new vrt in2011

hymer514

Does anyone have any thoughts on the new vrt in january for campers over 3500kg will be the same as the smaller ones its going to make imports a lot more expensive will it effect the price of used vans ?

killalanerr

do we know for sure it will change where was this flagged by the government,

it also leaves people who are looking to buy a van soon (as i am) in a bit of a quandary do they rush and try and find one before the budget or take their time in finding the right van and risk a 15%to 25% increase

T650

Well according to this ad on Done Deal,

http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/campers/1461281 ,

Anchorpoint Motorhomes seems to think it's rubberstamped.

jinghong

I cant see it affecting prices much
Look at donedeal.ie there are 45 pages of campers for sale, 15 per page; do the math.
Most of these are vrt already paid, so we have plenty of stock in the country without importing more.
I was in the market for a camper about 6 months ago, thinking about importing, until it dawned on me that ireland was probably one of the cheaper places in europe to buy a camper. Cant see that changing for years..

Aidan_M_M

It is definitely going to change . With disastrous results for those considering buying a new MH next year . WE estimate that one of our "A" class MHs will go up by about 10k.....

AS a result , vehicles registered pre Dec31 , 2010 , will be artifically boosted in value.

merc camper

Where is this information coming from, I am about to start a conversion and dont plan to be finished by the end of december. I have searched the net but cant find anything except hear.

Aidan_M_M

Contact the VRO , or the NCT maybe ? www.ros.ie

Buford T Justice

I have a transit that i am currently in the process of converting and is on UK plates. Should I register it in Ireland and pay the €50 now and get Irish plates, and then convert it to a camper? as It'll unlikely be finished before December

paddyp

merc camper wrote: »

Where is this information coming from, I am about to start a conversion and dont plan to be finished by the end of december. I have searched the net but cant find anything except hear.

I've had a read through the vrt documentation here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/index.html

I reckon your biggest problem come january will no be the cost rather the following:

s102 FA 2010 [Comes into operation on 1 January 2011
“motor caravan” has the same meaning as in paragraph 5.1 of Annex II of Directive 2007/46/EC;]

Which seems to say that as of january you camper will have to be eu certified and m1 crash tested for under 2500kg or m2, m3 tested for over 2500kg.

Buford T Justice

paddyp wrote: »

I've had a read through the vrt documentation here: http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/index.html

I reckon your biggest problem come january will no be the cost rather the following:

s102 FA 2010 [Comes into operation on 1 January 2011
“motor caravan” has the same meaning as in paragraph 5.1 of Annex II of Directive 2007/46/EC;]

Which seems to say that as of january you camper will have to be eu certified and m1 crash tested for under 2500kg or m2, m3 tested for over 2500kg.

Isn't there some sort of guff like this due for legislation in April 2012?

Macy0161

I also thought it was 2012 this was coming in - I'm still van hunting, so there's no way I'll have brought and converted by 1st January, especially if (as per the other post) they appear to be lengthening the process for registering a conversion.

merc camper

Having looked at the revenue link I cant see where it says the VRT is 13.5%. All i can find is that motor homes are class C and he VRT for class C is €50.
There is also no reference to it being EU certified in January.
Can u be more specific about which document u are refering to

paddyp

merc camper wrote: »

All i can find is that motor homes are class C and he VRT for class C is €50.

You didn't look very hard then as its in the first document on page 10 as referenced in the index on page 2. For the benefit of others:

1.2.2.2 Motor Caravans
Motor caravans (as defined in s130 F.A.1992) that exceed 3,000 kilograms unladen weight are classified as Category C vehicles. Those weighing 3,000 kilograms or less unladen weight, which meet the motor caravan definition, are classified as Category B.

To be deemed a motor caravan a vehicle must, amongst other criteria, have an interior roof height of not less than 1.8 metres. Vehicles that are fitted with pop-up or adjustable roofs should have this measurement taken with the roof in its lowest position and where the roof slopes the interior roof height should be measured at its lowest point. They must also contain a sink and a two-ring cooker as minimum equipment.

Category B vehicles

VRT is charged at the rate of 13.3% of the OMSP of the vehicle. The minimum amount for this category of vehicle is €125.

Macy0161

RSA are saying 29th April 2012 for the vehicle approval. No idea whether this should be taken as gospel. Not sure where to double check it officially?

