My 16 year old little sister is suicidal

LegacyUser

Dear Boards, I'm going unregged for this as it's so personal. I would really appreciate some advice and I don't know quite where to start.

My little sister is suicidal. She's in a psychiatric unit and has a review next week with a view to sectioning her for 6 weeks.

I guess this started about 4 years ago when there was a huge disruption in her life and she suddenly had to move country & language. It started with eating disorders, I always felt that because she couldn't control anything in her life she controlled her body. Things have been bad and good over the 4 years, always culminating in a crash and trip to a an institution around this time of year. Something to do with the summer off and then back to school. She's 16 now.

Backround: Her lovely mum died 8 months ago after a very short illness and she has been bad since then, she's been in the current place for 4 weeks and she says she wants to kill herself. She's never been so blatant about it before, never so honest and I'm worried.

Truly I don't think she is depressed enough to actually kill herself but yet I think she is down enough to try. I have no idea what to say to her, a huge part of her depression before has been about wanting attention so I don't want to feed that but I want to help. The most upset she got when we were talking was when I asked what if she didn't kill herself, what about the future and I told her about what it could contain and she begged me to stop. She hates her shrink because she says he wants to help her and she says she doesn't want any help because she's going to die.

I know no one can fix her, but could anyone tell me what to say and what not to say?

Novella

She's a sixteen year old girl and her mother died, and you're pinning her being depressed on attention seeking? Nice. Maybe what'd be really helpful is if you could try be a tad bit more understanding. Even if she always was attention seeking in the past, I think it's pretty reasonable for someone to experience a difficult time after the death of such a close relative.

Tbh, I don't know what you should say. Sometimes it's not what you say at times like this, it's simply being there and just being there because you want to be, because you want to help.

Y'know, this advice probably isn't helpful at all. What I'm trying to say is, being a sixteen year old girl isn't easy at the best of times. I had really rubbish teenage years, so while I wasn't in the exact same position as your sister, I think I might get it and all of that time, I wanted more than anyone someone to just hold me and love me. Do that.

AvaKinder

I guess the key thing I picked up on was you saying that her depression is about wanting attention. When I was sick as a teenager nothing was worse than someone saying to me that it was about looking for attention. It's a cry for help, not attention IMHO.

Her looking for 'attention' as you put it, is a way of drawing peoples attention to the fact that she can't cope with how she feels. I always hated when people said look to the future because to me, no matter how good the future could be it wasn't worth going through the pain I was in at the time. Or at least thats how I saw it.

I guess the only thing you can really do is to keep reassuring her that you are there for her no matter what, you will love her no matter what, and that her death would destroy you and that you won't forgive her for leaving you. She needs to know that people love her and her death would hurt you all too much.

At the end of the day, she is the only one who can pull herself out of this. She needs to want to get better. But knowing she has your unconditional love and support can only help.

beks101

OP your sister is a child. She hasn't developed the coping skills that come with maturity and experience and she's dealing with life's difficulties in the only way she knows at the moment.

God knows when I was sixteen I hadn't gone through half of what your sister is going through and yet I spent much of that time feeling lonely, confused, depressed, insecure - it's really a difficult age and on top of that she has had to deal with a complete upheaval from everything she knows and the loss of her mother. My heart goes out to her.

She needs you now more than ever and it is your responsibility as her sibling to be there for her in whatever way she needs. That will mean sometimes telling her how much you love her and how much you need her in your life; sometimes it will be talking about her mother and how much you both miss her; sometimes it will mean simply taking her out to the cinema or taking her shopping and having a laugh, allowing her to escape the misery that she's enveloped in at the moment.

The last thing she needs right now is your judgement - I know it can't be easy for you either, and I understand completely what it's like to feel angry and disappointed in a sister, but if you judge her now and make her feel bad about her predicament, you're only going to push her further away and send her deeper into her depression.

Best of luck, I hope things improve for you both very soon x

dan_d

OP what did you tell her about the future that made her beg you to stop?

And when she said she's going to die, what did she mean? That she's going to kill herself, or that we're all going to to die anyway?

I think OP, you firstly need to tell her that you're there for her, that you love her more than anything because she's your little sister, and that you couldn't bear for her to do anything to herself.

I just don't know what else to say really, but maybe you should start be consistently telling her that. Don't talk about the future.She needs to learn to live in the now, and try and be happy with herself in the now.

