Non-Turbo Diesels?

I Was VB

Just wondering is there any car manufacturer that makes a non turbo diesel? The only one i can remember is the Bora SDi circa 00's.

I have one myself from '94 and yea its slooooooow but i know its never gonna breakdown or blow a turbo.

And alot is asked from diesels these days, have to be on par with thier petrol rivals and just as quiet.

Thoughts?

colm_mcm

THe fabia and cordoba used the sdi till later.

An avensis td is pretty indestructible

Eric Cartman

my peugot van was 1.9 non turbo , they made the non turbo diesel up to 2004 afaik

Stephen

I think the Almera had a 2.0d without turbo up to 2000 too. Plenty of 1.9sdi VW Caddy vans around too.

kasper

citroen xsara 1.9 , probably the same unit as the peugeot mentioned earlier

Green Hornet

They must have been very down on power. I had a relay issue on my 2.2 once and the turbo was stopped from working by the engine management system until the fault was cleared and it was really useless to pull. Really bad.

kasper

Green Hornet wrote: »

They must have been very down on power. I had a relay issue on my 2.2 once and the turbo was stopped from working by the engine management system until the fault was cleared and it was really useless to pull. Really bad.

i would think the gear ratios in a car with a turbo would be much more different than a car without a turbo , so when your turbo wasnt working you were at a disadvantage

Ferris

Merc c220 D and 250 D had no turbos. And they'll run on cooking oil as they're indirect injection. Completely bulletproof, a friend of mine has one with 250k on it and it runs like a dream. Slow however.

GTE

VAG had the 1.9 SDI and then I thought I saw or heard of 2.0 SDI's.

The 1.9 SDI is meant to be bulletproof.

slimjimmc

kasper wrote: »

citroen xsara 1.9 , probably the same unit as the peugeot mentioned earlier

Ah, the old XUD9 indirect injection engine, came in normally aspirated or 1.9D turbo versions and used across the PSA range. Fantastic engine for the era back then.

Low Energy Eng

surely the mpg are much greater on a turbo diesel

GTE

Low Energy Eng wrote: »

surely the mpg are much greater on a turbo diesel

That is the case with the 1.9SDI vs some of the 1.9TDI's.

Seweryn

Ferris wrote: »

Merc c220 D and 250 D had no turbos. And they'll run on cooking oil as they're indirect injection. Completely bulletproof, a friend of mine has one with 250k on it and it runs like a dream. Slow however.

The C220 will not run on cooking oil for to long without problems. It has the wrong injection pump (rotary type, made by Lucas) which is also electronically controlled. The 250 one is a different unit and it can burn anything - my friend said today that it can be run on "potato juice" , whatever it is .

Seweryn

Green Hornet wrote: »

They must have been very down on power.

It depends on the engine. If you have a small one, then yes, it would be down on power. The OM606 Diesel made by Benz in early '90 is a lovely machine. It has 3 litre capacity, 6 cylinders in-line, twin cam, 24 Valves (first multivalve Diesel engine), it revs up to whopping 5,450 rpm (as far as I know the fastest revving Diesel engine) and it produces reasonable 136 hp without a turbo.

Damien360

Eric Cartman wrote: »

my peugot van was 1.9 non turbo , they made the non turbo diesel up to 2004 afaik

I thought the pug diesel of that era was a 1.8 non turbo. I had a 306 diesel with no turbo years ago which was awful. The M2 out of belfast in the direction of derry was out of it's league. Had to keep to 4th and keep the power on to get up the long, long hill climb.

Skuxx

I had a '03 Berlingo that was 1.9 non turbo and it was slow as anything on this earth, maxed it out at 91mph but that took an awful long time to get to!! The engine was the most reliable part of that f*cking van tho, everything else broke my heart but the engine just kept going!

ORACLE2

Peugeot did both a 1.7 ltr and a 1.9 ltr non turbo diesel 205 van years ago,a friend of mine had a 205 1.9 version for a few years and it was a fairly nifty bus,I think the size and lightweight of the body of the 205 helped overcome any lack of power the diesel engine may have had in comparison to a petrol unit.

Sikie

Volkswagons head of powertrain confirmed in a recent interview in automotive engineering that all their diesel engines across their full range will be turbocharged this year as the last non-turbo appplications are phased out. The next step for VW and all other car companies are petrol turbo engines across their main stream engines again VW is leading this with their TSI

Absurdum

I drove a 1.8 non-turbo diesel Ford Escort for a few months in the late 1990's, I think it had 59bhp from the factory but felt more like 10bhp, it was painfully slow. I drove from Dublin to Galway and back several times in it, eventually I had to give in and replace it because it was too dangerous to overtake anything quicker than a tractor in it.

Tea 1000

I Was VB wrote: »

Just wondering is there any car manufacturer that makes a non turbo diesel? The only one i can remember is the Bora SDi circa 00's.

I have one myself from '94 and yea its slooooooow but i know its never gonna breakdown or blow a turbo.

And alot is asked from diesels these days, have to be on par with thier petrol rivals and just as quiet.

Thoughts?

I bought a bike with the new government scheme! Great deal. Never breaks down, easy to maintain, uses zero fuel, zero emissions and it's quicker than N/A diesels! Cheaper too, even brand new!

bazz26

Toyota Corolla was available with a Peugeot sourced 1.9d non turbo unit from around 1999 to 2001 afaik.

Ferris

Ferris wrote: »

250 D had no turbos. ................ Completely bulletproof, a friend of mine has one with 250k on it and it runs like a dream. Slow however.

