Trans Siberian Railway - winter

Whitehawk

Hey, going on the Trans Siberian Railway around start of Dec. and going to Vladivostok, was just looking for any points on it feedback places to see places not to see tips and where ever else anyone has to say on it. ever where to get the ticket ! im looking and getting it from http://www.realrussia.co.uk/

hope someone else has been on it that can help

Jimmy81

if you haven't already then check out www.seat61.com
Excellent site and gives really good info on the Trans-Siberian.

Whitehawk

ya ill have a look at that thanks.

insinkerator

brave man, going in winter! It'll be freezing

Out of interest, what class are you travelling by? 1st 2nd or 3rd?(Cant remember the Russian names for them)

I have read a in a couple of places that 3rd is kind of unsafe for your belongings, as you have no privacy, but in a guys blog i was following, he says that 3rd is the only way to go if you want to meet people, assuming you get a top bunk bed, and not a bottom bunk (beds are used as seats during the day..)

Whitehawk

ya its going to be cold but winter is ment to be the best time to be there! (so im told lol) ya im going 1st for most of it [long parts] and 2nd the odd time. as im traving with a mate so in 1st we will have our own room and the cost is not that much more then you factor in winter and comfort

Civilian_Target

You're crazy. Do you have any idea how cold -30C is... on a train? You'll have to have a naggin of vodka in you just to go outside. It sounds miserable TBH.

Whitehawk

more like -20! and there set up for that kind of cold, train is ment to be warm! or so im told...

RATM

Go first class for sure, there'll be iceicles in 3rd for sure

Would also advise buying your tickets when you get there, many agencies charge at least double of what the fare actually is.

Whitehawk

ya prob with getting the tickets there is that to get a visa you need that kinda stuff booked before you can even aplie for da visa

markok84

Hi,
I got the trans Siberian from Ulaanbaatar to Moscow this summer and I thought I would share my experience with you. We had to get a transit visa for Russia in Mongolia. In order to do this we needed both the train ticket and proof of our onward journey to satisfy the Russian embassy in UB.

We intended on getting an onward train from Moscow to Britain via Belarus, Poland etc. and finally back to Ireland via the ferry but unfortunately we couldn't book our onward train ticket over the phone in Mongolia (not being able to speak Russian being the problem). So we had to settle for a plane from Moscow to Berlin. (although we found out after we had booked our flights of a way of getting around having to show legitimate flight confirmations at the Russian embassy, this would have given us time in Moscow to get our train tickets and our Belorussian visa.)

The train ticket we purchased in UB cost $200 per person, which is quite reasonable when you consider it's a 5 day journey covering over 7000km. We were quite naive when we got the train and didn't really research it at all!! But to be honest that made the trip all the more fun, because the train from UB to Moscow is mainly used by Mongolian smugglers bringing cheap Chinese clothing (among other items) into Russia!!

During the first 8 hours of the trip smugglers frantically ran about the train's carriages swapping their goods with other smugglers. It would seem that each smuggler is in charge of one or two specific items, be it Mongolian blood sausage, denim jeans, fake Prada handbags etc etc. So naturally their luggage is bursting with only their item(s), in order not to alert the Russian custom control they distribute the items around the train so that everyone is carrying a mix of items. Of course we were also asked to partake in the smuggling caper and we duly obliged, stuffing the odd pair of Reebok tracksuits into our already over packed luggage. (it did help however that we were nicely merry on Korea's finest Hite Black Stout at the time )

The border crossing itself took almost 10 hours and was not very comfortable, as the heat on the train was unbearable, especially when you're wearing three pairs of tracksuits under your clothes!! Once the border crossing was over (and of course it passed without a hitch) the Mongolians again set about redistributing the items back to their rightful owners, I noted at least two main guys that are obviously the brains behind the operation who carried a detailed notebook of who was carrying what in each cabin. Suffice to say we didn't get much sleep the first night as our cabin was all go!! The time we spent with our fellow cabin mates made us empathise with their plight however, in fact one of them was a secondary school teacher in UB during the week. Every Friday she would leave UB for Irkutsk, sell her wears at the local markets and then get the train back home before her visa ran out the following Monday morning.

