The campaign for good manners and gentlemanly behaviour...

jayzusb.christ

...starts here. I was in the Globe recently and wanted to buy a drink at a busy bar. Two guys were sitting at the bar talking with quite a bit of space between them (and the only bit of space at the bar). As I approached with a lady I knew, I was told 'there's no way you're ordering here'. I told them to learn some manners but in order to avoid making a scene circumvented them into the melee of customers.

I was also at a wedding recently, where some girls I knew were having a drink in the hotel bar. A fat, wealthy-looking man (not part of the wedding) were drinking at the table that adjoined theirs, and the easiest way out was past him. However he refused to move his chair the necessary half foot to let them out, telling them they would 'have to find an alternative route'.

Let's try and stop this appalling behaviour. Show some respect to other people and we'll have a better society all round

rua327

Good stuff. This thread could get heated but I'm certainly on your side. There is no excuse for a lack of basic manners and politeness. :pac:

Logical Fallacy

jayzusb.christ wrote: »

...starts here. I was in the Globe recently and wanted to buy a drink at a busy bar. Two guys were sitting at the bar talking with quite a bit of space between them (and the only bit of space at the bar). As I approached with a lady I knew, I was told 'there's no way you're ordering here'. I told them to learn some manners but in order to avoid making a scene circumvented them into the melee of customers.

I was also at a wedding recently, where some girls I knew were having a drink in the hotel bar. A fat, wealthy-looking man (not part of the wedding) were drinking at the table that adjoined theirs, and the easiest way out was past him. However he refused to move his chair the necessary half foot to let them out, telling them they would 'have to find an alternative route'.

Let's try and stop this appalling behaviour. Show some respect to other people and we'll have a better society all round

You need to actually do something to stop it though, no point in walking off. Something similar to the first thing happened to me in a club recently, i was told there was no way i was ordering my drinks at a section of the bar "we're having a ****ing chat pal", i told the lads to talk around me or find somewhere away from the bar and ordered my drink.

End result? Nothing at all, the two chaps sat there quiet as mice until i had payed for my drink and left.

You let people get away with bad manners or you don't.

Personally that old dude at the wedding would have ended up on his ass. Alternative ****ing route? How's about i just go straight through ya?

The best way to fight bad manners is with a good dose of justified ill behaviour.:D

jayzusb.christ

You need to actually do something to stop it though, no point in walking off. Something similar to the first thing happened to me in a club recently, i was told there was no way i was ordering my drinks at a section of the bar "we're having a ****ing chat pal", i told the lads to talk around me or find somewhere away from the bar and ordered my drink.

You're absolutely right, of course, and I deeply regretted not making more of an issue out of the bar / chat situation.

As for the arrogant piece of s**t at the wedding, I wasn't there when it happened - I would certainly have had a few words if I had been.

Monkeybonkers

Stand up to people like this and you'll often find they're all talk. What's the worst they can do? If they physically harm you well that's what the Gardai are for.

Mackman

Thats appalling behaviour. I cant stand rudeness, its my biggest pet pieve. It takes absolutely no effort to be nice to people. :mad:

Galvasean

Bah, I HATE it when people take up a needless amount of space at the bar when it's busy and ordering space is at a premium. If you must sit at the bar for whatever reason it is common courtesy to make a bit of leeway so people can order their drinks.

Dudess

Yeah, it's treating a jam-packed bar on a Saturday night as if it's your local on a Sunday afternoon - how is it even remotely comfortable?

Nervous Wreck

jayzusb.christ wrote: »

You're absolutely right, of course, and I deeply regretted not making more of an issue out of the bar / chat situation.

You were absolutely right not to. It may have made you feel better for asserting yourself but you said you approached the bar with a friend and she may not have felt comfortable with a scene being made. IMO, you handled the situation well by telling them they needed to learn some manners and leaving it there. By reflecting their terrible manners, you would almost vindicate them. And what's it worth? A punch in the nose, bottle in the face? Who cares enough to have that inflicted upon them for a stupid drink at a (really crap btw) bar?

The best way to 'fight' this sort of appalling behaviour is to forget it. Cos if you get wound up by it, you'll invariably be rude to someone else in your heightened state. Smile, walk away and enjoy the rest of your night/life. Spreading positive vibes is infinitely more productive than trying to fight negative ones.

TouchingVirus

jayzusb.christ wrote: »

I was also at a wedding recently, where some girls I knew were having a drink in the hotel bar. A fat, wealthy-looking man (not part of the wedding) were drinking at the table that adjoined theirs, and the easiest way out was past him. However he refused to move his chair the necessary half foot to let them out, telling them they would 'have to find an alternative route'.

Failing to see the need to replace "A man" with the bolded bit.

I was at a club when a tall, fat man with dirty clothes and a smell of urine eminating from him elbowed me in the back. I turned around only to get met with his greasy, unkempt hair.... etc etc.

