HELP coolant level

tiocimarla

Im desparate for help here im driving a 02 audi a4 1.6 and this afternoon the check coolant level poped up on the dash. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the temperature off the scale over 130 degrees.

I stopped the car turned off the engine and waited till it cooled down a bit. Then I filled up the coolant thingy with water. I drove to the garage and they were out of coolant so I drove home.

Now I thought it was alright till I went to the chipper about an hour ago and it started again in the exact same sequence. I really dont have the cash to get it serviced right now so im looking for solutions.

Im no mechanic but I have done work on cars before(DIY) Id like to think I know my way round the car but im puzzled here. Before u ask I topped up the oil last week and im left thinking its the thermostat or blown fuse maybe(fingers crossed)or even the fan. The coolant level is full so I dont understand how its heating up so fast. Can the coolant tube get blocked by anychance? I pumped it with my hand and it does move the level very slightly. Help I need my car for work and this couldnt have come at a worse time:(

Forest Master

Sounds like a thermostat.

tiocimarla

If it is does that mean its safe to drive for a bit?

pajero12

tiocimarla wrote: »

Im desparate for help here im driving a 02 audi a4 1.6 and this afternoon the check coolant level poped up on the dash. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw the temperature off the scale over 130 degrees.

I stopped the car turned off the engine and waited till it cooled down a bit. Then I filled up the coolant thingy with water. I drove to the garage and they were out of coolant so I drove home.

Now I thought it was alright till I went to the chipper about an hour ago and it started again in the exact same sequence. I really dont have the cash to get it serviced right now so im looking for solutions.

Im no mechanic but I have done work on cars before(DIY) Id like to think I know my way round the car but im puzzled here. Before u ask I topped up the oil last week and im left thinking its the thermostat or blown fuse maybe(fingers crossed)or even the fan. The coolant level is full so I dont understand how its heating up so fast. Can the coolant tube get blocked by anychance? I pumped it with my hand and it does move the level very slightly. Help I need my car for work and this couldnt have come at a worse time:(

Did you hear any boiling or gurgling? It may just be a thermostat or temp. reader problem! Is the fan electric or belt driven?? Btw..i don't think you should stop the car like that..Leave the car on tick over!If the engine is stopped there's no fan running or water pumping round the engine!

tiocimarla

Well from a past expierience i waited about 5 minutes to open the coolant as it nearly gave me a bad burn. That was a different car a few years back. I opened it very slowly expecting it to bubble up at me but it barely hissed once open it all seemed fine, the coolant level was just below the max indicator. The fan is electric but I wont know if its working till tomorrow as im afraid to turn it on untill I have a better understanding of whats goin on

dunsandin

electric fan should run regardless of car on or off. water pump could be stuffed? Or else the thermostat has died. Or it could just be a false reading, given the above post. If not, if you drive it and it keeps overheating, the head gasket will pop, or else the motor will get too hot and the pistons will pick up on the bores and sieze. Get it looked at and avoid driving till fixed. Harm can occur rapidly, of the dead engine type.

martinr5232

More than likely a faulty coolant temp sensor is fairly common on these.

tiocimarla

martinr5232 wrote: »

More than likely a faulty coolant temp sensor is fairly common on these.

Is that hard or expensive to replace. And could the water pump be at fault also?

martinr5232

No its simple if you know what your doing but I havent opened the bonnett on a petrol A4 or Passat in a long time so I cant really guide you.

But I think the temp sensor is just above the gearbox and its probably green in colour.

Tommorrow check your coolant level and run your car on tickover and see how far up the needle goes.

If it doesnt force the coolant out of the bottle when the gauge is reading hotter than normal its just a sensor faulty.

If you want you can PM me and ill give you my number and you can ring me.

martinr5232

martinr5232 wrote: »

More than likely a faulty coolant temp sensor is fairly common on these.

that wouldn't be accompanied with a drop in actual coolant level though, as he topped up the reservoir I presume the level was below max.