The smuggling operation itself didn't stop at Irkutsk, all stops up until Moscow were availed of by the smugglers to sell their goods either out the train windows for the brief stops, or on the platforms for the more extended ones. The Russians themselves flocked to the train to buy these goods, denim trousers being the most sought after item. I counted one guy selling over 20 pairs in under 10 minutes. I myself sold a plasticy leather jacket thingy, out our cabin window for 500 rubles, of which 100 was my commission (about €2.40).:cool:

The Cabin itself was very comfortable even though it slept four in such a confined space. I think there is something really comforting about being rocked to sleep by the movement of the train. It did get pretty cold at night however and this was at the beginning of September, so you will need to bring thermal underwear and maybe an additional blanket or something (You are supplied with a woolen blanket and some sheets to line the bed with). I ended up having to sleep with my head to the door as we left the window ajar at night so as not to gas the two ladies in our cabin with the noxious fumes produced from the Hite we had been consuming. This of course didn't work and after the third day they moved into the adjacent cabin which had become free!!

The scenery is truly fantastic though, and is well worth the price of the ticket. If I were you I would try get a tourist visa for Russia through the embassy in London, to do this you'll need a letter of Invitation, you can get these online or alternatively use a company like visafirst to sort the whole thing out for you. This way you'll be able to buy your train tickets in Moscow or St. Petersburg -wherever you plan on leaving from- and it'll be a lot cheaper than using a tour operator to get them for you. There were some operators in Mongolia quoting $800 for the UB to Moscow route, this included the transit visa for Russia but that's still well over twice what we paid. The transit visa is $80 for a 4 day process and $130 for a 1 day process.

With regards disembarking the train along the way, we heard 'stories' of westerners going missing in the woods around Lake Baikal and never turning up again but as with all 'stories' we heard on our trip they can all be taken with a grain of salt. If you choose to get off the train and explore I'm sure you'll have a brilliant time, and the scenery around Baikal and Irkutsk did look pretty impressive, obviously just make sure your ticket allows you to do so before you get off.

Of course you'll be travelling in the complete opposite direction to how we traveled but I reckon you will have the better experience if you stick to the cheaper tickets, and you will meet some pretty wild characters.

Every carriage has a hot water dispenser so bring lots of things you can add hot water to, like pot noodles etc. because the food in the restaurant carriage is overpriced and vile. You should probably bring your own tea bags as well as we found the attendants were very mean at handing out tea bags to us, they don't really cater to the Irish appetite for tae!

In the mornings and evenings a Russian lady from the dining car would parade up and down the train selling 'billycheese' (sp?); basically pastry parcels about the size of a cornish pasty filled with either potato and cheese or meat similar to a cornish pasty. They were 30 rubles which is about $1, and were pretty tasty. They weren't on offer in the dining car itself though.

The restaurant carriage does serve beer but again it is overpriced. I would recommend you bring your own beer on board (if you're a drinker of course) and lots and lots of vodka. A deck of cards helps pass the time in the evenings when you're not gonna see much out of the windows, teaching fortyfive to foreigners proved to be quite the entertaining pass time.


I highly recommend getting this train and it's something I'll be doing again in the future. Hope I didn't rattle on too much..

Whitehawk

that was a gr8 read thanks for taking the time to post that,

re the border crossing why where you wearing three pairs of tracksuits under your clothes!?!

re the restaurant carriage- was the menu in english? as i have read conflating info on this hole area of the train lol

and one last thing re seating - is there like open areas where you can walk down to and seat - play cards and drink one of your "own" beers :P

markok84

Whitehawk wrote: »

that was a gr8 read thanks for taking the time to post that,

re the border crossing why where you wearing three pairs of tracksuits under your clothes!?!

