Having mixers in the red

electrogrimey

Straight off, I want to explain that I know it's wrong, and that you should always be in the green, and maybe clipping the yellow at the loudest point.

But, nearly every gig I've done, when I was playing with other DJs, I've got up to the decks and had the mixer running deep into the red. A lot of the time, if I don't have access to turn up the amp, I'm forced to play in the red, because I can't turn myself down after the DJ before, or it'll pretty much clear the floor.

Is it just me or do way too many DJs play like this? What do you do in this situation?

seannash

electrogrimey wrote: »

Straight off, I want to explain that I know it's wrong, and that you should always be in the green, and maybe clipping the yellow at the loudest point.

But, nearly every gig I've done, when I was playing with other DJs, I've got up to the decks and had the mixer running deep into the red. A lot of the time, if I don't have access to turn up the amp, I'm forced to play in the red, because I can't turn myself down after the DJ before, or it'll pretty much clear the floor.

Is it just me or do way too many DJs play like this? What do you do in this situation?

Grimey it could be a laptop dj issue.i think cds and vinyl are louder than the output of your software.

joker77

I haven't done a whole lot in clubs, but from DJing at parties it's always the way that the fella (or girl) on before you has the mixer in the red. It's that, in my opinion, a lot of DJs haven't a fecking clue about sound engineering.

Used to wreck my head, but within a track or 2 you can get it back down to the green. Then again, at house parties, I'd usually have access to the amp. If there's a sound engineer in the club, you can coordinate getting the levels right with him, unless he's a cock.

I'm a bit OCD about levels though, maxed out green the whole time not touching the yellow is where I like to get it, and you can easily tell the difference listening back to a mix.

Logical Fallacy

seannash wrote: »

Grimey it could be a laptop dj issue.i think cds and vinyl are louder than the output of your software.

LoL, not at all. Anytime i have taken to the booth after a vinyl DJ it can be well in the red.

Some people are just volume junkies and want to push things as loud as they can. I have friends who are very experienced vinyl DJ's who are guilty of this.

I have other friends who are very experienced DJ's who understand part of that skill is finding the awesome balance between a nice present volume and inflicting ear damage on the crowd.

I've gone back to back with people on vinyl and i'm playing out from Ableton and never had any noticable change in the volume levels from track to track but then i am clever enough to get the balance right in the soundcheck.

ED E

Not gonna name names but on one occasion I've seen a sound system in a club(/"club complex") that was so underpowered that the DJ had to go way over what he should have and was clipping very noticeably all night. This is rare in my experience though.

Another place near me that recently closed had every AMP(5 or 6) in the red all night every night.

With my own rig I always keep an eye on the amp, sometimes get a red flicker at the crescendo of a track but other than that its all green.

bildo

These days on an average night it's not uncommon to have DJs playing both CD decks, vinyls, laptops, drum machines and all sorts of effects. This makes it really difficult to have persistent sound throughout the night as all of these will have varying outputs. If you've good decks vinyl should usually put out the most volume and a more full range, especially in comparison to mp3 cds. Sometimes redlining decks is pretty unavoidable. It shouldn't matter if you've someone on the amps who knows what they're doing however.

electrogrimey

seannash wrote: »

Grimey it could be a laptop dj issue.i think cds and vinyl are louder than the output of your software.

Well I use CDs half the time too, and it's the same thing.

@Joker Do you just slowly take down the volume until it's back in the green, and do it slowly enough for no-one to notice? Maybe doing this and telling the sound guy somewhere in between is the best way...

bildo wrote: »

These days on an average night it's not uncommon to have DJs playing both CD decks, vinyls, laptops, drum machines and all sorts of effects. This makes it really difficult to have persistent sound throughout the night as all of these will have varying outputs. If you've good decks vinyl should usually put out the most volume and a more full range, especially in comparison to mp3 cds. Sometimes redlining decks is pretty unavoidable. It shouldn't matter if you've someone on the amps who knows what they're doing however.

That's what the gains are for though tbh, if a laptop plugs into the mixer it should be easy enough to match the volume of the CDs/vinyl.

jtsuited

I take a stand and kill the music in whatever way I can, and then get everything back into healthy levels. A clean signal will sound louder than a clipped one, no matter what the meters say.

If you can't play with a clean signal without hearing conversations at the bar, well you're playing the wrong places.

Jev/N

The problem is that if you have the amp up to a respectable level, some eejit is going to come up to the decks and turn the mixer and/or gains up more just because they want to, not because they need to, and then you've the possible issue of damage to the speakers

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

I take a stand and kill the music in whatever way I can, and then get everything back into healthy levels. A clean signal will sound louder than a clipped one, no matter what the meters say.

