Wexford Quay tramway

dowlingm

Before Streetview, I knew that there was a 5mph tramway along Wexford Quay towards Rosslare. I had even seen a few pictures of it but until now did not appreciate just how far the track and road run adjacent such as that it rejoins the road south of Crescent Quay. At that speed it must take a brutally long time to traverse?

What kind of separation would be required to increase the track speed through the town to a reasonable limit - even 30mph - and what would that cost?

It would have some impact on the road at Paul and Custom House Quays and/or the parking on the quays themselves, but if saving the railway is important to Councillor Joe Ryan and his buds at Wexford Town Council, that should be negotiable... right?

Edit: hadn't seen this discussion before posting this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056024717&page=5

corktina

Wexford used to really special but then they filled in that lovely little picture-skew harbour.....

Cookie_Monster

corktina wrote: »

Wexford used to really special but then they filled in that lovely little picture-skew harbour.....

it's not filled in...
there's a lot of silt in it but it's still used for row boats and such

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Dublin,+County+Fingal,+Ireland&ll=52.338191,-6.45818&spn=0.002635,0.010375&t=h&z=17

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=wexford&sll=53.344104,-6.267494&sspn=0.164793,0.663986&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Wexford,+County+Wexford,+Ireland&ll=52.337856,-6.458597&spn=0.002635,0.010375&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=52.337856,-6.458597&cbp=12,0,,0,5&photoid=po-28389157

corktina

my mistake...could have sworn it was filled in last time i went there...

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

Before Streetview, I knew that there was a 5mph tramway along Wexford Quay towards Rosslare. I had even seen a few pictures of it but until now did not appreciate just how far the track and road run adjacent such as that it rejoins the road south of Crescent Quay. At that speed it must take a brutally long time to traverse?

What kind of separation would be required to increase the track speed through the town to a reasonable limit - even 30mph - and what would that cost?

It would have some impact on the road at Paul and Custom House Quays and/or the parking on the quays themselves, but if saving the railway is important to Councillor Joe Ryan and his buds at Wexford Town Council, that should be negotiable... right?

Edit: hadn't seen this discussion before posting this: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056024717&page=5

It would be completely impossible and you would need to look at the situation on the ground to see that. To increase speeds would mean erecting pallisade fencing along the whole quayside. The savings would be minimal - end of discussion. Can't believe as someone who posts a lot on this forum that you're not familiar with this route.

dowlingm

I don't know what level of familiarity you expected JD - as I indicated I had seen photos (such as fellas hanging out of windows with pints) but not appreciated how long the quays run because until recently I had only visited Wexford without need to go that far into town.

As for the fencing, they have it already south of the station.

It's not like I'm saying it should be doubletracked or something mad, just improved enough to make it both safer and somewhat faster, perhaps limited to the part south of Crescent Quay bridge where it seems to be nothing but car park behind it. I'm sure inching along and looking at the cars beside is great to do occasionally but it must get annoying to regular travellers from Rosslare.

steamengine

dowlingm wrote: »

Before Streetview, I knew that there was a 5mph tramway along Wexford Quay towards Rosslare. I had even seen a few pictures of it but until now did not appreciate just how far the track and road run adjacent such as that it rejoins the road south of Crescent Quay. At that speed it must take a brutally long time to traverse........
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When your on a train it does seem like an age, but on checking the town map the 'adjacent to road' section is approx 0.5 miles, which gives 6 minutes at the 5 mph restriction. Personally I think its one of the unique interesting features of the Dublin/Rosslare line.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

I don't know what level of familiarity you expected JD - as I indicated I had seen photos (such as fellas hanging out of windows with pints) but not appreciated how long the quays run because until recently I had only visited Wexford without need to go that far into town.

As for the fencing, they have it already south of the station.

It's not like I'm saying it should be doubletracked or something mad, just improved enough to make it both safer and somewhat faster, perhaps limited to the part south of Crescent Quay bridge where it seems to be nothing but car park behind it. I'm sure inching along and looking at the cars beside is great to do occasionally but it must get annoying to regular travellers from Rosslare.

The fencing you refer to is within the station limits and once past the crossing at the bridge there is none. There are NO regular passengers from Rosslare to be annoyed and I'm sure most visitors travelling along the quay quite enjoy the novelty of it. There are far more basic things that need doing to improve the Rosslare line but none of them will ever happen under CIE/IE tenure.