Well that was all part of the smuggling operation, we were only obliging one of the women in our cabin (she had about 100 pairs of tracksuits). The border itself for us was a breeze, the Russian customs only gave a cursory glance inside our cabin, benefits of an Irish passport!!

re the restaurant carriage- was the menu in english? as i have read conflating info on this hole area of the train lol

No the menu was completely in Russian, so it helps to familiarise yourself with the Cyrillic alphabet before you leave. It's actually not too bad once you know the alphabet as it's very phonetic and a lot of the words sound similar to their English counterpart. I'd also recommend get a decent pocket Russian phrasebook and one of these The central Asian countries especially love the point it book.

and one last thing re seating - is there like open areas where you can walk down to and seat - play cards and drink one of your "own" beers :P

The only open area for us was the dining car at the back which was attached after the Russian border. It's empty most of the time so you can go down and enjoy a game of cards without being pressured to buy food (there is of course the risk of leaving your stuff unattended in your cabin while your gone, I'd recommend carry on you what you can't afford to lose). I didn't venture as far up the train as the luxury cabins so I can't comment on their arrangements. The only problem I had with the dining car other than the price and quality of the food was that I'd say it had been a few years since anybody washed the outside of it, meaning the view out the windows was quite obscured.

Edit: I'm not too sure about drinking your "own beers" in the dining car, but I'm sure if you get friendly with the restaurant women they wont mind at all. We had one visiting our cabin on a regular basis for vodka top ups!!


For me the most frustrating part of travelling is the language barrier, I've now got a copy of the Russian Rosetta stone and hope to have some level of understanding of the language before I return. If you do plan on exploring Siberia, I'd recommend Novosibirsk and Barnaul. The Altai region around Barnaul it's truly spectacular.

johnp

We did the Transmongolian from St Petersburg to Beijing via Mongolia last year. I'd highly recommend hitting Ulan Bataar and going out to Terelj NP, it's an amazing place in the summer, although I dunno about the winter
I have read that the trains are well heated during the Winter, but I'd be packing the thermals for the train stops. It's nice to stretch the legs whenever the train stops, and pick some food and stuff. Then again, dunno how many babushkas will be out selling their wares in -20 degress

We bought our tickets from realrussia.co.uk too. We were kinda on a tight timeframe so there was a lot of to-ing an fro-ing with emails to them to get it the way we wanted, but it all worked out brilliantly in the end. I almost 100% sure it cost more than if you just go to the train station and buy the ticket, but we couldn't take the chance that we'd miss a train. We booked everything and then picked up the tickets in Moscow. Their office is a little outside the city, but still on the underground.

Dunno what 3rd class is like, security wise, but I'm sure if you take the usual precautions you'll be fine. We were 2nd class all the way. Cabin with 2 bunks. Got to meet some nice locals along the way. And sometimes between the 2 of us, we had the cabin to ourselves.

There is a bigish thread about this from before with some tips and tricks, I'll try and find it........

EDIT: here ya go

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055522566

jackbhoy

Whitehawk wrote: »

more like -20! and there set up for that kind of cold, train is ment to be warm! or so im told...

It was about -20 when we were on it and I wore flip flops and t-shirt for entire trip. If anything it was too warm (often close to 30 degrees).

I would highly recommend 3rd class. It's cheaper, safer and way more craic than 1st or 2nd. Also, you'll pay at least half the price if you buy ticket at station rather than via agent.

Make sure you jump off when train stops and buy food from women on platforms, it's way better than anything you'll get in dining car and is a fraction of the cost.

podgeen

hey

I did a similar trip in December 2009. Coldest I experienced was -45 in Mongolia but everywhere is prepared for those temperatures so its OK. The trains are warm as were any hostels that I stayed in. I bought my tickets for each leg of the journey along the way. I met some other travelers who had booked via an agency from their home country and in some cases they had paid 3 times the price for the same ticket as me. If you are short on time i.e. you are trying to fit this trip into a work vacation then it might be worthwhile paying the premium and booking through an agency.