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Vehicles-and-Legislation/Vehicle-Standards/Leisure-vehicles/

From 29th April 2012, such vehicles will be required to adhere to the requirements of European Community Whole Vehicle Type Approval (ECWVTA) to be granted registration by the Revenue Commissioners

Aidan_M_M

All I can tell you is that we deal with the VRO on a weekly basis , what with imports and first registering of new MHs . And they told us that from Jan 1 2011 ALL campers are gonna be on the "high" rate , same as the ones currently falling below the 3000kg limit.

paddyp

Macy0161 wrote: »

RSA are saying 29th April 2012 for the vehicle approval. No idea whether this should be taken as gospel. Not sure where to double check it officially?

http://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Vehicles-and-Legislation/Vehicle-Standards/Leisure-vehicles/

Thanks, I assume thats correct you'd need a degree to read the eu directives, The pdf I was reading of 2007/46/EC seems to include ammendments that aren't fully ratified yet. So my bad.

SARZY

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

It is definitely going to change . With disastrous results for those considering buying a new MH next year . WE estimate that one of our "A" class MHs will go up by about 10k.....

AS a result , vehicles registered pre Dec31 , 2010 , will be artifically boosted in value.

Aidan, wont this increase in price just depress the market even more.
Maybe ye will have to absorb the increase in order to boost sales again.
In that scenario the only winners are the owners of secondhand campers who want to sell as their values compared to the new prices have to rise.
Its going to be messy for ye.

Aidan_M_M

SARZY wrote: »

Aidan, wont this increase in price just depress the market even more.

Maybe ye will have to absorb the increase in order to boost sales again.


In that scenario the only winners are the owners of secondhand campers who want to sell as their values compared to the new prices have to rise.
Its going to be messy for ye.

I agree with the first and third parts of your post , but to be completely honest , no MH retailer could afford to absorb the increase . MArgins are effin tight as they are ...

niloc1951

Forgive me for being a bit of a sceptic, but unfounded (as in not comming from the dept. of finance) prophesies of impending tax hikes coming from within the a depressed trade seem a bit ;):rolleyes:

Opinion based on 30 years working in an industry which used such tactics to boost pre-budget sales every year.:D:D

Aidan_M_M

Sory I don't understand , you think I'm wrong? I assure you I'm not . Just had a new MH in with the NCT/VRT crowd yesterday .

niloc1951

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Sory I don't understand , you think I'm wrong? I assure you I'm not . Just had a new MH in with the NCT/VRT crowd yesterday .

I've been out of the country for a few months and am probably a bit out of touch.
Why are the NCT people involved, has the roadworthiness testing debacle been sorted and is amended legislation now in place, how about a link to it.

And, are you saying you had a 3,000> kg motor caravan with the VRT people and was charged the same tax as would be applied to a 3,000< kg unit :eek::eek:
I would also really like to see a link to an official announcement or document about the VRT issue being discussed on this thread, I notice that ANCHOR POINT MOTORHOMES are quoting the abandonment of the €50 rate as a official government policy in their advertisement here http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/campers/1461281

The current VRT manual section 1, here http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/index.html still clearly categorises motor caravans over 3,000kg as category C and qualifying for the €50 rate

Aidan_M_M

The (Portugese , or is it Spanish...?) company that took over the NCT , also are now in charge of the VRT as well .

Up til the end of December , a MH weighing 3000kgs+ is on the old (current) , cheap rate.
From January 1 they'll all be on the dearer rate , same as a small Van Conversion today . 3.3 % IIRC of the OMSP.


And No , the Roadworthiness debacle is still uncertain. We're getting DOE's done in the local centre.

niloc1951

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

Up til the end of December , a MH weighing 3000kgs+ is on the old (current) , cheap rate.
From January 1 they'll all be on the dearer rate , same as a small Van Conversion today . 3.3 % IIRC of the OMSP.

I can't find any reference to the above anywhere on the internet, not on the Revenue Sites or Dept. of Finance Sites. The only place it is mentioned is here in this site.
Where has the info come from, is there any link to anything official or is the whole thing just another pre-budget scare.
All down the years scary budget changes have been used by various interest groups to manipulate activity in the market place.
An example of this is the prediction of the end of various tax breaks to stimulate activity in the relevant sector which on budget day remained untouched.;);)

spaceHopper

niloc1951 wrote: »

I can't find any reference to the above anywhere on the internet, not on the Revenue Sites or Dept. of Finance Sites. The only place it is mentioned is here in this site.
Where has the info come from, is there any link to anything official or is the whole thing just another pre-budget scare.
All down the years scary budget changes have been used by various interest groups to manipulate activity in the market place.
An example of this is the prediction of the end of various tax breaks to stimulate activity in the relevant sector which on budget day remained untouched.;);)

Then come January you can say told you so or doh, if it's that big a deal call the VRT office in roslare they will know.

