S-510

uprising2

I only came across this and don't know an awful lot about it right now, but from where I'm sitting it looks like a fukked up Bill, it screams dark control.
I'll let my copy and paste's tell this scary story.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOups0dfdwM

“If accepted [S 510] would preclude the public’s right to grow, own, trade, transport, share, feed and eat each and every food that nature makes. It will become the most offensive authority against the cultivation, trade and consumption of food and agricultural products of one’s choice. It will be unconstitutional and contrary to natural law or, if you like, the will of God.” ~Dr. Shiv Chopra, Canada Health whistleblower.
http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/s-510-is-hissing-in-the-grass/

Wonder why the National Guard or Federal agents have effectively imposed martial law by quarantining your town? Under S.B. 510’s House counterpart bill, H.R. 2749 (Section 133b, “Authority to Prohibit or Restrict the Movement of Food”), sponsored by Congressman Dingell, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will have the power to prohibit all movement of all food within a geographic area, whether the food is in your grandmother’s grocery bag in her Toyota Hybrid or on a flatbed. No court order will be needed, just a phone call to the appropriate state official and a public announcement will be sufficient.
http://thegormleyfiles.blogspot.com/2009/10/senate-bill-510-825-billion-dollar.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSw0T25KdEw

Senate Bill S510 Makes it illegal to Grow, Share, Trade or Sell Homegrown Food



http://help.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/WHI10337.pdf




[SIZE=+1]Food Safety Modernization Act of 2010, may be the most dangerous bill in the history of the US. It is to our food what the bailout was to our economy, only we can live without money.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKJ5oxb8bPg

"There is No Right to Consume or Feed Children Any Particular Food; There is No Generalized Right to Bodily and Physical Health; There is No Fundamental Right to Freedom of Contract." ~ US Dept of Health & Human Services and US Food & Drug Administration, 2010

Bill Gates & Monsanto Team Up to Destroy Sustainable Ag in Africa
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_16636.cfm

gizmo

Actually it seems pretty sensible to me. Have you read the Bill itself?

(Sec. 101)
Amends the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) to expand the authority of the Secretary of Health and Human Services (HHS) to inspect records related to food, including to:
(1) allow the inspection of records of food that the Secretary reasonably believes is likely to be affected in a similar manner as an adulterated food; and
(2) require that each person (excluding farms and restaurants) who manufactures, processes, packs, distributes, receives, holds, or imports an article of food permit inspection of his or her records if the Secretary believes that there is a reasonable probability that the use of or exposure to such food will cause serious adverse health consequences or death.

So unlicensed food growers have to keep records of what they produce so they can be inspected for safety.

(Sec. 102)
Authorizes the Secretary to suspend the registration of a food facility if the food manufactured, processed, packed, or held by a facility has a reasonable probability of causing serious adverse health consequences or death to humans or animals.

Sounds about right to me, no different than the Health Inspectors closing down premises here which don't meet a certain standards.

And it goes on like that, basically making sure food is produced in a safe environment, putting into place procedures to ensure standards are discussed at relevant government levels.

(Sec. 112)
Requires the Secretary to develop and make available to local educational agencies, schools, early childhood education programs, and interested entities and individuals guidelines for developing plans for individuals to manage the risk of food allergy and anaphylaxis in schools and early childhood education programs, to be implemented on a voluntary basis.

Oh, here's some education on how to manage the risk of food allergies.

(Sec. 201)
Requires the Secretary to:
(1) allocate resources to inspect facilities and articles of food imported into the United States based on their risk profiles;
(2) increase the frequency of inspection of all facilities; and
(3) report to the appropriate congressional committees annually on food facility and food import inspections.

Now we have monitoring of food imports based on perceived safety risks, pretty standard stuff.

(Sec. 202)
Requires the Secretary to:
(1) recognize bodies that accredit laboratories with a demonstrated capability to conduct analytical testing of food products;
(2) establish a publicly available registry of accreditation bodies;
(3) develop model standards that an accreditation body shall require laboratories to meet; and
(4) periodically reevaluate accreditation bodies and revoke recognition of any not in compliance with this section. Sets forth requirements for mandatory testing, including that:
(1) testing be conducted by federal laboratories or accredited nonfederal laboratories; and
(2) results of such testing be sent directly to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). Requires the Secretary to review results from any sampling and testing that lead to a state or locality issuing a food recall to evaluate the need for a national recall or other compliance and enforcement activities. Requires the Secretary to report to the relevant congressional committees on the progress in implementing a national food emergency response laboratory network.