Take a look at my blog for details about the trip, there should be a post with the ticket prices somewhere there too.
http://www.theinternetisclosedforwinter.com/2009/12/buying-russian-train-ticket-when-no-one.html

Whitehawk

cheers gr8 info,

and ya ill have a look at the info on the blog.

thanks again

Ideo

thanks for the post podgeen. planning the trans-mongol myself so it was useful to get some info on the prices etc... cheers!

podgeen

no bother. if you have any specific questions just ask here or via PM. I got some help from some guys on boards this time last year when I was thinking about my trip (i won't say planning as it wasn't really planned )

dolliemix

Lucky you!

I did this trip to Beijing three years ago in the summer. It was fantastic. I'd love to do it in their winter time. I'd say it would be a real adventure.

I booked everything in advance with Trailfinders. Nobody really speaks English so you're better off having as much tickets, accomodation etc organised beforehand.

I second the poster who said to make sure you get a top bunk. I did 2nd class most of the way and it was fine. You've no privacy in third class. I did it for a night.

Food that you buy off the local women at the platforms is yum. Lake Baikal was really stunning and Irkuttz is a cool city/town.

Good luck with the planning. I found the most challenging experience was getting the visa in the first place from the guy in the Russian Embassy in Dublin. Don't mess with him! It really is a case of Russian Roulette as to whether he'll give you a visa that suits the dates you want to fly out on!

podgeen

I disagree on having everything booked in advance. I spoke no Russian, Mongolian or Chinese and I gone by without any difficultly. Plus for me part of the fun/adventure, the interesting situations and some of the more interesting people that I met was a result of having to buy my own tickets! I suppose it down to personal preference. For example I took 3rd class from St Petersburg to Moscow (8 hours overnight) and was on the top bunk, for the rest of the trip I took second class. 8 hours in such a confined space with zero privacy was enough for me, I couldn't imagine doing it for 4 days yet I've met lots of people who have done the trip 3rd class and recommend it. So as I said its personal preference.

As regards hostels if you are staying in hostels then you can book them online with hostelbookers or hostelworld. At the time I traveled hostel bookers was the cheapest. I just booked the hostel the same day I booked the train ticket.

For Visa's I had no problems getting the Russian or Mongolian Visas (unlike other posts on boards) but I had problems getting the chinese visa.

For the Russian Visa I got the Visa invite from RealRussian.co.uk for $15USD, I printed the form online and posted everything to the Russian Embassy in Dublin via registered post. I also included a registered post envelope so they could return it to me. It was all very smooth. No queues, no hassle. I had to pay for 2 registered post envelopes but taking time of work to queue would have cost me more.

Ideo

What class did you travel in china podgeen? I traveled in hard sleeper while I was there which is the equivalent of 3rd class in in russia, I think? Did you find the two comparable, train travel in china with train travel in russia?

podgeen

I traveled on hard and soft sleepers in China. I spent two months there so took a lot of train journeys. I found the trains in China to be of a higher standard, probably more comfortable than their corresponding class in Russian.

dolliemix

Chinese trains are 500 times better than Russian ones!

The_Daddy_H

To be honest Id recommend having the tickets all sorted out in advance. And Im a big fan of playing it by ear and traveling by the spur of the moment. I traveled from St Petersburg to Singapore almost entirely by train last year and Russia was by far the most difficult place Ive ever travel in. Everywhere else I just showed up at the train station or the hostel and everything generally worked out ok, but in Russia the train staff are unhelpful to put it mildly.

You can read about my experience on my blog www.driftervagabond.wordpress.com if you are interested.