PS NCT test centers are now inspecting cars/campers/van... before VRT http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2010-10-14.608.0

stapeler

niloc1951 wrote: »

I can't find any reference to the above anywhere on the internet, not on the Revenue Sites or Dept. of Finance Sites. The only place it is mentioned is here in this site.
Where has the info come from, is there any link to anything official or is the whole thing just another pre-budget scare.
All down the years scary budget changes have been used by various interest groups to manipulate activity in the market place.
An example of this is the prediction of the end of various tax breaks to stimulate activity in the relevant sector which on budget day remained untouched.;);)

Check out http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-legislation-non-statutory-consolidation.pdf which highlights changes for Jan 1st 2011. Feel free to translate it into layman's language

killalanerr

stapeler wrote: »

Check out http://www.revenue.ie/en/about/foi/s16/vehicle-registration-tax/vrt-legislation-non-statutory-consolidation.pdf which highlights changes for Jan 1st 2011. Feel free to translate it into layman's language

ha that will keep yous busy for a while.:D
but i wish that we could find out for sure

Aidan_M_M

I haven't got a link to it in the wilderness thats the VRO site , I'm just telling you what we , as retailers , have been informed by the VRO themselves .

Buford T Justice

Ok, so for funsies I decided to check out the story with my own conversion. I rang the NCT VRT line and asked them what the best thing would be to do. Would it be:

A) Declare the van as a van in the south, pay the €50 and get some irish plates. then bet the conversion sorted afterwards.

Wait until the conversion is finished and then declare it as a camper.

They didn't seem to know really what the best solution was, and the revenue weren't much help on it either. They also told me that I would need to have the certificate from the company that converted the van. I needed to inform them that these regs are not coming into force until 2012. Seems to me that they haven't a notion as to what is going on.

Does anyone here know what I should do or what would be the best idea?

paddyp

Aidan_M_M wrote: »

I haven't got a link to it in the wilderness thats the VRO site , I'm just telling you what we , as retailers , have been informed by the VRO themselves .

Aidan is correct.

Both galway and kerry vro offices called rosslare on my behalf.

3 ton rate is gone come january END OF STORY .. NO CONFUSION here.

niloc1951

So the €50 VRT will be gone then to be replaced with the percentage of the 'open market selling price' formula.
Have any of you guys who are professionals in the business any idea how the VRT office can arrive at the OMSP of say a year 2000 Carthago M liner or similar class of motor caravan, which I am sure have no previous sales recorded in this country.
While the 'regular' sub 3,000kg are usually pretty much similar and represent a fair proportion of 'vans bought and sold here and thus can present a reasonable database of sales to enable VRT to be established, the bigger mid-range and luxury type can be as rare as hens teeth in this country.

Pat McGet

Hello all, I work at a motorhome dealership in Donegal and can backup what Aidan has said, the vrt on motorhomes is changing to 13.3% for all of them. My boss was at a conference in Dublin yesterday where the Revenue confirmed it.

Aidan_M_M

your boss and my boss were chatting about that yesterday and the day before! So much for expecting the SIMI to do something about it...

An another bombshell , a certain MH retailer took a new premium class MH in for VRT the other day , the retail price was E68,000.... yet the VRT reckoned they had to get 13,500 off him , going by next years ruling!! And couldn't explain how they arrived at that figure. Closer to 20%!!!!

Pat McGet

No shock really Aidan, they don't have to explain themselves, they are a law unto themselves! So much for democracy, they dictate and we do what we are told.

niloc1951

OMHO the 'open market selling price' quoted by Revenue and supposedly sourced from real sales data from the trade was always a sham.
My wife has a 'nice clean' 1999 Ford Ka which according to the VRT calculator has an OMSP of €2000, in your dreams :mad::mad:

The system has only served to collect inflated tax AND when used to value stock inflated its real value which kept the banks who provided the capitol to the trade happy.
Basically another 'bubble' which has gone pop for many dealers as can be seen from the many closed up car sales business's.