no I don't know of any offering that kind of package to grads.

As a matter of interest, what do you mean when you said none of the other packages offered were fantastic?

Mimojo

There is a whole thread here about the aldi graduate management programme, might be of some help!

J77

dan_d wrote: »

Were Lidl and Aldi offering those jobs straight out to Graduates?

No offence meant here, but I don't know of a single other company offering money like that to Grads, and you're going to be sadly disappointed if that's what you're expecting.

Yes straight out to graduates, it raises to €86k within 3 years. Here's the link

http://www.graduates.aldirecruitment.ie/

I know the score with graduate programs, most of them are around €25-30k, but when I noticed Lidl and Aldi matching eachother's grad programs, with pay packet and even the same company car, I was wondering was anyone else offering anything like it.

dan_d wrote: »

Also, you'll learn pretty quick after a few years of work, that money is not everything - having a life is far more important.

But in answer to your question, no I don't know of any offering that kind of package to grads.

After a number of years I'd obviously want a good life balance but straight out of college I'd like a Job with a lot of responsibility that teaches you how to run a business. I'd like to be very busy and learning a lot and I'd gladly trade the ability to go out during the week or hang around in the evenings for a nice salary and a decent company car. I don't want to be another one of the pack that look for the usual grad programs that allow them to gradually step into their careers while keeping as much of their student life as possible(although I know many of the usual programs are no walk in the park), I'd rather throw myself into a big work load that demands greater rewards with quicker opportunities for progression. I'm not just looking for more money for the same work.

dan_d wrote: »

As a matter of interest, what do you mean when you said none of the other packages offered were fantastic?

I should have specified, fantastic in comparison. You've got the normal 25-30k bracket and some offer to put you through blackhall/accountancy exams. Certainly wouldn't turn down many of them but you can appreciate it doesn't stand up to €60-86k, a fully expensed audi A4, health insurance and some more benefits.

mikemac

OP, when you start your working life you'll find that a big salary isn't everything.

60k seems fantastic but if you're doing 70-80 hours a week to get it and breaking down into tears over the pressure it's not worth it.

If you can stick it out for two years or so you'll smash a lot of comfort zones you have so fantastic experience.
Read the thread linked above anyway

J77

boozelerooze wrote: »

There is a whole thread here about the aldi graduate management programme, might be of some help!

Had a read of that before posting this! Definitely worth the read, doesn't really mention what I'm looking for though.

J77

feelingstressed wrote: »

OP, when you start your working life you'll find that a big salary isn't everything.

60k seems fantastic but if you're doing 70-80 hours a week to get it and breaking down into tears over the pressure it's not worth it.

If you can stick it out for two years or so you'll smash a lot of comfort zones you have so fantastic experience.
Read the thread linked above anyway

Again, not just looking for the big salary but doubt one would make it through the job without it! I think I could hack it for 2 years to get the great experience it would give someone. I ultimately want a high work high rewards career so I think It would be one of the best ways to start out of college.

In terms of the 60k a year for ridiculous hours, (not expecting the answer to be yes here but thought i'd ask anyway) is there over time paid or how does it work. AFAIK you get the time in lieu from Aldi, not sure about Lidl though.

mikemac

Yeah, I'd say give it a go for two years.
Realy, you'll be doing everything including managing staff and you'll learn on your feet.
Great experience but be aware what you are letting yourself in for.

Do your two years and walk away! Or you'll end up with a username like mine

Your question on overtime made me laugh
And is answered in the linked thread

meathgal2010

Ok so I was attracted by Lidl's graduate programme, salary plus company car was very attractive! I applied and got invited to a group interview, you do a task as a team and they monitor you, fill out a questionnaire and complete those verbal reasoning e.t.c tests.

So two days before the interview I was talking to a friend of mine who's cousing had done Lidl's graduate programme.... I was horrified by what he told me. You literally work for every single cent of that wage. 70-80hrs a week, travelling the country. One Sunday he told me he got a phonecall from his manager to be told he was needed in a Belfast store at 7.30am the next morning and he was in Cork , so he had to leave Sunday afternoon and drive to Belfast.

You literally work in every division from sweeping the carpark to polishing the apples! He lasted 1 year before he had a complete burn out! He couldnt hack it and left. However at the time he was looking for a new job and was finding it very hard to get a job as his salary was so high with Lidl, companies looked at it and thought well he wont except any less and would never so much as get an interview.