A man elbowed me in the back.


To be honest I've often stood at the bar on a busy night and only moved for people who asked me to. Mainly I'd be far too busy chatting to whomever than to notice somebody trying to get by me to go for a drink. If they tap me and say "Sorry" or "Excuse me, can i just get in there" then by all means in you go. If you elbow me in the back or try to bull through you're just being ignorant and deserve nothing from me.

Incidentally I support this campaign for better manners. I always excuse myself as I go by people in pubs or whatever and I've got to squeeze by, I hold the door open for anybody remotely close to it who appears to be going through (man or woman). Most of them say thanks, some don't but then I just shout after them "You're welcome" and that usually cops them on.

I don't think we should hark back to the days when the male stood for the female being seated or anything, but a few manners and a bit of common decency do go a long way.

jayzusb.christ

Failing to see the need to replace "A man" with the bolded bit.

Think you mean that you do see the need, but fair point, no real need for the fat and weathy bit. It's only because I'm scrawny and poor-looking.

Most of them say thanks, some don't but then I just shout after them "You're welcome" and that usually cops them on.

Me and all. Has to be done.

Logical Fallacy

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, it's treating a jam-packed bar on a Saturday night as if it's your local on a Sunday afternoon - how is it even remotely comfortable?

It's about stamping out their little territory and trying to live up to whatever image they have of themselves in their head. Normally total **** get off on pushing around people they don't expect to stand for themselves.

They don't normally try **** like this in places they don't know.

I've seen it a thousand times on the doors, on the bus, in office jobs....doesn't really matter. When someone is being a wanker, just say "Stop being such a wanker" and they normally do. Why? Because in a world of **** they don't have the stones to be a wanker the right way.

Personally, if i were to be wanker to someone it would start with me calling them a tosser and end with me burning their house down...but purely because i believe in going from A to Z, not deciding at C that D and E are just too scary looking.

Semele

Have always loved this Oscar Wilde quote:

"A true gentleman is one who is never unintentionally rude"

conorhal

To wit, Gentlemen of the Gentlemen’s lounge,

Bus etiquette:

1) Do you have to sprawl across the only free seat on the bus like a post coital rag doll?

I hate those Muppets on the bus that leave you perched balancing by one arse cheek on the edge of a seat because they are sprawled across two thirds of it.

I think this moral failing began when parents stopped telling their kids to sit up straight and stop fidgeting...


2) The seat beside you on a packed bus is not a luggage rack.... MOVE YOUR ‘EFFN BAG!

3) This for some reason seems to apply mostly (though far from exclusively) to 'de foreigners'. Why can't you share a seat with your friend? I assure you that it's not gay, so there is no need for two people to take up two double seats and then shout a conversation across the isle at each other.

Otis Driftwood

The 2 reasons cited above are the reason why I never sit on Dublin buses and even then its only when its a longish journey - 30 minutes upwards - and even then only if its near empty.It bugs the bejaysus out of me to see seat hogs especially when elderly men or women get onto the bus.Some people are such ignorant assholes.

SHOVELLER

Whatever about seat hogs the worst behaviour on a bus is people rabbitting endlessly on their phones.

People without manners are generally bullies who in turn are spineless cowards.

At fault are parents and the education system.

5live

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Whatever about seat hogs the worst behaviour on a bus is people rabbitting endlessly on their phones.

People without manners are generally bullies who in turn are spineless cowards.

At fault are parents and the education system.

Maybe a bit off theme here but when did it fall to the education system to do the parents job? Manners begin at home and it is the PARENTS responsibility to not only tell their children what is acceptable behaviour but also to demonstrate it on a continuous basis. As a parent i get absolutely mortified when my children arent polite as i feel it reflects badly on me and my parenting skills(or lack of same). Do we have to farm out ALL responsibility for behaviour to others or stand up and assume our responsibility for our childrens behaviour

Mackman

5live wrote: »

Maybe a bit off theme here but when did it fall to the education system to do the parents job? Manners begin at home and it is the PARENTS responsibility to not only tell their children what is acceptable behaviour but also to demonstrate it on a continuous basis. As a parent i get absolutely mortified when my children arent polite as i feel it reflects badly on me and my parenting skills(or lack of same). Do we have to farm out ALL responsibility for behaviour to others or stand up and assume our responsibility for our childrens behaviour

+1, to much pressure is put on teachers these days. What are they supposed to do with a little bastard that has been let run riot for 5 years before entering school? Why should it be the teachers fault that the kid's a monster? All fall backs to the parent IMO.
The teachers job is to make sure they behave in school, and if they dont report it to the parents. Unfortunatly too much of the time when this happens the teachers get an earful from the parents about how their special little johnny/mary would never do anything and how dare they for acusing them of it

/rant

SHOVELLER

Absolutely agree with points there. Very aware of what teachers go through.