Think about the position she's in. She's 16, and while all the other 16 year olds she knows are enjoying life, she's been frantically trying to figure it out. She has an eating disorder. There are obviously control issues there, she feels that she can't control some aspect(s) of her life. She's probably wondering endlessly why everyone else is normal and she's not. And then her mum died. So on top of everything else, she's now in a sea of grief, where there just doesn't seem to be a point in going on. And she's in this unit. Her life probably can't get any lower to her, and the only way for her to still feel she has control over it, to get herself out of it, is to feel she can kill herself. Because let's face it, what's the point?

I'm no psychologist, and I've no doubt there's far more than that going on, but I'd imagine some of that is the tip of the iceberg. So concentrate on the now with her. Don't worry about the future and don't let her worry about it. Sometimes all you can do for people is be there. And yes, she is attention seeking, but it's not the kind of attention seeking that you see from most kids. It's a desperate cry for help from a child who is totally and completely lost and can't see how on earth she will be able to go on. I've heard that those who say they want to kill themselves, are those who are asking for help, asking to be stopped. It's those that say nothing are the ones who are most likely to actually do it. Whether this is true or not I don't know, but the best thing you can do for her is be there. Talk to her about the good things in life, about how, when she gets out, you'll go to places with her, where you'll go on holidays when she's better. Make it a certainty, not an if - "you will get better/when you feel better".

Like I said, I'm not really sure what else to say, but hopefully that helps.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies, sorry if I didn't get it across properly it was very late when I posted.

The phrase 'seeking attention' obviously has poor connotations, I should have more accurately described it as she is clearly in very serious trouble and can't cope so needs attention to try and fix what's wrong, it wasn't meant as a harsh judgment, just a simple description. She's threatening suicide, not sulking in her room, I completely understand how desperate and serious the situation is. I was trying (badly!) to be abstract so I could tell the story.

I appreciate the advice, it's what I've always done, just been her normal sister. I take her shopping, we go to the movies, and I try and explain how horrific it would be to lose her. But this is year 4 and she is so much worse after losing her mum, she has always been troubled but she is now in an institution about to be sectioned affirming that suicide is the only option. What makes it worse is we live in different countries, I've offered her a home here but it's a no go with our father. I feel intensely helpless being so far away.

She says she hates her shrink, that seems so wrong to me, shouldn't she at least like her shrink? Wouldn't it make sense for her to find one she can actually communicate with? It seems like the most basic need, a professional she can feels she can trust.

The future I told her about wasn't complicated, just her going back to school to do her exams, moving over here, living with us and going to uni. I was trying to show her a different future, what there was to lose if she killed herself. She's terrified of failure, we, her siblings, are relatively successful and her mum had such huge plans for her (she's to be an international model, then Oxford to study medicine, then marry a wealthy man and live in paris). She's afraid she won't be good enough, I've reassured her we adore her and it doesn't matter who she is or what she does, and that she can be anything she wants to.

She is saying she is definitely going to kill herself, that when she gets out that's it. It's truly impossible to know what the hell I can do.

Which I guess is why I posted here!

LegacyUser

Not reg wrote: »

What makes it worse is we live in different countries, I've offered her a home here but it's a no go with our father. I feel intensely helpless being so far away.

She says she hates her shrink, that seems so wrong to me, shouldn't she at least like her shrink? Wouldn't it make sense for her to find one she can actually communicate with? It seems like the most basic need, a professional she can feels she can trust.

She's terrified of failure, we, her siblings, are relatively successful and her mum had such huge plans for her (she's to be an international model, then Oxford to study medicine, then marry a wealthy man and live in paris). She's afraid she won't be good enough, I've reassured her we adore her and it doesn't matter who she is or what she does, and that she can be anything she wants to.

Can you come home to her for a while, take some time off? Having you around might help. If she hates her shrink that much then maybe you could look in to finding her another, one with experience of eating disorders etc? She needs someone she can talk to that she feels comfortable with and trusts. I know there will be rebellion against anyone who tries to help her but if she could meet a professional who she could communicate with it might help.