The one I had was on 230,000 ish when I had her, ex taxi so may well have been more really I suppose calling a spade a spade. Slowest thing ever, they won't hold 60 in 5th on a decent slope. The auto versions are absolutely terrible to go from what the folks on the owners forums say. Couldn't imagine anyone being overlyhappy with their purchases back in the early 90s after buying one new for whatever they cost. A 1.0 106 would have marginally better performance. Nice buses though, you'd like them just out of respect for their longevity.

chiefwiggum

we had a 2003 golf 1.9 sdi...absolute rubbish performance...wouldnt pull you out of bed and terrible for climbing hills(live in wicklow) very sluggish...cant remember fuel economy so it mustnt have either good or bad

When the ole lad drove a hackney years back there was a 1.7 Vectra nasp in the base. Asking passengers to get out wasn't unheard of on steep city hills (Cork is fairly hilly, a few of those black cabs from the UK were tried here years back but the hills made them useless really)

bazz26

RoverJames wrote: »

When the ole lad drove a hackney years back there was a 1.7 Vectra nasp in the base. Asking passengers to get out wasn't unheard of on steep city hills (Cork is fairly hilly, a few of those black cabs from the UK were tried here years back but the hills made them useless really)

That's the same heavily modified Isuzu lump that is in the current Astra afaik. They are fairly robust to this day.

bazz26

bazz26 wrote: »

That's the same heavily modified Isuzu lump that is in the current Astra afaik. They are fairly robust to this day.

Savage engine Sh1t slow without the turbo though.

galwaytt

Citroen Saxo 1.5D is a non turbo iirc.......

unkel

RoverJames wrote: »

Asking passengers to get out wasn't unheard of on steep city hills

LOL

In the Cork mountains???

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

The one I had was on 230,000 ish when I had her, ex taxi so may well have been more really I suppose calling a spade a spade. Slowest thing ever, they won't hold 60 in 5th on a decent slope. The auto versions are absolutely terrible to go from what the folks on the owners forums say. Couldn't imagine anyone being overlyhappy with their purchases back in the early 90s after buying one new for whatever they cost. A 1.0 106 would have marginally better performance. Nice buses though, you'd like them just out of respect for their longevity.

Apparently they do have a quite a bit potential if you give them more fuel from the pump, and can still pass the NCT emissions. Adjusting the pump would have been a simple diy job, obviously too late for you as the car is long gone.

There are many reasons why the there are no N/A diesels anymore, but I think the main one is Euro IV and higher emission standards. Diesel need lots of air (very lean mixture) to burn cleanly and to accomplish this turbo is needed. Also for the EGR to work properly the exhaust manifold has to be at higher pressure than inlet, and to accomplish that a nice restrictive turbo is handy to pump up that exhaust manifold pressure without sacrificing too much power.

Also the old indirect engines were more rev happy and burned cleaner without ridiculous amount of air, so ok without turbo, but not as fuel efficient as DI engines.

samih

samih wrote: »

Apparently they do have a quite a bit potential if you give them more fuel from the pump, and can still pass the NCT emissions. Adjusting the pump would have been a simple diy job, obviously too late for you as the car is long gone.

Yeah, would have been interested in doing that if I kept her, only had her 3 months. An increase in fueling and boost on a Rover diesel I had years back made a huge difference. Don't know if the pump on the 250 lent itself to fettling though, I know one on the 300s did though.

250 and 300 diesels (and 200D in the continent) all have similar Bosch pumps, apparently the adjustment screw is accessible via removing a back plate of the pump.

Those old Merc diesels have some serious rpm and power headroom, especially the turbo version of OM606 that Seweryn mentioned:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUppvE8zSdM

See the rev counter here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ54sjAjNdg

Matt Simis

Sikie wrote: »

Volkswagons head of powertrain confirmed in a recent interview in automotive engineering that all their diesel engines across their full range will be turbocharged this year as the last non-turbo appplications are phased out. The next step for VW and all other car companies are petrol turbo engines across their main stream engines again VW is leading this with their TSI

Worked for VW long?

Sikie

Matt Simis wrote: »

Worked for VW long?

Never, just the Bora was mentioned earlier and the point I was making referencing the article was directionally a non-turbo diesel engine is becoming a thing of the past

highlydebased

alan1990 wrote: »

I had a '03 Berlingo that was 1.9 non turbo and it was slow as anything on this earth, maxed it out at 91mph but that took an awful long time to get to!! The engine was the most reliable part of that f*cking van tho, everything else broke my heart but the engine just kept going!

Thats why they are called Barelygos!

Seweryn

samih wrote: »

Those old Merc diesels have some serious rpm and power headroom, especially the turbo version of OM606 that Seweryn mentioned:

See the rev counter here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ54sjAjNdg

That is unbelievable . The good thing about these OM60X Diesels is that they do not have the red line on the rev counter .
I was actually mention the OM606 normally aspirated, which in my opinion is well up to the job and is capable of pushing the car (saloon version) up to 200 km/h. Not bad for a naturally breathing Diesel . And they sound just lovely...

whiterebel

Early 90's Corollas and Carinas were non-turbo. I had a Pug 306 that was NA as well. Quite a few Volvos seemed to be NA 1.9Ds. Had the Peugeot partner version of the Berlingo too. Original Laguna was 2.2D as well. back when God was a kid, I managed to put petrol into a 2.5D Fiat Mirafiori of all bloody things. Diesels were hardly heard of back then, never mind allegedly sporty Fiats.....:(

Blue850

I spoke to the owner of an old W115 Mercedes 220D , it had 60 bhp, he was from west Cork and on some hills it was 1st gear only...
same colour has this one


What sort of power did the 1.0 Daihatsu Charade non turbo diesel have?