Website Help Hostage!

sinead1

My Dad got a guy in Wexford to do a website for him in 2008, its not great and my dad does not have a clue how do maintain his site so he pay's €30 a month to him to do all the techy stuff.

Needless to say the website has numerous spelling mistakes (which he maintains are done on purpose) looks like a 12 year did it and certainly has had nothing done to it a long time. It was done on a macro media template so not a lot of design went into it on the guys side.

I have my own site with black knight (whom I am very happy with) and can maintain my own site and my dad in these recessionary times would like me to fix up his site and look after it for him.

He has no contract with this person, he pays him every year to renue the domain name and webspace as my dad has no clue how to do this, my dad is the owner of the domain but the guy is refusing to give over the information required to get into the control panel.

He is giving my dad a subtle message that he knows how to mess up a site, which is intimidating my dad (and of course not legal). The host provider was contacted but they said as my dad did not buy it off them directly they can give out the info. (this is normal practice and I understand there might be good reason for this)

I have asked politely myself for the info but he says he wants the site for his portfolio! (not something I think he would be proud of!)

Should I just buy a new name and some space (from you of course!) and just do up a new site? As the one he has is not endearing to any customers (all feedback has been very negative).
or is there another route I can take?

We want the website down if we cant change it ourselves.

I can pm you the site and any other info that might be helpful.

yours faithfully

Hopping Mad!

mneylon

Is the domain a .com or a .ie?

Is the domain registered with your father's details? ie. check the WHOIS here to see: http://yourdomain.ie/

link8r

sinead1 wrote: »

I have asked politely myself for the info but he says he wants the site for his portfolio! (not something I think he would be proud of!)

Should I just buy a new name and some space (from you of course!) and just do up a new site? As the one he has is not endearing to any customers (all feedback has been very negative).
or is there another route I can take?

We want the website down if we cant change it ourselves.

Hopping Mad!

That's awful treatment. While it helps if two parties have a contract, I find this person's behaviour and treatment quite unacceptable! I would be equally hopping mad.

In the absence of a contract, your father might be a in a good position to say that he's bought and paid for this service therefore it's his, even if the vendor was "hosting" it.

If he's claiming he needs it for his portfolio (sweet Jesus!) then you can point out:

1. He can keep it in his portfolio (which doesn't require him to own the site)
2. if people contact your father as a reference, its not going to be very helpful to him

You may need some good legal advice and get a strongly worded letter. This is from actual experience and you could discuss this route: with your legal advisor: Your father could apply for a Court Injunction for immediate relief. The costs of this could also be applied to him in the same action. The grounds for this would be that this is part of your father's business and that it would affect it's livelihood and put jobs at stake. You don't need to notify the party of the action and it can be granted without their presence. It is costly (about €7k-€10k) and may require a barrister, so this may frighten him.

Otherwise, you could get a to-HTML conversion done. This copies the website and content in HTML as delivered in a browser and re-home it somewhere else.

mneylon

link8r wrote: »

That's awful treatment. While it helps if two parties have a contract, I find this person's behaviour and treatment quite unacceptable! I would be equally hopping mad.

In the absence of a contract, your father might be a in a good position to say that he's bought and paid for this service therefore it's his, even if the vendor was "hosting" it.

If you pay someone for something, in this case a service, then there is a contract.

link8r wrote: »

You may need some good legal advice and get a strongly worded letter. This is from actual experience and you could discuss this route: with your legal advisor: Your father could apply for a Court Injunction for immediate relief. The costs of this could also be applied to him in the same action. The grounds for this would be that this is part of your father's business and that it would affect it's livelihood and put jobs at stake. You don't need to notify the party of the action and it can be granted without their presence. It is costly (about €7k-€10k) and may require a barrister, so this may frighten him.

Otherwise, you could get a to-HTML conversion done. This copies the website and content in HTML as delivered in a browser and re-home it somewhere else.

None of the above is of much use without the domain name.

If the domain is a .ie and is properly registered, then moving it should not be an issue.
If the domain is a .com then it could be more problematic, as it might be registered with someone else's details, which would make getting it back without legal action nigh on impossible

link8r

Hi BK,

yes, there is a contract, I meant a separate document, as in a signed contract with actual agreements and title of ownership for example.

The content isn't entirely useless without the domain - but agreed the domain is clearly important.

I think we're all trying to get the same result here.

sinead1

Thanks for the feedback, the domain is a .ie, there was no written contract my dad used to go to this guys garden center and he offered to do up a site for him, my dad was thrilled he was going to have his own site. It was done up and the bill was given to him around the €900 mark.