Opening up the testing process to accredited third party labs. Surely a good thing since the FDA are out to get the population.

And it goes on like that. The Bill can be found here so by all means highlight danger areas. Note, nowhere does it say the sale of organic produce is forbidden.

uprising2

It seems these facist bastards want to slit mother natures throat, tell us she never really existed or she had it wrong all along.
They want an end to dangerous "ORGANIC" foods, and in their place introduce Genetically Modified food's and seeds.
The BIG MULTINATIONAL FOOD COMPANIES feel threatened by small time farmers, co-ops, and even the little garden, no more getting an apple from Mr Jones's apple tree.
They have been on a Public Relations dis-information march for a while now, making up total bollox and selling it as fact.

S. 510: 12 Reasons Why The Food Safety Bill From Hell Could Be Very Dangerous For The U.S. Economy

As you read this, there is a bill before the U.S. Senate that has the potential to change the U.S. food industry more than any other law ever passed by the U.S. Congress. In the name of "food safety", the U.S. government would be given an iron grip over the production, transportation and sale of all food in the United States. Hordes of small food producers and organic farmers could potentially be put out of business. If this bill becomes law, the freedom to grow what you want, eat what you want and to share food from your gardens with your neighbors could be greatly curtailed.
http://origin.benzinga.com/10/09/493286/s-510-12-reasons-why-the-food-safety-bill-from-hell-could-be-very-dangerous-for-the-u-s

Monsanto and the Campaign to Undermine Organics
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Monsanto_and_the_Campaign_to_Undermine_Organics

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]Wal-Mart Declares War on Organic Farmers[/FONT]
[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]http://www.cornucopia.org/WalMart/WalMart_News_Release.pdf[/FONT]
[/FONT]
The great Humanitarian Bill Gates getting some action, why should people be allowed grow food and Bill not get his cut, and why should people be allowed grow food that monsanto don't OWN.

Monsanto Vice President Joins the Gates Foundation
http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_3167.cfm

Arrested for growing a TOMATO!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjWyce_C_Rg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cCyR00UGUo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03-b1tuCEaA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epXNJNjYBvw

For the best explanation of this Bill by Dr Rima

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHUeyD_KCrI

S510sign the petition here - http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/...
Stand up America and Kill this bill

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDskHi50gZM

The basics of this friggin bill:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bb2MlfCfDI

It only takes a thirty seconds to show you care!!!
Jeff Rense:
http://www.rense.com/general91/dehe.htm

Farmers speak out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBtsNe...

Another look at the text of the Bill
http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2009...

uprising2

gizmo wrote: »

Actually it seems pretty sensible to me. Have you read the Bill itself?


So unlicensed food growers have to keep records of what they produce so they can be inspected for safety.


Sounds about right to me, no different than the Health Inspectors closing down premises here which don't meet a certain standards.

And it goes on like that, basically making sure food is produced in a safe environment, putting into place procedures to ensure standards are discussed at relevant government levels.


Oh, here's some education on how to manage the risk of food allergies.


Now we have monitoring of food imports based on perceived safety risks, pretty standard stuff.


Opening up the testing process to accredited third party labs. Surely a good thing since the FDA are out to get the population.

And it goes on like that. The Bill can be found here so by all means highlight danger areas. Note, nowhere does it say the sale of organic produce is forbidden.

So who is actually in favor of it?

Well, big food corporations and big agriculture are actually very much in favor of this bill.

Why?
Is it because they are so concerned about food safety?

No.
In fact, virtually every major case of food contamination in recent U.S. history has come from large-scale industrial agriculture or large-scale industrial food production.
The real reason why they are backing S. 510 is because it will devastate their primary competition - small food producers and organic farmers.

This Bill is about totally controlling food (organic) by placing all types of red tape on it from seed to mouth.

Thousands of small food producers and organic farmers will have their very existence threatened by this bill. It imposes a bureaucratic nightmare on all food producers that the big corporations will be able to handle easily but that will cripple much smaller operations.

Already, many farmers can see the writing on the wall. One small farmer recently described the mood among her fellow small farmers to the Wall Street Journal....
"I know people who have been small farmers for 25 to 30 years who are looking to get out of the business because food safety is becoming so alarmist."

#1 All food production facilities in the United States will be required to register with the U.S. government. No food will be allowed to be grown, distributed or sold outside this bureaucratic framework unless the FDA allows it.