Those plans her Mom had for her stick out, God that kind of pressure would drive me insane and I'm a pretty strong person. Her Mom had all these plans for her and she died before your sister ever got to achieve them, in her mind she must feel like a complete failure and that pain of never being able to prove herself to her Mom as she sees it must be crippling. Forget this whole 'she can be anything she wants to' stuff, right now all you need to do is get her to want to live. That means each day waking up and getting through the day, forget the future for now, take each day one minute at a time til she gets to a point where she can even see a future for herself again. Right now talking about the future and Uni etc is just more pressure.
Be there for her, let her know you love her more than anything and that even now as messed up as she is she means the world to you, that she is worth of love and is important.
Is there anything that she loves/loved to do, something that she does only for herself, for the sheer enjoyment of it, not to make anyone else happy. If you can think of something like that maybe gettting her enjoying life again.
I wish you and her the best. The poor pet it must be very hard on her to feel so hopeless.

LegacyUser

OP, take everything I say with a pinch of sale because I'm biased but...

I ****ing hated my shrink too. When I was 16 I was suicidal too. Now I was sent to a shrink who instantly put me on meds. But that just made things worse. Had a reaction to the meds, had to be pulled off them, and had to get an MRI, EEG, to ensure there was no permanent brain damage. When I got the all clear I was put on different meds, and had an even worse reaction to them, they amplified the symptoms and caused me to revert back into myself a hell of a lot more. Those meds were subsequently banned from being administered to U18s within about a year or two of me being pulled off them. And to make matters worse, I subsequently found out that the dose I was put on was considered an extreme dose for adults. So be very wary of what the medical profession says about your sister, most of them haven't a ****ing balls notion of what they are taking about when it comes to the mind.

My advice is try to get your sister to help herself as much as possible. At the end of the day a psychological illness like depression is an internal thing, and the only person who knows your sisters thoughts best is herself. She's going through a very tough time, but everyone does at some point in their life and they eventually get over it. I truly believe that what the medical profession does in relation to depression is wrong. They isolate the individual, tell them how broken they are, lower their confidence even more and try to patch over the cracks with with the largely unkown effects of psychotropic drugs. Keep a close eye on your sister, but at the same time give her the space to make her own decision and figure things out for herself. Give her access to resources but try not to force them on her unless absolutely necessary, and if absolutely necessary always get a second or third opion.

There are two things I strongly recommend looking into if you haven't already. Cognitive Behavoural Therapy is one (although I'd be surprised if you haven't come across it already, David Burns "Feeling Good" is a good place to start) and the other is Jon Kabat Zinn's concept of "Mindfulness" ("Full Catastrophe Living", or "The Mindful Way through Depression"). In a nutshell, what you sister needs to do is actively engage with her own cognitive processes, to essentially see how irrational they are and take control of them, and nothing has helped me do that better than those two (well, another is Eckhart Tolle, but that's more New Age and not for everyone). It's taken well over 5 years, and I still have some pretty dark days, but I'm much more in control of who I am now.

Oh and does she play any sports? Excercise is fantastic for the body and mind. I don't think there's any coincidence in that my depression reached it's peak around the same time I had a serious knee injury that prevented me from excercising regularly for about 3 years. It's always been mentioned as an afterthought in much of the literature I've read, but in my own experience its impact cannot be underestimated!

LegacyUser

I am surprised that your father does not seem to care more. He should. Does he know the full extent of how bad she is feeling, and how seriously ill she is. She obviously needs to be with family at this stage, and if she has no family in the country she is in, she needs to come home. Shame on your father if he does not change his mind on this. Show him this thread and let him know how concerned you are.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

Im sorry if this sounds harsh but i feel the need to be brutally honest for the sake of your sister. It sounds like she has had a horrendous time of it, her father doesnt sound like he has a very strong bond with her and now her mother is gone, does she even have a friend in the world? How is it OK that a 16 year old is in an institution on her own in another country??

It sounds like her past is the cause of her depression, if her father has rejected her and her mother died this is absolutely the worst trauma anyone could suffer, is there any responsibility taken by your father for his part in all this?

TBH if i was your sister i would feel suicidal too like what hope does she have with no family or support? I know this must be incredibly difficult for all involved and im sure your intentions are good but you do not sound like someone easy to speak to about personal problems going on how you have judged your sister, maybe your family keep their emotions to them selves and are not very expressive but your tone seems very cold as if you cant see that we are talking about a child here? She seems to be dumped with a lot of responsibility for her age, like if her mother just died why is your Dad not there for her and comforting her?? why are you not getting onto your father to step up and take care of his responsibilities it seems to be left on you to sort out, as if he doesn't even care???