Even after the horror stories I thought I might as well go and see what it is like for myself so went to the group interview in its HO in Newbridge. I knew after 5 mins this was not a place I wanted to work in. The management were rude, obnoxious and have no back bones.


It may look all good on paper but they find it very hard to keep the graudates they take on in this programme which suggests turn over is very high

J77

meathgal2010 wrote: »

So two days before the interview I was talking to a friend of mine who's cousing had done Lidl's graduate programme.... I was horrified by what he told me. You literally work for every single cent of that wage. 70-80hrs a week, travelling the country. One Sunday he told me he got a phonecall from his manager to be told he was needed in a Belfast store at 7.30am the next morning and he was in Cork , so he had to leave Sunday afternoon and drive to Belfast.

You literally work in every division from sweeping the carpark to polishing the apples! He lasted 1 year before he had a complete burn out! He couldnt hack it and left. However at the time he was looking for a new job and was finding it very hard to get a job as his salary was so high with Lidl, companies looked at it and thought well he wont except any less and would never so much as get an interview.

I would have no problem traveling the country, had 1-2hrs a day of commuting last year and regularly do 4 hour drives at weekends. They're not giving you the Audi A4 to leave sitting in the carpark. I'm actually looking for a job that entails alot of traveling. The thing that would actually put me off these jobs is the menial tasks that you mentioned like sweeping the carpark, thats not how I'd like to spend any of my time in my career, regardless of the money.

mikemac

J77 wrote: »

The thing that would actually put me off these jobs is the menial tasks that you mentioned like sweeping the carpark,

Lead your staff by example, no job is too menial :cool:

meathgal2010

J77 wrote: »

I would have no problem traveling the country, had 1-2hrs a day of commuting last year and regularly do 4 hour drives at weekends. They're not giving you the Audi A4 to leave sitting in the carpark. I'm actually looking for a job that entails alot of traveling. The thing that would actually put me off these jobs is the menial tasks that you mentioned like sweeping the carpark, thats not how I'd like to spend any of my time in my career, regardless of the money.

Same As I eneded up taking a job that involves country wide travel, however my travel is inlcuded within my 38 hrs a week ... not on top of, plus the company I work for at the mo would never ring me on a Sunday on my day off to say they need me in Donegal the next morning at 7.30am ... thats just taking the piss.

J77

meathgal2010 wrote: »

Same As I eneded up taking a job that involves country wide travel, however my travel is inlcuded within my 38 hrs a week ... not on top of, plus the company I work for at the mo would never ring me on a Sunday on my day off to say they need me in Donegal the next morning at 7.30am ... thats just taking the piss.

If you don't mind me asking, what company do you work for and what is your job?

dudara

A friend of mine took the Graduate job with Lidl after finishing her PhD. She lasted a year before she packed it in. As a previous poster had said, she was on call 24/7, driving the length and breadth of the country. Eventually, despite all the experience, it just became too much. I'm used to working hard, but I was amazed at the demands placed on her.

TBH, company cars are a rarity in Ireland. I work for a consulting firm, but I've spend a significant amount of time working in Brussels and the Netherlands. Company cars are quite regular there and my colleagues from our Belgian and Dutch firms couldn't believe that I didn't have a company car. It's just not normal in Ireland - I think that it's an unreal expectation on your part.

cerebus

J77 wrote: »

What I want to know is are there any other grad programs that offer a big salary and a decent company car? I wouldn't mind long hours if the rewards, responsibilities and practical education of running a business were all there, I'd actually much prefer this kind of busy rewarding role rather than the usual generic law apprenticeships and the programs the big four offer.

Anyone know of anything?

May not be quite what you have in mind, but if you think your resume is strong enough check out some of the strategy consulting firms like McKinsey, Bain and BCG... spending two years as an analyst somewhere like that is a great way to start a career if you're smart and don't mind working hard.

Very competitive to get in, only McKinsey has an office in Ireland (all three have offices in London).

Won't get you a company car, but salaries tend to be good.

IB analyst roles in London might also be worth investigating - again, you'll need a pretty solid resume.

dan_d

OP, if you want loads of money straight out, then fair enough, go for the Lidl or Aldi positions, or as Cerebus advises, check out some of the other companies.