Heroditas

Aren't there two temp sensors in the Audis?
I remember one had to bre replaced in my old Audi and it was an ok job but the other one is apparently very awkward.
Either a temp sensor or the water pump is shagged.
I have a feeling it's the water pump

Mr Benevolent

1.6 Audi is well known for head gasket failure. Try not to drive more than a couple of miles before getting this sorted. It's probably a thermostat problem but it WILL turn into a HG issue if you let it go.

sam ford

i would remove themostate and see how it goes:o

tiocimarla

ok the coolant level didnt drop, well i dont think it did anyway. Ijust topped it up to be safe. Im going out to inspect it now. Can anybody give me advise on how to narrow it down please. Thanks for the feedback so far guys.;)

Let her heat up at idle

- check fan kicks in to try and keep needle at 90 degs ish
- try and see is the coolant getting about, may be easy or hard to see depending on the state of the reservoir.
- as temp gauge rises above where it should be see is coolant boiling / bubbling.
- Remove stat if you are so inclined and test it in boiling water to see does it open (do this when everything is cold)

tiocimarla

OK im gonna try that now the resivoir is perfectly clean so it should be easy. The thermostat should be it the end of the rad hose i presume. Can it be cleaned if its at fault or does it need replacing. Is it possible to buy a thermostat today near dublin 15 if this is the problem or will i have to wait untill tomorrow.

JUst thought about the stat, if your stat is the problem its stuck closed so the radiator wont heat up, can check that easily so no need to pull the stat out

cruizer101

Just to echo what rover james said if stat is closed radiator won't heat up as there will be no flow of coolant so can just feel the radiator to check this, using this method should also be able to see if its the water pump, as again no flow of coolant. Thermostats are also designed to fail in open position as this means engine will underheat, which while bad isn't going to explode your engine. Not saying they can't fail closed just not as common.

tiocimarla

RoverJames wrote: »

JUst thought about the stat, if your stat is the problem its stuck closed so the radiator wont heat up, can check that easily so no need to pull the stat out

Ok ive been sitting here in the car for half hour now. It took 15 mins to get to 90degrees then it went back to 65 twice and back up. Half an hour in now and its at 110 degrees now and the fan is working no bubbling or movement as of yet in the resivoir

tiocimarla

no hot air comming from air con just cold. what does this mean. Also I cant see the thermostat. Its an ALZ and ive been looking round different forums and people say ive to remove the alternator

Is the radiator hot ? When you say there is no hot air I take it you have the knob turned to hot ?

tiocimarla

OMG I think im in trouble here. Ive spent the last two hours taking bits apart and there is a few air and breather hoses needing replacement. I dont know how to identify them to get new parts. any help people on identification, secondly I still havnt found the thermostat. its looking more likely its behind the alternator.

tiocimarla

Yep the rad is set to hot and its cold. The coolant doesnt apear to be moving or bubling. Ive searched everywhere to find the location of the thermostat but no joy.

DublinDilbert

Its a bad sign if the internal heater in the car is not working. You need to get this working. Im not 100% on the setup of the Audi but there might be a bleed screw for the heater circuit that needs bleeding.

I've also seen water pumps fail, where the impeller (typically plastic) slips on the shaft when under load. But at idle there is just enough friction to turn the impellar. The effect is it works perfectly at idle but stops working as you drive leading to the engine over heating...

tiocimarla

no its overheating at idle

cruizer101

I'm going to guess its water pump, if it was the thermostat you should still get hot air into car once the engine is hot. The circuit for the heater matrix would come off the engine before the stat not after, as under normal operating conditions should be able to heat car even if thermostat isn't open.

I could well be, and hope I am, wrong as changing water pump is a pretty big job. Hopefully some others may be able to give better answers.

cruizer101

cruizer101 wrote: »

if it was the thermostat you should still get hot air into car once the engine is hot. The circuit for the heater matrix would come off the engine before the stat not after, as under normal operating conditions should be able to heat car even if thermostat isn't open..

Yep, otherwise folks would get very chilly in their cars when on motorways in winter when the stat spends a lot of time closed and the heaters are on inside

Seems as the rad is heating up in the OPs car it isn't the stat anyway, as said earlier, they rarely (very very very rarely) fail in the closed position.

dunsandin

And if it is, (and I'd say it is) the water pump, you could be as well throwing on a new T belt and tensioner while you're at it if its any way near due doing. does the whole bumper assbly not pull off on these to allow better access?

tiocimarla

Sorry I dont believe the rad is heating up at all. I think it was slightly warm due to engine heat. Im gonna have another blast at the thermostat today, im headin down to the breakers to pick up a thermostat, a coolant sensor, some silicone air tube and spare airbox componants. Im sure Il be back on soon for advice and il keep you updated. Cheers for all the feedback so far lads.;)

El Guapo!

TBH I think your wasting your time with the thermostat. If I had to bet money on it I'd say its the waterpump. I've seen them fail on a few of them before. As has been said before that when your changing the waterpump you should change the timing belt kit (incl tensioner and pulleys)
Since you drove it when it over-heated there's a chance of damage to the head gasket so you'd need to check that too. Hopefully it'll be ok but its a possibility. And DONT drive the car again until its sorted or you definately will blow the head gasket and possibly crack the head.