One word of advice, buy a big bottle of good Russia vodka for your carriages provenitza, get on the wrong side of her and the freezing Russian winter will be the least of your worries.

katchmoore

hi all - i'm planning trans siberian mongolian trip myself (london to beijing via train, starting 27th dec) and have gotten some deadly info on these threads - which is great.

originally i was planning on booking the tickets via realrussia or whatever. from a few posts here, i'm just now considering buying tickets at the train stations.

anyone who has bought tickets at the stations - any advice as to how you communicated what you needed to the tellers?

half wondering whether i could get a russian here to write some things down for me which i could show the teller...? or ask the hostels to help me book?

thoughts?

cailinoBAC

Hi, I haven't done the trans siberian, but I have travelled a good bit in trains in Russia, though last was in 2005, so if this is outdated, let me know. I speak some russian, but even so, I would write down all the information on a piece of paper and hand it over in order to buy a ticket.
I would write down
1 bilet (ticket, don't know how to write cyrillic on keyboard)
Destination
Train number
Time of departure (24 hour)
the class I wanted (I usually asked for platzkartny, 3rd class...of course sometimes they wouldn't have it, but they will tell you the price of 2nd class then)
then top or bottom bunk (this after being asked a few times and getting confused. Before specifying I used to always get a top bunk, I prefer a bottom bunk as you can put your luggage underneath and somebody would have to move you off the bunk in order to get at it). Can't think of the words off the top of my head though, I'll try to remember and come back.

Usually they will write down the price and you can go from there, or if it's full they will write down when the next one is.

Don't know if this is any use to people going trans siberian, as I'm not sure where most people get off, but watch out for certain cities where the train stations still have the name of the soviet city name. I was looking at the timetables in Moscow, trying to figure out how to get to Nizhny Novgorod and not seeing anything, until I realised I had to look for a train going to Gorky.

katchmoore

hi cailinoBAC - thanks for your message; it's very helpful. that's what a friend of mine did - good to know all the info you put down. i was thinking of just getting a russian language book out of the library and doing the same???

also - interested to hear you prefer the bottom bunks in 3rd class? my mate said to opt for the top bunk as people use the bottom bunks as seats during the day????? did this not bother you?


additionally - anyone wondering about the mongolian consulate in chapelizon: it's no longer in action as of 2nd Nov this year. got an email today when i enquired. all visa application forms from ROI need to be sent to the embassy in london.

johnp

katchmoore wrote: »

hi cailinoBAC - thanks for your message; it's very helpful. that's what a friend of mine did - good to know all the info you put down. i was thinking of just getting a russian language book out of the library and doing the same???

also - interested to hear you prefer the bottom bunks in 3rd class? my mate said to opt for the top bunk as people use the bottom bunks as seats during the day????? did this not bother you?


additionally - anyone wondering about the mongolian consulate in chapelizon: it's no longer in action as of 2nd Nov this year. got an email today when i enquired. all visa application forms from ROI need to be sent to the embassy in london.

You can go to the Dublin School of English on Wellington Quay (beside the Clarence Hotel) to get your Mongolian Visa.
Just drop in your form and cash and they'll give you a call in a few days to pick it up. Maybe best give them a call first though.

cailinoBAC

Hi, yes, it's true. Everybody sits on the bottom bunk during the day. But if you had the top bunk you wouldn't stay on it. You kind of push it up higher during the day. I think part of the fun of travelling by train is trying to communicate with the others travelling. But even if you can't they will generally share their food, so really you should have something to share too. Often I would take a night train and not have anything because I was only planning on sleeping, but the others would have their evening meal and also some breakfast in the morning. I don't think it's really a problem though if you just want to sleep longer. the top bunkers will sit on somebody else's bunk until you're up and about. I never had any security problems, but even so, when I was on the top bunk I was a bit nervous about my belongings, it's not like everything can fit in a moneybelt, but on the bottom bunk you have the compartment below you and somebody would have to lift the bed up with you on it in order to get at your things. Also, can be awkward to clamber up to the top bunk sometimes. I had quite an audience the first time!

katchmoore

actually that's a good tip about bringing stuff to share; you paint a nice picture of what happens on the train (getting REALLY excited now - yay!)

yeah think i would also be a bit anxious about my bag being so far away from me - i will be travelling with someone else though so maybe one of us will be on top, one on bottom.