1. Trains need to be doubled in size i.e. 2 x 3 car 22000 set.
2. A proper dining car needs to be included on some trains.
3. Frequency needs to be increased south of Gorey.
4. 1st class/business class needs to be introduced.
5. Fastrack needs to be introduced.
6. Aggressive marketing is needed. The promotion of the line for tourists should be a priority but of course with the far sighted closure of the Sth.Wexford that is made even more difficult.

As I say none of this will happen and The Save the Rail Campaign will go the way of the Dodo. Expect the line south of Arklow to be on the closure hit list again soon.

dowlingm

Let's pretend for a second that this was a LUAS track, not heavy rail. What speed would be permitted under light rail rules for a similar configuration, such as exists in central Dublin? The same as the adjoining road?

corktina

Judgement Day wrote: »

The fencing you refer to is within the station limits and once past the crossing at the bridge there is none. There are NO regular passengers from Rosslare to be annoyed and I'm sure most visitors travelling along the quay quite enjoy the novelty of it. There are far more basic things that need doing to improve the Rosslare line but none of them will ever happen under CIE/IE tenure.

1. Trains need to be doubled in size i.e. 2 x 3 car 22000 set.
2. A proper dining car needs to be included on some trains.
3. Frequency needs to be increased south of Gorey.
4. 1st class/business class needs to be introduced.
5. Fastrack needs to be introduced.
6. Aggressive marketing is needed. The promotion of the line for tourists should be a priority but of course with the far sighted closure of the Sth.Wexford that is made even more difficult.

As I say none of this will happen and The Save the Rail Campaign will go the way of the Dodo. Expect the line south of Arklow to be on the closure hit list again soon.

theres a billion reasons to close the lane which require no effort at all. All the ways of keeping it open require someone to get off their butt and do something. Next stop Mauritius I think

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

...........
1. Trains need to be doubled in size i.e. 2 x 3 car 22000 set.
2. A proper dining car needs to be included on some trains.
3. Frequency needs to be increased south of Gorey.
4. 1st class/business class needs to be introduced.
5. Fastrack needs to be introduced.
6. Aggressive marketing is needed. The promotion of the line for tourists should be a priority but of course with the far sighted closure of the Sth.Wexford that is made even more difficult.
..............

+1........and this is the very year the government dished out free 4 day 'Golden Trekker' rail tickets to EU pensioners, and closed the South Wexford line at the same time. There was an interesting article about two months ago in the Sunday Times where a retired English couple recounted their four day experience on our unique STAR shaped railway system. They managed however to loop their way from Galway to Limerick, then on to Killarney, with some comments on the length of time it took to accomplish this section of their trip. It begs the question - How serious are we about promoting tourism if we are going to shut down the southern part of the best scenic rail route in this country, and as a result its ferry port connection ??? :rolleyes:

foggy_lad

Forget fasttrack as irish rail staff was never compatible with anything more than local parcel delivery for the gentry that could afford it. Tourists? Where are they going to come from? The numbers needed to make the line work would never visit and could not be catered for in the area.

Forget pipe dreams of yesteryear and concentrate on keeping the irish rail jobs that are on the line by cutting away the detritus and only run trains as far as gorey as any further there really is no demand.

Judgement Day

foggy_lad wrote: »

Forget fasttrack as irish rail staff was never compatible with anything more than local parcel delivery for the gentry that could afford it. Tourists? Where are they going to come from? The numbers needed to make the line work would never visit and could not be catered for in the area.

Forget pipe dreams of yesteryear and concentrate on keeping the irish rail jobs that are on the line by cutting away the detritus and only run trains as far as gorey as any further there really is no demand.

I'll go with that as long as trains on the Heuston/Waterford line terminate at Athy.

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

+1........and this is the very year the government dished out free 4 day 'Golden Trekker' rail tickets to EU pensioners, and closed the South Wexford line at the same time. There was an interesting article about two months ago in the Sunday Times where a retired English couple recounted their four day experience on our unique STAR shaped railway system. They managed however to loop their way from Galway to Limerick, then on to Killarney, with some comments on the length of time it took to accomplish this section of their trip. It begs the question - How serious are we about promoting tourism if we are going to shut down the southern part of the best scenic rail route in this country, and as a result its ferry port connection ??? :rolleyes:

You and I may be serious about promoting Ireland as a tourist destination but those in Failte Ireland/Tourism Ireland etc are only interested in marking time until they get their pensions. What that idiot Mary Hanafin (Minister for Tourism) knows about the subject you could write on the back of an envelope - oops I forgot that's what FF/Greens usually use for drawing up their plans on.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

You and I may be serious about promoting Ireland as a tourist destination but those in Failte Ireland/Tourism Ireland etc are only interested in marking time until they get their pensions. What that idiot Mary Hanafin (Minister for Tourism) knows about the subject you could write on the back of an envelope - oops I forgot that's what FF/Greens usually use for drawing up their plans on.