#2 Any food that is distributed or sold outside of U.S. government control will be considered illegal smuggling.

#3 The FDA will hire an army of new inspectors to enforce all of the new provisions in the bill.

#4 The FDA will be mandated to conduct much more frequent inspections of food processing facilities.

#5 The fees and paperwork requirements will be ruinously expensive for small food producers and organic farms.

#6 S. 510 would place all U.S. food and all U.S. farms under the Department of Homeland Security in the event of a major "contamination" or an "emergency". What exactly would constitute a "contamination" or an "emergency" is anyone's guess.

#7 S. 510 mandates that the FDA facilitate harmonization of American food laws with Codex Alimentarius.

#8 S. 510 imposes an annual registration fee on any facility that holds, processes, or manufactures food. It also includes draconian fines for paperwork infractions of up to $500,000 for a single offense. Just one penalty like that would drive a small food producer out of business.

#9 S. 510 would give the FDA tremendous discretion to regulate how crops are grown and how food is produced in the United States. Basically, small farmers and organic farmers will now be forced to farm exactly how the federal government tells them to. It is feared that the U.S. government would soon declare that many organic farming methods are "unsafe" and would outlaw them. In addition, there is the very real possibility that at some point the U.S. government could decide that the only "safe" seed for a particular crop is genetically modified seed and would require all farmers to use it.

#10 S. 510 will give the FDA the power to impose a quarantine on a specific geographic area. Basically the FDA would have the power to stop the movement of all food in an area where a "contamination" has been identified. This would be very close to being able to declare martial law.

#11 S. 510 will give the FDA the power to conduct warrantless searches of the business records of small food producers and organic farmers, even if there has been no evidence at all that a law has been broken.

#12 Opponents of S. 510 believe that it would eliminate the right to clean and store seed. Therefore, control of the U.S. seed supply would be further centralized in the hands of Monsanto and other multinational corporations.

gizmo

The only thing that I disagree with amongst those points are the levies on small farms. Unfortunately neither the bill nor any info provided so far states how large those levies will be and whether they will be implemented according to the size of the producer. If you can provide info on this I'd be more than happy to change my stance however I do reject the assertion that them controlling the methods of production and, as a consequence, safety standards, is a bad thing.

uprising2

Unconscionable Police Raid on Family's Home and Organic Food Co-Op
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2009/05/02/Unconscionable-Police-Raid-on-Familys-Home-and-Organic-Food-CoOp.aspx

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdLxMKuxyr4

Police Begin “Guns Drawn” Raids on Organic Food Stores in California
http://www.organicfoodstores.org/police-begin-guns-drawn-raids-on-organic-food-stores-in-california

Raids are increasing on farms and private food-supply clubs: "When the 20 agents arrived bearing a search warrant at her Ventura County farmhouse door at 7 a.m.... Sharon Palmer didn't know what to say. This was the third time she was being raided in 18 months, and she had thought she was on her way to resolving the problem over labeling of her goat cheese that prompted the other two raids. (In addition to producing goat's milk, she raises cattle, pigs, and chickens, and makes the meat available via a CSA.) ...
But her 12-year-old daughter, Jasmine, wasn't the least bit tongue-tied. ...'She said, 'If you take my computer again, I can't do my homework.' This would be the third computer we will have lost. I still haven't gotten the computers back that they took in the previous two raids." See SWAT Team conducts food raid in rural Ohio

Feds move against farmer – for having cows! "U.S. Food and Drug Administration agents have demanded to inspect a Pennsylvania farm described by its owner as private, arguing, 'You have cows. You produce food for human consumption.' The confrontation developed just days ago at a farm near Kinzers, Pa., belonging to Amish farmer Dan Allgyer.... The agents 'drove past Allgyer's 'No Trespassing' signs and up his driveway almost to his barn, where Allgyer happened to be outside.'....After Allgyer said, 'This is a private farm, I do not sell anything to the public,' the agents accused him of refusing an inspection....
"...in a previous U.S. case, Mennonite farmer Mark Nolt of Maryland had his farm raided by SWAT-type agents. He was fined more than $4,000 and had his equipment confiscated for providing raw – or unpasteurized – milk to participants in his program. ....a participant concluded, 'The food produced on that farm is probably far safer than anything you get at the grocery store.'
"As someone that lives in Pennsylvania in the Amish farmland, I find this story to be horrifying. Our state legislator is working very hard to protect and encourage organic farming in Pennsylvania and then this … happens which totally undermines all his hard work."