The reason I may have sounded a bit irritated in my post is that firstly, I've done the working my ass of for 5 years straight out of college. It's absolutely awful. I worked 50+ hour weeks, for about 40k a year, with a lot of responsibility, and I've quite honestly had some of the worst months of my life...there was everything, no self-confidence, tears, sheer terror at the thought of work everyday...you've never really experienced it I'd imagine, so you don't really know what it's like. And secondly, a close family member works for Lidl currently as a manager. He never stops talking about how he doesn't have a life, his hours are shift hour, every other week is night hours. Technically he should get overtime, or time in lieu, but it doesn't work that way. He's not allowed take Christmas off - as in, he has 2 days for Christmas Day and Stephen's Day, and then back to work. It's their policy, that there's no Christmas holidays. The roster has to continue as normal. He should work a 10 hour shift 5 times a week...usually runs to 12-14 hour shifts.

To be honest OP, you'll be busy, but I just don't think you'll have as much responsibility as you seem to think you will. Most companies will treat you as a grad, which is what you are. They won't have you running the place 4 weeks in the door, it just doesn't work that way.

I know you think you want big money straight away, and lots of responsibility. But the reality is that it doesn't really work that way. And I'd also ask why you would take a job like that, when you could get something that pays less, but allows you to have proper holidays and to actually have a life.

It's just something to think about.

As a 22 year old graduate the 60K a year and car would tempt me, however as a 30 year old with 8 years experience in engineering (most as an engineer some as a sales engineer (company car job) ) I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. They aren't looking for anyone special, they are looking for someone to break their hole and give up their life. Some folks are into that, every company has a few.

Not for me.

Also, just for the OP, experience working with them will do your career more harm than good, folks mentioned how people find it hard to get interviews with other companies presumably due to companies reckoning they won't work for less. Companies don't think like that and know exactly why someone working in Aldi / Lidl wants out. It screams desperation, get me out of this hole.

Best of luck if you apply but they'll probably give the job to someone with experience rather than a fresh graduate.

J77

dan_d wrote: »

To be honest OP, you'll be busy, but I just don't think you'll have as much responsibility as you seem to think you will. Most companies will treat you as a grad, which is what you are. They won't have you running the place 4 weeks in the door, it just doesn't work that way.

I know you think you want big money straight away, and lots of responsibility. But the reality is that it doesn't really work that way. And I'd also ask why you would take a job like that, when you could get something that pays less, but allows you to have proper holidays and to actually have a life.

It's just something to think about.

There's a year of training before you get your area. I don't think anyone, anywhere would expect to be put managing 4-6 retail stores within a month!

I'd really like to stress here that it's not money I'm after, it's practical experience, particularly experience I could apply to running a business of my own.

As for a lesser job with more free time, I view my beginning years of my career as I used to view to Leaving Cert - get in there, commit as much as possible and get the most out of it I can. I didn't start the LC thinking I have to maintain a decent social life and that's not how I'm going to start my career. If I can only take 2 days off for christmas in a particular Job, I don't care, once I'm doing what I want to do for my career.

I'm not dead set on doing the Aldi/Lidl grad programs but I think they'll remain in consideration. I've heard alot of the horror stories about them but I've heard horror stories from just about every kind of grad program/grad job! For instance Investment Banking. I know a guy who did IB in london and he said he once had to work through the night and was expected to start at 9am for a full days work again. Competition is fierce for Law/accounting programs but many grads who opt for those are left with ridiculous workloads and long hours (and most don't even get near €30k).

I can definitely see that the Aldi/Lidl grad scheme are probably looking for disposable managers though, I'm not in denial about that.

I don't think there's any easy grad program for someone looking for a highly successful career. All the usuals entail hours of boring, unfulfilling and hard work with little reward and see you following the pack on what is likely to be a decent but slowly progressing career.

I'm probably coming off as optimistic to the point of foolishness with some of you guys who are a bit into your careers but I'm gonna aim high with my grad career and not let my optimism get crushed before I even begin!

I appreciate the advise though guys. As you said dan_d, I haven't properly experienced grad life yet so it's good to hear from people who have. You don't know what its like to get burned before you get to the fire!

cerebus

J77 wrote: »

I've heard horror stories from just about every kind of grad program/grad job! For instance Investment Banking. I know a guy who did IB in london and he said he once had to work through the night and was expected to start at 9am for a full days work again.

