Why are they always trying to create jobs, create work?

SuperInfinity

Shouldn't one of the ideals of humanity be to do away with jobs and do away with work?

The fact is that many jobs don't help anyone long-term and are just a waste of time anyway, often paid for by the government.

A big reason that there is so much waste in the world is that they make up so many needless jobs and that all of those people need to be paid a lot of money.

So many things these days can be done by a machine. People should NEVER fly anywhere for meetings, it can be done by video-conference just as easily.

The_Minister

I'm so lazy I got my cylon to write this post.

Doc

I agree with what you’re saying but unfortunately the way the world has developed you have to have a job and earn money to survive.

What you are basically talking about is pure communism which is ideologically a great idea and should work but as we know throughout history it dose not.

Unfortunately people are corrupt and lazy so there is no way to ensure that everyone works equally hard for equal returns.

I agree that we all should be working less and spending more time on leisure but this would only work if 100% of the people do it and greed will prevent this from happening.

Echospace

?????

Everyone would just die if nobody worked.

No oil company workers + no truck/aeroplane technicians/pilots/captains + no supermarket workers = no food = you die.

No doctors working = you die.

Etc etc

I'd like to think on some level that every job has meaning and contributes towards progression of society. The civil service though....hmm.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Doc wrote: »

I agree that we all should be working less and spending more time on leisure but this would only work if 100% of the people do it and greed will prevent this from happening.

that's just not true. granted the economy is in **** right now so it'll be a lot harder, butyou can pick up a part time job.. get a small flat and live cheaply spending your leisure time as you will. people aren't forced to get 9 to 5's or stressfull jobs, they do it because they want the bigger house, cars, computers, they have to raise children etc. it's very possibly to 'live for the day' and not get caught up in the rat race, if that's really what you want. It's just that for the vast majority of people, whatever they might say about it.. it's just not.

Riamfada

There are far too many people in this world and everyone has to find a job to do in order to get their hands on what little resources are available. While we continue to replicate beyond our planets capacity to sustain the human population we have to keep competing for more resources and create jobs for people to do.

Problem = Reached "Earth's Maximum Carrying Capacity"
Answer = Reach for some Soylent Green!

CCCP

There are very few part time jobs that would pay enough to live and rent a flat, even cheaply. rent is between 800 and 1300 a month in Dublin city, coincidentally its what most part time jobs would pay in a month.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

who ever said you have to live in your countries capital city?

you can't afford a ferrari on a part time job either

Doc

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

that's just not true. granted the economy is in **** right now so it'll be a lot harder, butyou can pick up a part time job.. get a small flat and live cheaply spending your leisure time as you will. people aren't forced to get 9 to 5's or stressfull jobs, they do it because they want the bigger house, cars, computers, they have to raise children etc. it's very possibly to 'live for the day' and not get caught up in the rat race, if that's really what you want. It's just that for the vast majority of people, whatever they might say about it.. it's just not.

You can’t really spend your leisure time "as you will" in the scenario you have given unless all your leisure activities are free and within walking distance of your home.

Unfortunately quite a lot of the leisure activates in the word cost money or the transport involved to get to them cost money.

If you are only working a part time job once you have covered the cost of rent and basic food you will have very little left to spend on leisure activates.

galwayrush

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Shouldn't one of the ideals of humanity be to do away with jobs and do away with work?

The fact is that many jobs don't help anyone long-term and are just a waste of time anyway, often paid for by the government.

A big reason that there is so much waste in the world is that they make up so many needless jobs and that all of those people need to be paid a lot of money.

So many things these days can be done by a machine. People should NEVER fly anywhere for meetings, it can be done by video-conference just as easily.

So, who will build, and service the video conference machinery if there are no jobs?:pac::pac::pac:

starbelgrade

The_Minister wrote: »

I'm so lazy I got my cylon to write this post.

That's not how you spell 'colon'.

bonerm

Doc wrote: »

What you are basically talking about is pure communism which is ideologically a great idea and should work but as we know throughout history it dose not.

Communists had to work too. What the OP seems to be suggesting is some sort of utopia where people's day's are free to pursue the arts and humanities in order to make the world a more heavenly place.

Basic answer regarding jobs is that is that tired, overworked people with assets and debts, misguided sense of self-worth, status and purpose are less likely to rock the boat and are as a result easier suppress. Same reason we pay social welfare rather than letting societies losers just die in the streets. It's all about keeping as many people as possible in place.

starbelgrade

bonerm wrote: »

Communists had to work too. What the OP seems to be suggesting is some sort of utopia where people's day's are free to pursue the arts and humanities in order to make the world a more heavenly place.

Basic answer regarding jobs is that is that tired, overworked people with assets and debts, misguided sense of self-worth, status and purpose are less likely to rock the boat and are as a result easier suppress. Same reason we pay social welfare rather than letting societies losers just die in the streets. It's all about keeping as many people as possible in place.

Eh. No.

The reason why we pay social welfare is to protect & look after those who are not in the position to look after themselves. The fact that the system is abused (or more importantly) allowed to be abused, should not distract from that.

And it should definitely not be used as an excuse to call those who are unable to work as "societies losers" who should be allowed to "just die in the streets".

bonerm

starbelgrade wrote: »

The reason why we pay social welfare is to protect & look after those who are not in the position to look after themselves. The fact that the system is abused (or more importantly) allowed to be abused, should not distract from that.