gizmo

Still waiting for those figures but in the meantime...

uprising2 wrote: »

Feds move against farmer – for having cows! "U.S. Food and Drug Administration agents have demanded to inspect a Pennsylvania farm described by its owner as private, arguing, 'You have cows. You produce food for human consumption.' The confrontation developed just days ago at a farm near Kinzers, Pa., belonging to Amish farmer Dan Allgyer.... The agents 'drove past Allgyer's 'No Trespassing' signs and up his driveway almost to his barn, where Allgyer happened to be outside.'....After Allgyer said, 'This is a private farm, I do not sell anything to the public,' the agents accused him of refusing an inspection....
"...in a previous U.S. case, Mennonite farmer Mark Nolt of Maryland had his farm raided by SWAT-type agents. He was fined more than $4,000 and had his equipment confiscated for providing raw – or unpasteurized – milk to participants in his program. ....a participant concluded, 'The food produced on that farm is probably far safer than anything you get at the grocery store.'
"As someone that lives in Pennsylvania in the Amish farmland, I find this story to be horrifying. Our state legislator is working very hard to protect and encourage organic farming in Pennsylvania and then this … happens which totally undermines all his hard work."

If he claims it was a private farm then why was he involved in a "program" which sold product to other people?

On a side note, here in Ireland is it legal to run a farm, regardless of whether it is "private" or not, without the appropriate licence?

uprising2

gizmo wrote: »

The only thing that I disagree with amongst those points are the levies on small farms. Unfortunately neither the bill nor any info provided so far states how large those levies will be and whether they will be implemented according to the size of the producer. If you can provide info on this I'd be more than happy to change my stance however I do reject the assertion that them controlling the methods of production and, as a consequence, safety standards, is a bad thing.

Can you really not see this for what it is?, Total Control over what Nature gives naturally, shutting it down as best they can and then introduce their Frankenfoods, have you ever heard of Monsanto?, do you know what they do?, how they poison lands and sow their patented seeds.

The most notable lawsuit was in 1997. “Monsanto versus Percy Schmeiser”
A few Canadian farmers lived next door. One used the Monsanto round up ready canola and the other who didn’t. Allegedly when the blue Monsanto patented seeds from a neighbour yard flew to Percy Schmeiser. Without knowing Schmeiser was growing Monsanto product round up. When this was exposed Monsanto sued Schmeiser for patent infringement, asking for about 400.000 dollars.
http://powerpointparadise.com/blog/2010/05/is-monsanto-evil-young-10th-grader-investigates/

Control Of Food Supply To Be Handed Over To Department Of Homeland Security
http://theintelhub.com/2010/08/30/control-of-food-supply-to-be-handed-over-to-department-of-homeland-security/

The bill opens opens the door to even more federal control over the everyday lives of American citizens. Since they are already engaging in organic raw milk raids without the increased powers of S. 510, the question is going to be how many more guns-drawn raids are we to expect after the bill becomes law?

uprising2

gizmo wrote: »

Still waiting for those figures but in the meantime...



If he claims it was a private farm then why was he involved in a "program" which sold product to other people?

On a side note, here in Ireland is it legal to run a farm, regardless of whether it is "private" or not, without the appropriate licence?

What figures?, the levies?, thats your problem, I don't know if there are any available yet, so stay waiting.

It was a fukking Amish farmer, producing foods for amish community, do you know what the Amish are????, he wasn't selling anything to the public.

Modern Amish Family


Is it illegal to have land, cows, chickens and give your neighbours eggs, milk.

pablo_escobar

more regulations...the bill will do nothing more than make it more difficult for smaller farmers to exist.

we live in a corporatocracy.

it's pretty sad state of affairs.

gizmo

uprising2 wrote: »

Can you really not see this for what it is?, Total Control over what Nature gives naturally, shutting it down as best they can and then introduce their Frankenfoods, have you ever heard of Monsanto?, do you know what they do?, how they poison lands and sow their patented seeds.

You say shut it down, I say regulate it and ensure food sold to the public is produced safely.

As for Monsanto, I'm familiar with them in the context of Roundup and GM foods. The former of which I have little knowledge out outside it's more harmful effects, the latter I'm in favour of if it is made an option. This bill does nothing to change that however.

uprising2 wrote: »

The bill opens opens the door to even more federal control over the everyday lives of American citizens. Since they are already engaging in organic raw milk raids without the increased powers of S. 510, the question is going to be how many more guns-drawn raids are we to expect after the bill becomes law?

