Knife laws in Ireland? Can multi tools be illegal in public places?

Deedsie

Hi, I hope this is in the right place. I am currently researching and intend to purchase a leatherman multi tool, probably a wave or charge tti. In researching it, I have noticed that it is against the law to carry such a knife in public places in the UK.

I was wondering is there similar legislation over here?

seamus

Revelant statute is in the Firearms & Offensive Weapons Act 1990:

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
[GA]

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.

Overall it's fine to carry a knife in a public place if you have a reason to do so that doesn't involve stabbing people

Evil Phil

^^ What the seagull said. If you're coming down off a mountain or out of the woods a leatherman isn't going to be a problem. If you're drunk on O'Connell street and starting fights, they'll arrest you.

eoinkildare

I would also recommend that if you're in your car you keep any blades or possible weapons in a tool box or seperate carrier rather than leaving them in the door compartment beside you or something similar. while it might seem innocent to you, one never knows what situation they might find themselves in and next thing you know, there's a guard after searching your car and finding a knife beside you. while you might have a good defence for the judge in court, its a lot of hassle that could have been easily avoided.

NathanKingerlee

If you want legel protection in a public place, just carry an ice-axe or walking pole! Don't think there's any legislation for those two instruments of damage!

tricky D

The legislation is not specific. This is done on purpose so a Garda has discretion to decide whether the object is intended to be used as an offensive weapon. This can apply to a wide range of objects which includes ice-axes, walking poles, pencils, crucifixes.......

Gillo

tricky D wrote: »

The legislation is not specific. This is done on purpose so a Garda has discretion to decide whether the object is intended to be used as an offensive weapon. This can apply to a wide range of objects which includes ice-axes, walking poles, pencils, crucifixes.......

You forgot "mother in law" or better still a disgruntled ex.

You'll be grand op, once it's safely stowed away you're not gonna get in trouble.

fergalr

seamus wrote: »

Revelant statute is in the Firearms & Offensive Weapons Act 1990:

9.—(1) Subject to subsections (2) and (3), where a person has with him in any public place any knife or any other article which has a blade or which is sharply pointed, he shall be guilty of an offence.
[GA]

(2) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
[GA]
8
(3) Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (2), it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove that he had the article with him for use at work or for a recreational purpose.

Overall it's fine to carry a knife in a public place if you have a reason to do so that doesn't involve stabbing people

I don't like this state of affairs, and I particularly don't like it in the context of the occasional talk about 'mandatory minimum knife crime sentencing' that you hear.

I think that a bad person that uses a knife in a fight should definitely have the law come down hard to them; knives are dangerous things, and taking one to a fight is fairly heinous behaviour.


But I don't like that simply carrying a knife shifts the burden of proof onto the person carrying it.

I don't drive to the hills, I tend to cycle there, or maybe take the bus, because I don't usually have sufficient reason to own a car.

While most of the time I wouldn't carry a knife, if I was going camping, I'd have my pen knife, to prepare food, do campcraft stuff etc.

While I can't think of any reason I'd be stopped by a Garda, I don't like that if I was stopped and searched the burden of proof would then fall on me to provide a reasonable defence for why I had it, even if I was just minding my own business, not involved in any misdeeds, etc.
I'm sure this isn't something to be worried about; its just not legally ideal to me, because it essentially means you have to prove you haven't committed a crime.

I guess I just think its sad if society is in such a way that the reasonable assumption for someone carrying a knife is that they are up to no good; because when I'm carrying my penknife to go camping, its like one of the most innocent and wholesome things you could probably be at!

seamus

I don't think your standard penknife would fall much into this. I know people who carry swiss army kits around 24/7 - they have a general utilitarian purpose, even the penknife part.

You would want to already be in trouble (i.e. arrested for public order offences) for a Garda to start causing you hassle about a penknife tbh. If this were a different country, I'd tend to agree with you about someone automatically being in trouble for carrying a knife, but thankfully we have a system which allows for the benefit of the doubt all the way up to prosecution, at which point you have to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
So the scope for being unjustly convicted over this is very small. In reality, you would want to be carrying a 3 or 4 inch blade in your pocket while heading on a night out to get into trouble. Carrying a small blade in your bike bag as an emergency tool would (IMO) qualify as a "recreational purpose" of a blade. If you are packed for camping, I don't think you'd have a tough time explaing an 8 inch hunting blade either, provided that you're not playing with it on the bus!

To a certain extent, you need balance the freedom of the citizens against their protection. The idea that anyone could carry a blade and is only guilty of an offence when they use it against another person would equally scare a lot of people into saying that our laws are too relaxed and crimes are never prevented, only punished.
I think the above statute is a relatively good balance between the two - yes, it does shift the burden of proof onto the citizen, but it equally allows a Garda to carry out a lawful arrest if they suspect someone intends to commit a serious assault, even if the citizen ends up not being charged in the long run. I would prefer that 100 people are wrongfully arrested and inconvienced than a single person ends up stabbed and bleeding to death because the Gardai were powerless to intercept his attacker.

Deedsie

Ok, I have another question. If I get someone to buy a Leatherman multitool in the US and have them post it to me. Is there a possibility the knife could be stopped in customs and confiscated? I understand it can be stopped until vat is paid on it. I'm more concerned about the legal issues surrounding posting knives from the US to Ireland?

ArtSmart

Only if found in a bank boardroom

Deedsie

ArtSmart wrote: »

Only if found in a bank boardroom

So you are saying there is no issue in a private seller in america posting a knife to me?

Donny5

Deedsie wrote: »

So you are saying there is no issue in a private seller in america posting a knife to me?

You should be okay. I've bought knives from the US before, although the Customs Duty + VAT hit means it's hard to get good deals.

ArtSmart

Deedsie wrote: »

So you are saying there is no issue in a private seller in america posting a knife to me?

LOL. no, I'm sayin a bank boardroom is is a likely place to find multi tools (though it's not a public place) IOW, i'm making with the jokes. Sorry for the confusion.

DonnchaMc

Does a multi-tool qualify as a penknife? Would a gaurd consider a multi-tool ok for everyday carry (and I just mean normal practical use) as easy as they would a penknife