A stat from a scrapyard :eek: I'm all for saving a few quid but that's madness.

mathepac

Dean09 wrote: »

TBH I think your wasting your time with the thermostat. If I had to bet money on it I'd say its the waterpump. I've seen them fail on a few of them before. As has been said before that when your changing the waterpump you should change the timing belt kit (incl tensioner and pulleys) ... .

+1 Do not drive the car. It sounds like the coolant in the engine block is trapped there and over-heating while the rad and the heater-matrix remain cold. The plastic-impeller water-pumps have a defined shelf-life (4 years or 80k miles?) Audi do a t-belt kit I believe that includes all the bits.

The engine block and rad will have to be drained and flushed to get all the bits of plastic out.

cruizer101

http://www.irishautoparts.ie/catalog/product/view/id/959886/s/IAPTK00238/

thats one for 9 quid, that seems very cheap to me but your only looking at 20-30 in any motor factors anyway.
Far easier than having to take one out of a scrap car, especially considering the amount of hassle you have had even finding it, it must be in awkward enough place.

But looks like water pump anyway.
Thats seems very bad design that impeller would break up, sure how could u ever be sure you get it all out, surly its just the bearing or something like that that goes.

tiocimarla

Ok i have taken your advice on the stat. Il buy new.

I have a list of parts needing replacing.

06b103209n breather line Audi OEM cost 50 euro+VAT
fuel line (from fuel reg) 1M 14euro
sensor for coolant 40 euro +VAT
thermostat that Audi say has to be replaced with housing?? 65 euro+VAT
Cat con gaskets +bolts 32euro+VAT

The breather line and fuel line are taped up with elec tape and leaking very slightly so im gonna change them anyway, I have a cat in the shed for a few months now and have been lazy tbh.

As for the sensor and stat they will be the first to change.

On another note the coolant hose outlet is hot and the inlet is cold so im guessing its not the sensor at all but the stat or the pump.

Can anyone back up my findings with yet more advice:( and does anyone know any websites or motor factors that sell these parts at a reasonable price.

Also when im fitting these parts im gonna take picks and show a step by step procedure for anyone with similar problems in the future as its been a nightmare for me to figure out and it may be of help to somebody else.

Thanks again for the educated response;)

I honestly can't see it being the stat, they don't fail closed 99.9% of the time.

El Guapo!

RoverJames wrote: »

I honestly can't see it being the stat, they don't fail closed 99.9% of the time.

+1

I know its not what you want to hear OP but I think you'll have to just bite the bullet and do the pump and belt. The thermostat is not the problem and you'll be only wasting more time and money by buying a new one. For all you know the head gasket could be fúcked too and you dont want to be throwing money away if thats the case.

tiocimarla

I was avoiding the pump as its the hardest to do but not impossible. Im thinking sensor and stat change as they are cheap parts and then if im still snookered il throw my hand at the pump.

I realize the belt has to come off if the pump is the fault so is there any difficulty in doing this or is it a no go area for a diy job. That said I can put my hand to almost anything with decent guidence and if I feck it up I am only 100 meters from a garage so I can push down there and pay them to fix but as ive said I havnt the cash for that now

Main VW dealer in Cork City do water pump and timing belt on the petrols for €420/€450 I think. Judging by this thread I wouldn't advise you to tackle it yourself, on the golf petrol an engine mount has to be opened to do the timing belt, if the Audi is the same you won't be pushing the car anywhere half way through.

tiocimarla

just took out the coolant sensor and there was oil all over it due to a burst pipe above. Im gonna pick up that part tomorrow and see how we are

dunsandin

You might win jammie dodger of the year award yet!! Hopefully the sensor will see you right if sponds are tight. Best of luck.

El Guapo!

Its a fairly big job for a DIY. You'd want to be fairly confident of your ability before tackling it. If you do a search on the web your sure to find a "how to" guide somewhere.
Basically the front of the car has to come off to get at the pump (bumper, headlights, radiator.-all have to come off.) Its not impossible for a competent DIY'er but its one of those jobs that if it goes wrong it can do serious damage.




EDIT: Here's a link to a step by step. Its for the 1.8T model but its basically the same and it'll give you an idea of what to expect if you decide to have a go. http://www.vaglinks.com/Docs/Audi/B5/AudiWorld.com_Audi_A4_1.8T_Timing_Belt_Replacement_DIY.pdf

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