If you can't play with a clean signal without hearing conversations at the bar, well you're playing the wrong places.

It's nothing to do with the place, I'm talking about places like Pod, the Button Factory, and the Twisted Pepper. The thing is, as great as taking a stand and shutting of the music to get the levels right is, it's going to clear the dancefloor completely, which is worse than having the music clipping.

unclebill98

If your feeling the need to run your mixer in the red then your doing nothing more than ruining the quality of your sound. The difference I've found with getting the balance right between my mixer input to output to amp levels right has given me overall, a nicer sounding system.

Its nothing to do with CD/Vinyl or laptops etc, you should be able to set your level on the mixer inputs to get the right level. You should be able to have your mixer at unity and the venue should have there system set to make this sound good via there system.

I've no club experience, but I'd imagine the need to push your mixer into the red has a lot to do with the club, they've spent lots of money on their system and they do not want someone with no idea ruining there system. I'd say multiple DJ's on the one night can play havoc with the sound in a club!

I had a DJ at a wedding telling me he uses the red leds to beat match.....

was.deevey

While resident in a Dublin bar ... I set up my gear, set my master at 3 o'clock and there was virtually no volume coming out of the speakers ..

When I asked the bar manager could he turn up the amps I was told "turn up your mixer ... thats what the other DJ's do"... when I said I didn't wanna run into the red I was told "the other dj's sound ok to me"

Thankfully I had a relatively clean sounding mixer, but was pretty screwed with low volume records...... Yick!

Interesting post on the subject of the never ending volume wars .. more to the point why it happens

http://www.djtechtools.com/2010/05/16/dj-essentials-trust-the-levels/

joker77

electrogrimey wrote: »

@Joker Do you just slowly take down the volume until it's back in the green, and do it slowly enough for no-one to notice?

Slowly - as I say - over a track or 2. For me it's similar with pitch - if I came on directly after someone that was playing faster/slower - I'd take a couple of tracks but get it back to where I wanted it - of course if this is what the dancefloor wanted. Last thing you wanted is huge changes in either

joker77

unclebill98 wrote: »

If your feeling the need to run your mixer in the red then your doing nothing more than ruining the quality of your sound. The difference I've found with getting the balance right between my mixer input to output to amp levels right has given me overall, a nicer sounding system.

Its nothing to do with CD/Vinyl or laptops etc, you should be able to set your level on the mixer inputs to get the right level. You should be able to have your mixer at unity and the venue should have there system set to make this sound good via there system.

I've no club experience, but I'd imagine the need to push your mixer into the red has a lot to do with the club, they've spent lots of money on their system and they do not want someone with no idea ruining there system. I'd say multiple DJ's on the one night can play havoc with the sound in a club!

I had a DJ at a wedding telling me he uses the red leds to beat match.....

Doesn't surprise me though

maximusnow3

I've have mixed vinyl,CD's and laptop and yeah there is a need to adjust the gains as some tracks can be louder than other. Running in the red just ruins the sound, as others said full green and if the track hits it a slight yellow. Whatever bar/club manager that was to say turn up the mixer just shows his comprehension of music and the effects of what he advised, these clubs with big sound systems and there been mismanaged by incompetent managers or unknowledgeable sound engineers.

ED E

What saddens me is the damage thats being done to good expensive gear because of idiots that do this.

maximusnow3

I'm with you on that Lethal Bullet

was.deevey

Hear Hear (no pun intended) ...

What pi$$ed me off with the bar manager in my case knew that I'd worked in pro audio for 7 or 8 years and still was not letting me near the amprack .. ah well all was good by christmas when the owner got a lil sauced and the amp volume myteriously got very high and never returned to its lower level ever again. :P.. red lining the mixer was a thing of the past.

Trick I used to use if playing with "known" red liners was taking the knob off the mixer before a gig and re-adjusting it back a few notches so it "looked" like the gain was almost up full whack.. worked about 50% of the time dependent on the mixer.

On that note why dont manufacturers just limit the amount of gain on a master fader buy leaving ummm I dunno the last 10% covered by metal ? so its impossible to get that far into red zone ? Always bugged me that ?

Engineers .. turn up them damn monitors, problem solved

bildo

was.deevey wrote: »

On that note why dont manufacturers just limit the amount of gain on a master fader buy leaving ummm I dunno the last 10% covered by metal ? so its impossible to get that far into red zone ? Always bugged me that ?

Engineers .. turn up them damn monitors, problem solved

The newer pioneer mixers are great for this, the bass and treble knobs go down 20 db but only up 6db. Brilliant way of keeping control of rogue djs.