Only had to work through the night once? He must have had a back-office job... Seriously, IBs will work you hard in any front-office role - I had a couple of IB MDs in pitching some stuff today, and I'm pretty sure their analysts were working multiple nights getting the pitchbook together.

Some general thoughts for you (my opinions only, so don't take them as fact). The kind of career you seem to be interested in will require lots of hard work. And it never stops - every time you move up to a new level you find yourself working/competing with other smart people who can perform at least as well as you. If you want to move into these kind of roles I would make sure you are comfortable with the commitment required (and it sounds like you are, so good for you).

It also sounds like you are interested in running your own business at some stage, which will often require lots of sacrifices (though in this case at least you will be the one extracting all the economic value from your efforts). Make no mistake, most startup or established CEOs will tell you that it is a 24/7 job. Either way you're committing yourself to working hard.

At the same time, working hard with a team of other high-performing people is pretty empowering - lots to recommend it.

Some other ways to frame your job search/decision-making might also be helpful. For example, if you feel that you can succeed at the level required for these types of high-performance roles you should be able to out-perform most people in typical grad programs... many companies structure incentive and bonus schemes to reward high-performers, so if you take a longer-term strategic approach and position yourself correctly you could find that a few years into a grad scheme that you have differentiated yourself and are being compensated accordingly.

J77

cerebus wrote: »

Some general thoughts for you (my opinions only, so don't take them as fact). The kind of career you seem to be interested in will require lots of hard work. And it never stops - every time you move up to a new level you find yourself working/competing with other smart people who can perform at least as well as you. If you want to move into these kind of roles I would make sure you are comfortable with the commitment required (and it sounds like you are, so good for you).

Spot on!

cerebus wrote: »

It also sounds like you are interested in running your own business at some stage, which will often require lots of sacrifices (though in this case at least you will be the one extracting all the economic value from your efforts). Make no mistake, most startup or established CEOs will tell you that it is a 24/7 job. Either way you're committing yourself to working hard.

Spot on again! While on placement this summer in a multinational Plc, I realised that even though there are great benefits to working for a company it's just not for me. Even though it would mean sacrifices and the fact that it would be a 24/7 job, it wouldn't stop me because I'd be building a business of my own and doing all of the work for me, not an MD. I do think that I'm going to need the best experience I can get before I start my own company though and the best place to find that will be in some sort of management or consultancy grad program.

meathgal2010

J77 wrote: »

If you don't mind me asking, what company do you work for and what is your job?

Work for a mulitnational electronics company as a product trainer, so invloves travelling to retail stores every now and then

Tony Sopranoe

What are the other well paying graduate programmes out there?

x43r0

Tony Sopranoe wrote: »

What are the other well paying graduate programmes out there?

Most of the banks pay well and offer good structure and training in their programs

freeze4real

x43r0 wrote: »

Most of the banks pay well and offer good structure and training in their programs

x43r0 you work in an investment bank a question is this,

who do the banks want financial economist or investment banks or IT staff thats programmers etc.


I have been to the websites of stock brocking firms and all they seems to want are co puter programmers with their logarithms caculations and codes.

x43r0

freeze4real wrote: »

x43r0 you work in an investment bank a question is this,

who do the banks want financial economist or investment banks or IT staff thats programmers etc.


I have been to the websites of stock brocking firms and all they seems to want are co puter programmers with their logarithms caculations and codes.

I came in through the IT stream which is healthy enough in terms of intake - Our graduate closing date for next years intake is the end of this month FYI

What I would say about IT here is that given the size of the place, the term IT ranges quite a bit from programming to the least technical of stuff like business analysis so those who might not consider themselves strong enough in the technical aspects of IT shouldn't be put off applying. I did a computer science degree and a business masters but I'm in a business analysis role. Haven't programmed a single line here

My understanding of going in on the business side (Financial stuff) is that you need either top marks or better yet, top marks from a really good Uni

freeze4real

My background is more of the finance/economics side but I am thinking of learning programming during the summer and taking a programming course for 1st years at UNI.



Hopefully it helps

Thanks for the info.

x43r0

freeze4real wrote: »

My background is more of the finance/economics side but I am thinking of learning programming during the summer and taking a programming course for 1st years at UNI.



Hopefully it helps

Thanks for the info.

I'd say go for it. Our grad class has all sorts of degree disciplines

closeline

Good ones at the moment in IT?