It just brings a tear to my eye to think of her over there trying to cope with no real family around her or support. Its so tragic.

If you are not prepared to go the whole hog and support her fully, eg facilitate her needs, give her a roof, support etc then i dont know why you bother even calling her a sister? You asked in your first post what should you say to her, but if all your prepared to offer is a distant see you a few times a year relationship then maybe you should leave her alone, because it doesn't sound like you are true family???

Look im sorry if this is very judgmental without knowing all the facts but the way you have spoken of your sister is very cold and insensitive and very upsetting, maybe you and your DAd are the ones with the issues, you dont seem to have any awareness about depression at all.

LegacyUser

First off thank you to everyone who has replied, I really appreciate your responses.

Miss unreg: God I wish I could, unfortunately I work and cannot take any more time off after taking 2 months off at the start of the year to take care of her while her mum died so there's not a chance I can take another day. I'm over every 4 weeks as it is. I guess the shrink is an area that can be looked at.

Been there: Thank you!You're who I was really hoping to hear from posting here, someone who had been through what she's going through and come out the other side. Unfortunately I have no control over any of the medical/legal side of things as our father is her guardian.. I wish I could get her to help herself, but she gets so upset with me I daren't try. She is just saying she wants to die and there is nothing to live for, I can't get through that or don't even know where to start. I know what you mean about sport, I wish she had anything she loved to do but she's just a normal teenage girl, she likes boys and music.

Redbutton: Sorry I wasn't clearer, she lives with our father in the UK, he's the one making the decisions. He's not an evil man, but a hopeless parent. Technically she is with family, but not in the surrounded by people who love her sense of family.

dontgiveupbunny: As I just explained to redbutton I'm sorry I didn't make it clear that she does live with our father, she's in an institution because her shrink says she is not safe, she agrees, dad agrees, so she's in one. I agree it's horrific but it is very much not my decision. She has loads of friends, a close group of 5 and then lots of others, After that you go off course, why the hell would I post here if I didn't adore my sister? I adore her, she adores me, I'm her favourite person. I stated earlier that I have offered her a home, I've tried many times to persuade our father that she would be far better coming to live with me but to no avail. If our father was an amenable, responsible man I would not be posting on boards. You have completely misread the situation.

I've been thinking about why I posted this, the kind wishes towards her are very nice to hear, the abuse pretty much expected as this is anonymous, what can this discussion give me so I can help her? What I would really appreciate is does anyone have any idea how to respond when someone says they want to kill themselves? I am just left terrified and blank every time she says it..

seaniedearg

tough going

orchidsrpretty

Hey OP, It must be really distressing for you and your family to see your beloved sister having such troubles in her life. I can only offer some words which I hope you will give some consideration. I am going to make some assumptions here please do not be offended by any of them.

Ok first off: Suicide; I'd like you to understand we all make mistakes in life, it is how we all learn, it is why they have easerers on pencils etc., but taking ones life is the only mistake in life we cannot undo or try rectify. Your sister needs to understand this.

There seems to be great pressure on your sister to succeed at the highest level, for such a young person to realise these aspirations cannot be easy. Youth do not have the same grasp of time passage as say a OAP. She thinks that as soon as she has finished her schooling she must achieve these things almost immediately (within 2-5 years) which is a big hurdle if your only 18 and expected to achieve what seems like an infinite amount in less than a quarter of her life to that date (i.e. her 18 birthday). Simply put she is not enjoying her teenage years as her life seems planned out for her, and if she fails she will have achieved nothing and she probably cannot visualise her achievements expected of her. She has doubts of her ability, and when she realises this she probably needs some attention so she can feel loved/accepted/self worth etc. and is not getting it at home (to be butally honest, (dont kill me)) we all love attention, in my eyes those who complain about attention seekers are envious. We all love people who listen and understand us, with similar ideas and opinions in life. Sometimes the silence between two people is worth more than 10,000 words spoken.