And it should definitely not be used as an excuse to call those who are unable to work as "societies losers" who should be allowed to "just die in the streets".

Keep telling yourself that. I don't agree however. BTW, the my point has nothing to with abuse of the system. My personal take on social welfare is that people by nature will do what it takes to survive and if you don't help them first then they will "help themselves" (that was what I meant by my sarcastic "die in the streets" comment - no right minded person would let that happen to themselves). At it's core it has nothing to do with benevolence. It's all about creating social stability by throwing people a bone and hoping that'll persuade them to keep out of trouble.

starbelgrade

bonerm wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that. I don't agree however. BTW, the my point has nothing to with abuse of the system. My personal take on social welfare is that people by nature will do what it takes to survive and if you don't help them first then they will "help themselves" (that was what I meant by my sarcastic "die in the streets" comment - no right minded person would let that happen to themselves). At it's core it has nothing to do with benevolence. It's all about creating social stability by throwing people a bone and hoping that'll persuade them to keep out of trouble.

I would agree to some extent, but you can hardly say that the same principles would apply to people who are unable to work through long term illlness, mental problems etc.

And social welfare extends far beyond "handouts" to the unemployed.

starbelgrade

SuperInfinity wrote: »

So many things these days can be done by a machine. People should NEVER fly anywhere for meetings, it can be done by video-conference just as easily.

You obviously haven't seen "Up In the Air".

Royal Irish

Yes people on social welfare will help themselves, to your belongs after they rob your house, and make withdrawels from banks, post offices and shops across the country with knives and guns.

starbelgrade

Royal Irish wrote: »

Yes people on social welfare will help themselves, to your belongs after they rob your house, and make withdrawels from banks, post offices and shops across the country with knives and guns.

So, you're saying that everyone who hasn't got a job, also has criminal instincts?

Holy crap. I've heard it all now.

clived2

starbelgrade wrote: »

You obviously haven't seen "Up In the Air".

Havent you got drawings to print,

Get back to work, or I will send somone over there to fire your ass
Dont worry they will give you a nice pack full of information :pac:

Cianos

Modern man is designed to work. We aren't content with too much free time, we don't have the presence of mind to appreciate time as it passes, we have to be distracted by something, a task. If this weren't the case, there'd be no such thing as boredom. Work is a big distraction in this sense. It makes free time seem way more valuable.

When we were hunter gatherers, our lives were hand to mouth, if you didn't get up and work that day you could be dead the next. Very harsh, but probably more fulfilling in the sense of how in touch you are with the world around you and your placement within the world.

I'm sorry, but this is the only reply I can make to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-QPDj91OpM

upandcumming

Echospace wrote: »

no supermarket workers = no food = you die.

Hahaha!

thebigbiffo

wealth has to be created somehow (work), it cant be just randomly generated.

lovely if it could, and we could all sit around and get fat like those guys from that movie with the cute robot, but not going to happen

clived2

Royal Irish wrote: »

Yes people on social welfare will help themselves,and make withdrawels from banks, post offices and shops across the country with forms from the goverment

fyp

bnt

If you watch any series of Star Trek, you'll notice that the Federation has no money as we might recognise it - yet people still do what we might call "work", not because they have to, but because they want to. If you start thinking about how that might work, it's interesting: all "grunt work" is automated, even food preparation, so when you see e.g. the canteen on the Enterprise, it's there for social reasons, with a chef who enjoys cooking. But there are certain unspoken conditions that would have to exist: population control, for starters.

RobbieTheRobber

bnt wrote: »

If you watch any series of Star Trek, you'll notice that the Federation has no money as we might recognise it - yet people still do what we might call "work", not because they have to, but because they want to. If you start thinking about how that might work, it's interesting: all "grunt work" is automated, even food preparation, so when you see e.g. the canteen on the Enterprise, it's there for social reasons, with a chef who enjoys cooking. But there are certain unspoken conditions that would have to exist: population control, for starters.

If I watch star trek I'll also notice a few other differences to how we live our lives number one on my list would be we dont live on a feckin spaceship in the future!

PeterIanStaker

The_Minister wrote: »

I'm so lazy I got my cylon to write this post.

Yeah, well my cylon looks exactly like me and is riding my ex's best friend right now, while I'm on boards.

The bastard.

Royal Irish

starbelgrade wrote: »

So, you're saying that everyone who hasn't got a job, also has criminal instincts?

Holy crap. I've heard it all now.

Firstly I didnt say everyone. All am saying is, if social welfare was done away with, the crime rates in Ireland would sky rocket.

Me personally, if I was on social welfare and it was done away with, I would have no problem turning to crime to put food on the table for my kids (if I had any).

Mr Benevolent

bonerm wrote: »

Keep telling yourself that. I don't agree however. BTW, the my point has nothing to with abuse of the system. My personal take on social welfare is that people by nature will do what it takes to survive and if you don't help them first then they will "help themselves" (that was what I meant by my sarcastic "die in the streets" comment - no right minded person would let that happen to themselves). At it's core it has nothing to do with benevolence. It's all about creating social stability by throwing people a bone and hoping that'll persuade them to keep out of trouble.

Actually, the social welfare in Ireland has three purposes:

1. Maintaining a steady supply of votes for current government in bad times
2. Shoring up the economy as much as possible with a home version of quantitative easing.
3. Assisting those who have been made unemployed.