John P - no, that's what i meant - both the consulate and also the link in that school have skidaddled back to the uk; i emailed the language school enquiring about visas and they sent be back a pdf from the consulate explaining the post in chapelizod was closed. plus i also rang the london embassy too and they confirmed that so i'm pretty sure.

johnp

katchmoore wrote: »

actually that's a good tip about bringing stuff to share; you paint a nice picture of what happens on the train (getting REALLY excited now - yay!)

yeah think i would also be a bit anxious about my bag being so far away from me - i will be travelling with someone else though so maybe one of us will be on top, one on bottom.



John P - no, that's what i meant - both the consulate and also the link in that school have skidaddled back to the uk; i emailed the language school enquiring about visas and they sent be back a pdf from the consulate explaining the post in chapelizod was closed. plus i also rang the london embassy too and they confirmed that so i'm pretty sure.

DSE is closed too? Well that's a bummer. It was only about 18 months ago that I was in there, and it was dead handy.

btw, I wasn't in 3rd class, but I also preferred the bottom bunk for the reasons cailinoBAC said. Felt a little safer with regards luggage under me, and I looked a complete pleb the first time I climbed onto the top bunk

*glitterball*

Hey, myself and two friends are doing the Trans Siberian in a week. Have seen a few posts with suggestions of things to bring but I was wondering if someone who has done the trip could possibly throw a few more suggestions out there please? We just don't want to be there and be raging that we forgot some really obvious things...Thanks a mil

dolliemix

Keep your empty water bottles for a 'make shift shower'!

And enjoy. I loved that trip!

Whitehawk

*glitterball* wrote: »

Hey, myself and two friends are doing the Trans Siberian in a week. Have seen a few posts with suggestions of things to bring but I was wondering if someone who has done the trip could possibly throw a few more suggestions out there please? We just don't want to be there and be raging that we forgot some really obvious things...Thanks a mil

Its a great tip - i just did it and had lots of fun on it!
Stuff you dont want to forget
alcohol! thats a big one, food -dry noodles are best
a cup and spoon fork etc is handy.
sleeping bag liner as well could be usefull if you in 3rd or 2nd class as sheets are 90% of the fine but also its no harm,
deck of cards,
A "point it book" is great as you can use it to talk to ppl on train.
pack warm and pack light!
if your on 2nd class on some new trains there is sometimes food (snacks) left out - you would think this is free but its not someone will come later and any you have eaten they will ask you to pay for it, tho its not that expensice so dont worry

food cart on tain is expensice enough i found tho cant remeber how much it was tbh.
on each carage there is a list of all stops and how long train will stop for, this is handy to look at so you know how long you can get off train for and buy some stuff and get back on again etc,

are you buying tickets as you go or have you all that planed already?

hellotoyou123

So I've spent the last 30 minutes go through this thread and now for my idiotic contribution to it. I have decided to head off on the Trans Mongolian Railyway on the 12th of December. There has been some excellent contributions this far to the thread. I suppose I was just looking for some advice on clothing at the moment. My biggest problem I am to head down to asia so I have to pack for 2 different climates, very annoying but at the moment I'm excited.

So the tips for heading in winter. I know this is all going to sound silly but here's what i'm thinking of winter gear.

Merino wool base layer
Merino mid layer
Down Jacket
Leggings of some sort
Sorel boots

I suppose I know I'm meant to get decent hats and gloves but anyone know where decent makes or clothes can be bought without crazy prices like Great Outdoors.

I'm heading off on my own too, so I am slightly conscious of the safety level with Saint Petersburg and Moscow and everywhere the whole way to Beijing. Anyone any advice or thoughts. Also getting a train up from Vilious.

Any contributions would be appreciated.