My advice to you, if you accept is to try find an object/toy which your sister cherishes from childhood or something similar, i.e. a yoyo, doll, pogs, a tamoughci or what have you, but here is the secret do not give her this object directly place it near her on a table, and introduce another object that you have an interest in and share it with her. It might sound silly but you have heard expression the grass is greener on the other side of the fence she might be initalially attracted to your object, but later/(after you leave maybe) she will pick up hers and this will bring back hopefully happy memories of childhood. Also next time you see her, give her a hug and kiss ask her if she is ok and wait for her answer, another kiss /hug, dont talk about her not being well, look out the window and comment on view or have a drink and offer her some, be responsive to her body language. if you see her looking at a guy comment on him to her "he's /fugly/hot/you could have him/you could do better etc.", interact with her and let her know she is loved so she knows what love/happiness is, because i sense you have alot of care for her and she is insecure about life at the moment, you have to show her some security, hence the toy mentioned above. If you really feel up to it make her a special promise and do your upmost to keep it come hell or high water you do it. i.e. Take her to her future home city, paris for christmas!

beks101

Excellent post from Beenthere - definitely worth taking this advice on board OP.

On the one hand, being the age she's at and the nature of her illness, I think a certain rebellion or resentment of her shrink is not necessarily uncommon. However, it's important that she has a voice in all of this, as otherwise it's going to impact hugely on her self confidence and recovery.

Just something I think would be worth considering is psychotherapy. She's obviously at a critical stage where medication is necessary. But personally, I've an older sister with a mental illness who, like Beenthere, never benefited at all from the conventional course of treatment in the mental health system. Med' d up to the nines, numbed from her illness to all intents and purposes and her recovery was ultimately sabotaged as a result.

Things didn't start to change until we found a good psychotherapist who finally allowed her to talk about what
was going on in her head without any judgement, pressure, expectation or anything and her meds have been able to be reduced as a result.

First and foremost, your sister needs someone to just listen to her,to allow her to talk about how she's feeling, a safe place to sieve through the issues in her head and cry and shout and scream if needs be. A good psychotherapist will allow her to do this.

And in relation to what you should say to her when she says she wants to kill herself. Just let her know you understand and hear her; acknowledgement that she has been heard is key. Saying something like 'don't be ridiculous' could be the worst thing you could say.

I think all you can say is to tell her how much you love her, tell her you are always there for her and although you hate to hear her say it, you will always be there to listen.

Maybe you could set up a regular time to call her a few times a week, same days and same times, and every time she says she wants to kill herself, ask her to make a verbal contract with you that she will call you again at your scheduled time as usual.

Anyway I hope your sister starts on the road to recovery really soon. To be honest I'm touched by your love and support for her, which is so evident from your posts.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

This is very upsetting, and sad that your father is not helping more, in my experience if someone is suicidal and depressed the family really need to get involved in understanding why and where the depression comes from,

it seems you are the only person she has and this must be a big pressure for you. I think the best thing you could do would be to go and see a therapist yourself, the support and guidance you will get will be invaluable, we can give advice from afar but you need support on it and time with someone who can really understand your situation,

therapists have a wealth of information about suicide and depression, would you consider going? We did this ourselves when my brother in law was suicidal, the rest of the family couldnt handle it but with the advice and guidance we got we were able to really take command of the situation and know what to do, our brother wouldnt leave his room and was blocking out any emotions and started developing ticks and wouldnt speak or eat, and was totally suicidal,

the mothers response was he needed to go to spain and get a holiday and she forced him on a plane to spain on his own for a week! when we found out he was gone we nearly died thinking he wouldnt come back! he ended up sleeping rough completely disorientated, my point is that some people just do not know how to help people who are depressed and they dont understand why they cant just snap out of it, but it was only when the family changed that he changed, and i feel that your sister would really benefit from a family member who knew how to deal with depression,

we ended up telling him one crucial day that if he didnt come with us now that we would have to physically remove him and bring him to the clinic we had set up with a specialist, he then went once a week and started therapy and medication, he still hates the therapy and plays games with the therapist as if he is the enemy, for some reason he doesnt see that they are trying to help.

It is now 5 years later and our brother is a million times better, the family eventually understood where we were coming after initially feeling threatened by our tactics from the therapist but we felt our brothers life was at stake and we had to do something. To see him with a smile on his face today just brings a real tear to my eye.

I really think for her to change the family or close people in her life needs to come together and start communicating on it and setting up a system, you can get advise on how to do that from the therapist, maybe your Father will get involved if there is a plan set up too, i think this is the best way to go forward...... very hard to know how to handle something so big on your own!

I wish you much success and i will send healing light her way! .... LOVELIGHT xoxo