The number of raids will depend on how many people break the law clearly.

As for the government controlling the everyday lives of people, well I was linked to a rather an amusing post from a not so amusing forum awhile back and I'd be interested to hear your option on it.

uprising2 wrote: »

What figures?, the levies?, thats your problem, I don't know if there are any available yet, so stay waiting.

The figures and levies I'm waiting for are the ones you mentioned in your post above which you claim will prove to the death of small farmers:

#5 The fees and paperwork requirements will be ruinously expensive for small food producers and organic farms.

uprising2 wrote: »

Is it illegal to have land, cows, chickens and give your neighbours eggs, milk.

I don't know, that's what I asked in my own post.

RGDATA!

gizmo wrote: »

Actually it seems pretty sensible to me. Have you read the Bill itself?

"(2) require that each person (excluding farms and restaurants) who manufactures, processes, packs, distributes, receives, holds, or imports an article of food permit inspection of his or her records if the Secretary believes that there is a reasonable probability that the use of or exposure to such food will cause serious adverse health consequences or death.

So unlicensed food growers have to keep records of what they produce so they can be inspected for safety."

does the part you bolded not seem a bit broad and excessive to you?

at first glance I can understand why there are concerns about this. You could interpret it, for example, that that you now have to keep records any time you send homemade cookies in with your child for the other kids in her class? And the teacher has to keep records if she helps give them out?

I can also understand the fears that small producers are now being lumbered with a largely pointless burden of paperwork, which may only be the thin edge of the wedge as far as 'regulating' what they do.

gizmo

RGDATA! wrote: »

does the part you bolded not seem a bit broad and excessive to you?

at first glance I can understand why there are concerns about this. You could interpret it, for example, that that you now have to keep records any time you send homemade cookies in with your child for the other kids in her class? And the teacher has to keep records if she helps give them out?

Perhaps but common sense dictates that it's not that broad, again it just relates to the fact that I don't think the government is out to get me so when I see bills like this I don't automatically assume the worse. In this specific context I'm sure there'll be some sort of measurement outlined which specifies what amount of a good counts as "distribution".

RGDATA! wrote: »

I can also understand the fears that small producers are now being lumbered with a largely pointless burden of paperwork, which may only be the thin edge of the wedge as far as 'regulating' what they do.

Again I wouldn't consider it pointless. If they wish to sell food products to the public then they need to adhere to certain rules. I personally love going into the town centre once a month to check out the awesome produce available at the Farmer's Market. I buy and consume those products on the under standing that they meet a certain health standard however, and are safe to consume. I expect that these standards are maintained by the government and checked up on throughout the year. If I didn't know this happened then I would be far more wary of purchasing produce from them.

uprising2

gizmo wrote: »

You say shut it down, I say regulate it and ensure food sold to the public is produced safely.

As for Monsanto, I'm familiar with them in the context of Roundup and GM foods. The former of which I have little knowledge out outside it's more harmful effects, the latter I'm in favour of if it is made an option. This bill does nothing to change that however.


The number of raids will depend on how many people break the law clearly.

As for the government controlling the everyday lives of people, well I was linked to a rather an amusing post from a not so amusing forum awhile back and I'd be interested to hear your option on it.


The figures and levies I'm waiting for are the ones you mentioned in your post above which you claim will prove to the death of small farmers:



I don't know, that's what I asked in my own post.

I say shut what down??, people have a right to buy raw milk if they want, organic food if they want, nobody needs govt telling them what they can and cant consume.


Enjoy your weedkiller frogberries. Great stuff that GM/GE.
The Death Of Rice In India


Break the law by growing organic foods, milking a fukking cow? police doing dawn raids in swat vans for raw milk. Keep sucking on that lump of aspartame.

My opinion on that?, Keep sucking on that lump of aspartame, and keep holding on big govt's hand, you might get lost all on your own. Also keep drinking that govt approved alcohol and smoking those govt approved cigarettes, isn't it ironic, dont ye think!


They are costs being added, I don't know if your aware, but theres a fukking worldwide recession, people are struggling to live as is, more costs and paper records of how many carrots and how many mil's of milk were produced cant make farming/growing food more profitable, now can they.


What is a farm?, when does a plot become a farm?, when does a pet become a farm animal, keep sucking on that lump of aspartame, its doing wonders for you.