I meant that from the moment children enter school manners should be part of the curriculum i.e. some sort of civics class.

Unfortunately not all parents should be parents.

Logical Fallacy

5live wrote: »

Maybe a bit off theme here but when did it fall to the education system to do the parents job? Manners begin at home and it is the PARENTS responsibility to not only tell their children what is acceptable behaviour but also to demonstrate it on a continuous basis. As a parent i get absolutely mortified when my children arent polite as i feel it reflects badly on me and my parenting skills(or lack of same). Do we have to farm out ALL responsibility for behaviour to others or stand up and assume our responsibility for our childrens behaviour

Bingo, my parents though me the value of manners, the idea of people wanting to push off that responsibility to others is lol worthy.

BopNiblets

conorhal wrote: »

1) Do you have to sprawl across the only free seat on the bus like a post coital rag doll?

I hate those Muppets on the bus that leave you perched balancing by one arse cheek on the edge of a seat because they are sprawled across two thirds of it.

Oi, some of us have long legs that don't fit in those seats!
Go sit next to a shorty and save our knees from being dug into the back of the seat in front for an hour.

gymfreak

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Whatever about seat hogs the worst behaviour on a bus is people rabbitting endlessly on their phones.

People without manners are generally bullies who in turn are spineless cowards.

At fault are parents and the education system.

I think that's probably the problem with society today. People are so busy that they end up passing on responsibilities to everyone else. Children should 'experience' manners and proper behaviour in school but the primary responsibility lies with the parents.

Completely O/T but it reminds me of the religion debate, where parents expect teachers to their children religion and prayers but yet they don't practise it with the children or take them to mass??

the_syco

conorhal wrote: »

I hate those Muppets on the bus that leave you perched balancing by one arse cheek on the edge of a seat because they are sprawled across two thirds of it.

Ah, the joys of being 6 foot 6, and listen to metal. They'll move.

On the otherhand, if I'm sitting on one of the small seats, and my legs are taking up the majoitiy of legg space, tough. It's not a case of me being a hypercrit, it's a case of me not fitting into the small seat. It's also why I drive mostly. I'm only really on the bus if i'm planning on drinking.

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Whatever about seat hogs the worst behaviour on a bus is people rabbitting endlessly on their phones.

Welcome to a public place.
Population: everyone else.
Which means that they can talk on a mobile phone.

=-=

From working in a pub/nightclub, I tend to "see" paths of less resistance when walking through throngs of people.

I hold the door for anyone close by.

bohsboy

I love the Michael Douglas, Falling Down response to ignorant fools but I'd hazard a word of warning to anyone deciding to put manners on a group of blokes at a bar on a Saturday night.

Might turn out ok most of the time but there's always someone in the pack ready to go boxing at a drop of a hat. How many people have we seen murdered or injured for silly disputes?

There are a lot dangerous fools around coked up to the eyeballs now.

RiderOnTheStorm

bohsboy wrote: »

There are a lot dangerous fools around coked up to the eyeballs now.

+1

But I also agree with most of the other posters. Something has to be done when we see bad manners. There is no point tut-tutting and then doing nothing (except bringing the bad feelings home and bringing everyone else down). Get it off your chest and maybe, just maybe, improve the world a teeny-tiny bit.

Heard an interview on radio some time ago. A guy was doing this social experement where he was spotting bad manners and correcting folk. He told one guy on a train to take his feet down from off the seat opposite him. To which he was told 'there is no sign to say no-feet' . The guy was very firm that it was his right to put his feet up. It could have gotten ugly, so the fiurst guy didnt push it. But he didnt finish there. Later on (maybe in a different carrage) he spottted 2 guys with their feet up on seats. He approached them, and in a joking / jovial voice told the guys 'i hope the last lad to sit there with his feet up didnt have dog sh1t on them!' ... and the guys took their feet down.
Ok, so it was different guys so its not a true experement. But I think the point is (a) if you tell folk what to do, then they wont do it! Noone likes to be told what to do .... but if you make a joke about it, then they have an 'out' to save face .... and (b) sometimes it has to be pointed out why you shouldnt put your feet up on a seat, and just saying 'you shouldnt do it' isnt enough. But keep it simple. You are not out for a public debate.

Having said this, I think you have to think of the situations that make you fume, and prepare your witty put-downs (well, I do, as I am not fast enough to think of them at the time .... but always come up with them when the situation is well over) and your simple explinations too.
.... you are blocking folk from the bar
.... people will trip over your feet
.... can you take down your case, all the seats are full
ie Keep It Simple Stupid (KISS)

Lastly, my wife works at a local Gym, and she says its amazing the number of folk that come in and dont say 'hello'. Now I know everyone has stuff on their mind and not all days are the same, but they are paying hundreds of euro to go to the gym, so they prob do want to be there. You would think that folk would at least say 'hi' when someone else says 'hi' to them.