Dispute over infraction

bladeruner

Hi,
I received an infraction in the Aviation and Aircraft forum about 3 weeks ago.

I dont believe the infraction was warranted and contacted the Mod (andy_g) to ascertain the reason for the infraction.
Andy_G has not given me any further information except to refer me here .

As regards some background to the issue ...
The next reply in the thread after my infraction was a warning from Andy_g saying that "airline bashing will not be tolerated"

I did not bash any airline and I think that this is obvious from reading my post.
My post worked through facts which are readily available to draw a conclusion. The rhetorical question I posed at the end is hardly "bashing" as it can be proven unequivocally by reviewing media coverage of any time Ryanair have withdrawn from an airport.

I do not believe anyone else on the forum interpreted my post as "airline bashing" .

While I do not expect to monopolise Mods time , I have not recieved any information from Andy_G ( despite requests ) as to what part of the post is airline bashing .


The link is to the thread .
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67775527#post67775527


Any help on this matter would be appreciated .

Regards,
Bladeruner

Scofflaw

Hi bladeruner,

I suspect on a first reading that andy_g is referring to this part of your post:

as a matter of interest , have Ryanair ever left a base for a reason that was their own fault ? thought not ...
They always blame someone else to cover their retreat.

Would you not consider that as a fairly derogatory remark about Ryanair? I have to say that if someone said that about me on a public forum, I'd certainly personally consider it Scofflaw-bashing.

I'll ask andy_g, obviously, but I'll be surprised if that's not what he's referring to.

moderately,
Scofflaw

bladeruner

Hi Scofflaw,
Thanks for taking the time to look into this matter.
I would contend that my statement is an inconvenient truth for Ryanair.
This does not make it bashing in any sense

If the mods care to examine any Ryanair press release or media report regarding Ryanairs withdrawal from any airport , they will see my that statement is factual and as such could not be considered airline bashing.


I would hope that my proven record of mature debate on this site would stand to me .

The tone of my posting was not irreverant.
I believe Andy_G over reacted.

Any hue , standing by for further developments.

Regards,
Bladeruner

Scofflaw

bladeruner wrote: »

Hi Scofflaw,
Thanks for taking the time to look into this matter.
I would contend that my statement is an inconvenient truth for Ryanair.
This does not make it bashing in any sense

If the mods care to examine any Ryanair press release or media report regarding Ryanairs withdrawal from any airport , they will see my that statement is factual and as such could not be considered airline bashing.


I would hope that my proven record of mature debate on this site would stand to me .

The tone of my posting was not irreverant.
I believe Andy_G over reacted.

Any hue , standing by for further developments.

Regards,
Bladeruner

I'm waiting on a response from him, but unless he comes up with something really weird, I have to say I'd simply say he was right, and that I have to support the infraction, although a yellow card might have been sufficient.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bladeruner

Scofflaw ,it seems rather unfair to me that an infraction would stand despite there being nothing untrue said .

That Ryanair might be embarrassed by it ( now do you really believe they would be ? ) is not in itself bashing .
If i publish some embarrassing statistic of City jet's or Aer Lingus does that count as bashing too ?
How is it bashing if its a statement of widely known fact.
Its not a secret that Ryanair always blame some one for them leaving an airport , I doubt Im hurting Michael o'Leary's feelings with my post .
He plays the blame game to garner more publicity and thats his business.

Some times the truth hurts , I dont think what I said was false or "bashing" and One should not have to wrap up a truthful statement in cotton wool particularly it would appear , to protect Ryanairs feelings.

In any case I would feel aggrieved if the infraction stood upon such baseless grounds.

Perhaps if I rabbited on about it or made it my signature or some such , it would eventually appear malicious , but I didnt , it related to the thread .


Regards ,
Bladeruner

Scofflaw

In this case, the reason that the forum has the rule is that there are many different people with different takes on what constitutes a completely truthful and necessary statement about an airline. Rather than judging each such claim on its own, which is an exhaustive process as well as potentially miring boards.ie in libel proceedings, the forum has a blanket rule about not making such comments, and there's no question that's such a comment.

All I can offer in this case is that the infraction be stepped down to a yellow card rather than a red card - that is, a warning in respect of making the comment rather than an infraction for making it.

If that seems OK to you, let me know, and we'll do it, because andy_g also accepts that as fair - if not, you can escalate the complaint to the Help Desk, but I'm not sure you'll get a different answer there.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Zaph

Scofflaw wrote: »

If that seems OK to you, let me know, and we'll do it, because andy_g also accepts that as fair - if not, you can escalate the complaint to the Help Desk, but I'm not sure you'll get a different answer there.

Actually all dispute resolution takes place in this forum rather than Help Desk, so the escalation is to an admin here. It's easier to have everything under the one thread rather than trying to follow things across two different forums.

Scofflaw

Zaph wrote: »

Actually all dispute resolution takes place in this forum rather than Help Desk, so the escalation is to an admin here. It's easier to have everything under the one thread rather than trying to follow things across two different forums.

Old habits die hard! Appreciate the correction.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bladeruner

Thanks for the offer Scofflaw,
To bring this matter to a close I am prepared to meet you halfway but before I do I would like to reply to the main thrust of your last post.

It is widely known ( in the general public as well as the tightly knit aviation world ) exactly how Ryanair does business.
Everyone that read my post knew (without even having to research it ) that it related to a fact of the Ryanair Business Model , you know its factual and Andy_g knows it factual .
No matter how hard I try , I cannot see my post as bashing but merely high lighting something every one already knows goes on with abandon.
There was no malice in my statement , it was the closing remark in a post examining the situation in Northern Ireland.
Ryanair has pulled out of so many airports (or threatened to ) so many times around europe that I could no more feel remorse for saying that the sun will come up tomorrow.
The fact is that it is always some one or event (rather then an under performing route(s) ) that necessitates Ryanairs withdrawal from an airport , it is a business practice which deserves to be put in the spot light particularly seeing as it related to Ryanairs pullout of Belfast City airport .


Consider , the number of routes that Aer Lingus and Aer Arann chop and change every year, yet they never blame the length of the runway or the minister for transport or the pull of the tides etc

Now if on a thread regarding World War 2 I posted the following rhetorical question ,
"Did Hitler in his own mind ever make a wrong decision ? No thought Not "
would I recieve an infraction ?


Finally I would really appreciate some feedback from Andy_G , he may be busy but I have been waiting nearly a month for him to explain himself.

Regards,
Bladeruner

Scofflaw

OK, will PM andy_g with that.

cordially,
Scofflaw

bladeruner

Hi scofflaw, still waiting for Andy_g to reply.

while im here , heres a link to the latest.....

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-closure-of-marseille-base


regards,
Bladeruner

Scofflaw

bladeruner wrote: »

Hi scofflaw, still waiting for Andy_g to reply.

while im here , heres a link to the latest.....

http://www.ryanair.com/en/news/ryanair-announces-closure-of-marseille-base


regards,
Bladeruner

Hi bladeruner,

you may or may not get a response from andy_g - however, he agreed to reverse the infraction, and has done so!

cordially,
Scofflaw

bladeruner

good stuff,
thanks for following it up scofflaw.
Appreciate the leg work

I dont mind whether I get a reason if the infraction is gone.