MA1057: Physics & Maths

Leavenotrace

Hey quick question is the MA1057 module: Abstract Algebra a good indication of the rest of the material covered in the physics and maths degree?? or is it completely irrelevant

KnifeWRENCH

Well I've manged to do the degree without ever having done MA1057. I would say it's a good indication for a few modules but not all, so not really indicative of the course as a whole.

3rd Year Ring and Field Theory (MA3052) and 4th Year Group Theory (MA4051) would be the modules where MA1057 would be most relevant. Calculus and Analysis (MA1054) is much more important, because after 2nd year analysis becomes hugely important.

Richard Cranium

Leavenotrace wrote: »

Hey quick question is the MA1057 module: Abstract Algebra a good indication of the rest of the material covered in the physics and maths degree?? or is it completely irrelevant

Absolutely not. I really don't know why Des McHale won't just say this. When I did this module last year he was hell bent on getting us to appreciate abstract maths in its own right, being a pure mathematician to the bone. However he would have had a much better response from the class if he had just mentioned that pretty much every module that comes after this one will reference set theory, partitions, different sorts of functions (injections, surjections and all the rest) and/or groups, rings and fields. And even if they aren't explicitly mentioned, you might spot them anyway. It's definitely worth paying attention to (and I'm only in Financial Maths, I'd imagine that it becomes even more useful if you go down the Maths/Physics route).


Also it is interesting enough, in fairness...

Leavenotrace

Ah right so theres no escaping it? were ye as lost after 3 weeks as i am now :P Have no clue whats going on Des just tends to speak really quickly and by the time you realise what he was saying he is on the next topic

MoogPoo

I think it is kinda what maths/physics is like. Well the physics modules are the same as the ones you'd do in the straight physics degree. If you do the joint maths one though a lot of it is similar to abstract algebra. Im in third year of it now and its kinda similar to modules like ring and field theory and anaylsis 2.

Most of the maths modules are kind of abstract and you need to be able to apprectiate how you define axioms and deduce everything else from that. I don't think you can really appreciate that class fully because its hard to see how things like set theory and stuff is related to other topics and its not really clear how important it is. I think most of the maths modules in maths/physics are like that too.

Linear algebra is abstract too and most of the theorems in the notes are very general. Like in first year you have to brute force learn definitions like kernel and image and properties of transformations. Then in second year we began to take concrete examples and they give the definitions more meaning and you can see why those definitions were necessary. But I think that mathematics in college is like that because you need to build up a repetoire of definitions and theorems learning them by rote so that you will have enough basics learnt to start using them. In school everything in maths was understandable and you didnt need to learn things off. But for college maths I think you just need to learn things off until you know enough to be useful. Then eventually you can see how they all relate to different topics. I really did like abstract algebra still though, it was probably my favorite module in first year but it's impossible to really have a solid understanding of it to be honest.

Leavenotrace

Well then if all maths modules are like this is there any escape from it :P or will each of the degree programmes for physics rely on abstract maths

Richard Cranium

Leavenotrace wrote: »

Ah right so theres no escaping it? were ye as lost after 3 weeks as i am now :P Have no clue whats going on Des just tends to speak really quickly and by the time you realise what he was saying he is on the next topic

After 3 weeks, I hadn't a clue. But when the Christmas test comes closer and you actually have to sit down and go through the definitions and everything properly, it makes more sense. Then during the study month when you, again, sit down and go through the material in depth it will make more sense again. A lot of people were worried about Abstract Algebra in my class but in the end the exam was handy enough.

MoogPoo

Richard Cranium wrote: »

After 3 weeks, I hadn't a clue. But when the Christmas test comes closer and you actually have to sit down and go through the definitions and everything properly, it makes more sense. Then during the study month when you, again, sit down and go through the material in depth it will make more sense again. A lot of people were worried about Abstract Algebra in my class but in the end the exam was handy enough.

yeah same for my year, you'll probably get to like it after a while though... The pure physics, chemical physics or physics/applied maths wouldn't have much maths like that at all really. You'll probably start liking it after a while.

Leavenotrace

After 3 weeks, I hadn't a clue

You'll probably start liking it after a while

Ah right so i feel more assured now, I suppose its just so different from anything we've done before like.

Cheers Lads i was thinking of dropping it but i just might stick with it now

MoogPoo

yeah sure its good to keep options open in first year anyway. you'd have a better idea which physics route to do next year then. Id say just do maths/physics next year if you preffered the MA modules or do applied maths/physics if you liked the AM modules. You'll have a better idea anyway later, best of luck with it anyway.

Leonard Hofstadter

As the others have said, it is important for anyone going on doing Maths Science or Maths/Physics.

Of no benefit whatsoever to FMAS people though, apart from the Analysis modules in 2nd year and 3rd year, than again I don't see any benefit to doing Analysis either for FMAS.

I thought it was interesting from a purely mathematical point of view though, and Ring and Field Theory not to mention Group Theory are of course branches of Abstract Algebra. You'll get to them later on in the course.

Maths in school and Maths in college are two completely different things, as you've probably realised OP. I loved school Maths because it was really like what Applied Maths is in college in that you're solving problems rather than thinking about and proving abstract concepts.

Really Maths in school should be called Appled Maths because that's basically what it is - a practical application of core Mathematical concepts.

I think it's very important to say that if you find Calculus even slightly difficult you might as well quit now and do another degree, it really is that important to understand because it is used in Maths, Applied Maths, Stats, Financial Maths, Actuarial Science, Physics, Economics(especially Financial Economics) and I'm sure other Sciences use it as well. I found MA1054 easy but I know a lot of people have failed it, MA2071 is a piece of piss though.

KnifeWRENCH

captainspeed wrote: »

MA2071 is a piece of piss though.

MA2071 is a glorious module! Highest result I ever got in college.

Leavenotrace

Of no benefit whatsoever to FMAS people though,

I'm not in maths science I'm in physics


Friggin love calculus though

Leonard Hofstadter

Leavenotrace wrote: »

I'm not in maths science I'm in physics

FMAS refers to Financial Maths and Actuarial Science, which you can chose in 2nd year if you entered 1st year in CK407, that and Maths Science are two completely different things.

MA1057 as discussed previously has a lot of relevance for anyone doing Maths Science after 1st year.

I don't know if they do MA2057 Number Theory any more(I heard that's not thought these days) but that is yet another follow on course from MA1057. Number Theory rocked, it was my favourite bit of Abstract Algebra!

KnifeWRENCH

captainspeed wrote: »

I don't know if they do MA2057 Number Theory any more(I heard that's not thought these days) but that is yet another follow on course from MA1057. Number Theory rocked, it was my favourite bit of Abstract Algebra!

I don't think they do. When I was in 2nd year I think there were only 4 people in that class. (I didn't do it because I'm Maths/Physics rather than Maths Science.) But I think Number Theory was only offered to people who did more Maths credits than Applied Maths credits. But most people in Maths science pick equally many credits in Maths and Applied Maths afaik, so I guess the module had too few people to justify continuing it.

I think they replaced it with Discrete Mathematics, which is the equivalent of the 3rd year Graph Theopry course.