The whole country should be serious about promoting tourism going forward, such are the dire economic circumstances that pertain presently. There is no point in hacking off essential parts of the rail infrastructure that feed into tourism, and then wonder why there are no tourists. As stated before, for all the years this country has engaged in tourism, we still have no world class 'theme park' with a big dipper etc. Its not all about yesteryear pipe dream preserved railways, though at least one broad gauge line wouldn't go astray. Ah! cycling - loads of backers for this one, but has anyone thought of how loads of foreign cycling tourists using the ferries could bring their bikes to the designated cycle tracks in the West ? By rail perhaps ??? :rolleyes:

The link to the 'Golden Trekker' rail experience mentioned above.
http://www.tripideas.co.uk/posts/view/5751/Ireland-Take-a-free-ride-around-Emerald-Isle

dowlingm

If people want a big dipper there's loads of places around the world that have those and more convenient to get to from places with money to spend. Ireland has to sell what is unique to Ireland. There's loads of people at my work who have visited Ireland or want to and I can tell you none of them will be looking for a big dipper when they get there or missed one when they were here.

Historic and/or scenic railways might work but they have to be done right - i.e. not slapped together by enthusiasts who could go belly up at any time but professionally run by serious people out to make a few bob. The problem is now that even if there are good ideas out there, where's the capital/borrowing capacity to make them reality? The time to do that was 5 years ago, but the tourist industry in Ireland was busy jacking up their prices and making game of tourists generally rather than worrying about any future hard times.

I also have my doubts that rail-ferry tourism is in any way sustainable. Maybe if cruise ships came into Rosslare the way they do Cobh and had runs up to Avoca and over to Dunbrody Abbey with a shuttle to JFK Park or something, but realistically to make money out of stuff like that you'd want to be able to fill a 4 or even 6 car DMU set every single time - not praying that this ferry has more than 10 oul ones on board who are on a free pass of some kind.

By the way, can anyone answer my q above about light rail rules?

steamengine

dowlingm wrote: »

If people want a big dipper there's loads of places around the world that have those and more convenient to get to from places with money to spend. Ireland has to sell what is unique to Ireland. There's loads of people at my work who have visited Ireland or want to and I can tell you none of them will be looking for a big dipper when they get there or missed one when they were here.

Ok - then the country then misses out on revenue from the type of tourists who are attracted by theme parks. Like any other specialist type of tourism there are roller coaster enthusiasts who travel world wide to pursue their hobby. Also theme parks are ideal for short family breaks. Examples - Blackpool / Alton Towers.

We don't have a monopoly on scenery, drink or music, so what is unique to Ireland ?

Historic and/or scenic railways might work but they have to be done right - i.e. not slapped together by enthusiasts who could go belly up at any time but professionally run by serious people out to make a few bob. The problem is now that even if there are good ideas out there, where's the capital/borrowing capacity to make them reality? The time to do that was 5 years ago, but the tourist industry in Ireland was busy jacking up their prices and making game of tourists generally rather than worrying about any future hard times.

Dublin Rosslare ready to rock ! Agree totally about the rip off - value for money is the only way forward.

I also have my doubts that rail-ferry tourism is in any way sustainable. Maybe if cruise ships came into Rosslare the way they do Cobh and had runs up to Avoca and over to Dunbrody Abbey with a shuttle to JFK Park or something, but realistically to make money out of stuff like that you'd want to be able to fill a 4 or even 6 car DMU set every single time - not praying that this ferry has more than 10 oul ones on board who are on a free pass of some kind.

Rail ferry tourism may not be directly sustainable but one part of this equation is proving successful - re - the co-op run continental ferry mv Julia which has re-ignited tourism in the West Cork area. Also on a recent liner visit to Cork harbour, IR did in fact lay on special trains to bring the passengers from Cobh into Cork city. Its the overall tourist spend which matters at the end of the day.

We can't go on saying 'this won't work or that won't work' particularly when tried and tested models from other countries show the opposite.