I'm going to take your posting as proof that this is the case.

uprising2

gizmo wrote: »

Perhaps but common sense dictates that it's not that broad, again it just relates to the fact that I don't think the government is out to get me so when I see bills like this I don't automatically assume the worse. In this specific context I'm sure there'll be some sort of measurement outlined which specifies what amount of a good counts as "distribution".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b27EFldZ17k

Again I wouldn't consider it pointless. If they wish to sell food products to the public then they need to adhere to certain rules. I personally love going into the town centre once a month to check out the awesome produce available at the Farmer's Market. I buy and consume those products on the under standing that they meet a certain health standard however, and are safe to consume. I expect that these standards are maintained by the government and checked up on throughout the year. If I didn't know this happened then I would be far more wary of purchasing produce from them.

If an apple is bad the street dealer doesnt sell it, if an apple is bad you dont eat it, govt agents aren't needed, fish are caught in the polluted sea, brought ashore, sold, no govt agent needed.
Your govt inspecting everything before you eat it occurs only in your imagination, its not needed, common sense is enough.

uprising2

Gizmo incase your not aware, the US govt want people to eat the most polluted foods, polluted with chemicals, organic are NOT polluted, but this fact seems to be escaping you.
http://www.foodnews.org/sneak/EWG-shoppers-guide.pdf

gizmo

uprising2 wrote: »

I say shut what down??, people have a right to buy raw milk if they want, organic food if they want, nobody needs govt telling them what they can and cant consume.

As I quoted from your own post...

uprising2 wrote: »

Can you really not see this for what it is?, Total Control over what Nature gives naturally, shutting it down as best they can and then introduce their Frankenfoods, have you ever heard of Monsanto?, do you know what they do?, how they poison lands and sow their patented seeds.

And I disagree with people having the right to sell produce to the public which hasn't been deemed safe.

uprising2 wrote: »

My opinion on that?, Keep sucking on that lump of aspartame, and keep holding on big govt's hand, you might get lost all on your own. Also keep drinking that govt approved alcohol and smoking those govt approved cigarettes, isn't it ironic, dont ye think!

You've completely missed the point amidst your attempted insults, said point being that while people shout about the dangers of increased government control and influence, they completely ignore the fact that we use many of their services every day. Hell, the work of DARPA was the first step in the creation of the internet, which has proven to be the greatest tool for the spread of information since Gutenberg's press.

uprising2 wrote: »

They are costs being added, I don't know if your aware, but theres a fukking worldwide recession, people are struggling to live as is, more costs and paper records of how many carrots and how many mil's of milk were produced cant make farming/growing food more profitable, now can they.

You clearly didn't read my post above where I mentioned I loved going to the farmers market to pick up their produce. Even as a child when I wasn't fond of vegetables I used to love going down to the country to my Gran's and getting her fresh carrots and peas. The problem with all of these is whenever I've made a point of buying them I've always paid a premium for the privilege despite the supposed previous lack of government interference in the area. Hell were it not for the massive EU subsidises some of these farmers receive I wouldn't even be able to enjoy their produce, so again I don't see the issue with the government being involved.

uprising2 wrote: »

What is a farm?, when does a plot become a farm?, when does a pet become a farm animal, keep sucking on that lump of aspartame, its doing wonders for you.

I'm not sure actually, but in the context of this Bill I would assume a distinction is drawn when you begin to supply food to the public.

And on a final note, I don't really drink fizzy drinks, the yoghurt I most enjoy is no-sugar organic Yeo Valley and I use natural sugar on my cereal, tea and coffee so thankfully my aspartame intake is nice and low.

Yitzhak Rabin

Uprising, if you want to discuss it then discuss it.

No need to attack a user for questioning your OP.

Comments like:

uprising wrote:

Keep sucking on that lump of aspartame, and keep holding on big govt's hand, you might get lost all on your own. Also keep drinking that govt approved alcohol and smoking those govt approved cigarettes, isn't it ironic, dont ye think!

are unwarranted, and add nothing to the discussion.

Brown Bomber

sorry in advance Uprising the 2nd if this is a little off topic.

This thread reminded of a conversation with a Finnish guy I had a conversation with last week. He emigrated here in the 90's after Finland joined the EU; his small farm which had been in his family for generations was forced into closure by EU regulations and apparently he was one of many meaninig many small plots were consolidated into larger plots threfore the means of production in the hands of fewer and fewer.

It is incredibly naive to ignore the power of food as a weapon and means of control.