I can tell you I nearly fainted he was supposed to be doing a favour, then my dad tells me I look at the site , Its bad, tell dad no way don't pay I can do up the same on the same template for free, but too late he had even set up a monthly payment for maintenance of the site! My dad is so gullible.
He even had the cheek then to set up a "company" and put the pages in my dads root directory!!

I am not a webdesigner but through trial ,error, a few night courses and hours on the computer I know a little so I am able to do up a new site for him, I wan't to get that site off before it does anymore dammage. I wrote last night to the host to change the admistrive contacts for the domain name which is in my dads name so I am hoping at least I can use that for a new site.

Do you think this would work. If you want to look at this site to see what he paid for pm me.... I dont want to post it up as I have a feeling (strong) that he is a bit of a nutter as he keeps telling my dad the weird and wonderfull ways he can damage peoples site's (a non subtle threat I would think)

sinead1

sorry got carried away. The domain name is registered in my dads name, I looked up the who is and it is his registered with www.register.ie so I have emailed them for the administrator contact details to be given to him (dad). I might get him to ring them on Monday to confirm it.

What bothers me is the site is so bad, we don't care that he was using my dads space for other business (not just his own) we just want the site back so I can tidy it up till I get something better done, even just fixing the spelling mistakes and fixing the font (i don't think he knows how to use a style sheet!). sorry there I go again!

mneylon

As the domain is in your father's name you don't need to involve the current registrar. They may not be able to help directly, as the domain is probably in the other person's account.

You can, however, transfer the domain to us directly. Please see: http://renewyour.ie/#TransferYour

Basically your father can sign the authorisation and get it moved to us.

Once the domain is with us you can put together a new site .. the old site can be taken offline, as you / he will control the domain from our end..

dlofnep

I hate charlatans. Too many in this business. Transfer the domain from that guy, and get a proper website up and running. Keep record of anything he says to you, including any subtle threats.

sinead1

I followed your advice and have just transfered the domain and now dad is just doing up the letter I think he will have to send it snail mail as I said not very techy! Thanks for your help!!

mneylon

sinead1 wrote: »

I followed your advice and have just transfered the domain and now dad is just doing up the letter I think he will have to send it snail mail as I said not very techy! Thanks for your help!!

Can you fax it or even take a photo of it?

Whatever happens - please ensure that it is signed and that it clearly states the domain name

mneylon

dlofnep wrote: »

I hate charlatans. Too many in this business. Transfer the domain from that guy, and get a proper website up and running. Keep record of anything he says to you, including any subtle threats.

Unfortunately it's one of the biggest problems with the internet industry.
The barrier to entry is pretty low and there are very few "trusted" credentials out there that consumers can rely on.

There's a ranty blogpost in that somewhere

dlofnep

Blacknight wrote: »

Unfortunately it's one of the biggest problems with the internet industry.
The barrier to entry is pretty low and there are very few "trusted" credentials out there that consumers can rely on.

There's a ranty blogpost in that somewhere

Oh I agree. My degree is in development, but the amount of amateur stuff out there is amazing. It's not uncommon to see people rip web-templates off the internet, and charge an extortionate amount of money when developing a website that uses them. It's consumer ignorance more than anything - the consumer just isn't wise to these practices in general.

I just do work for my family or friends now - at least they know I won't rip them off. My uncle was approached for a website for a hobby of his - with an asking price of 1100, for 5 static pages. I checked out the website's portfolio, and all of them were using templated designs. I'd feel like a thief if I asked someone for 1100 for 5 static pages, let alone - ones that were based on a template

sinead1

Blacknight wrote: »

Can you fax it or even take a photo of it?

Whatever happens - please ensure that it is signed and that it clearly states the domain name

My dad is driving up to me from Wexford as I type I am going to get him to write it out and I will scan it and send it over via email! its only a 4 hour round trip:D but he will be delighted, will I buy web-space now for the domain? should it be in his name to link the two together? Also who do I sent the email too?

Guys I really appreciate all the help and advice! I've been with Black Night Solutions ltd since 2007 and have had a great experience with them, I got anyone who was setting up their small business websites to go with them so I am so glad I have been proved right! You are great!! And Yep I think there should be a register of all "good designers" but I am sure its impossible! There should be an advice blog somewhere so people can have a look at some good portfolios!!

Thanks again

mneylon

Sinead

When you order the domain transfer via our site you should get emails from us with details of how to upload the scanned transfer document. If you can't see it please email it to sales@blacknight.com, though the upload thing is more efficient as it associates it with the domain immediately ..

As for the hosting - it's up to you, but it might be better if he had a separate account from you .. your call really, though messy if you try to move stuff around later

Glad to hear you're happy with our services

Michele

sinead1

Thanks BK got the confirmation letter and just scanned and emaild through the letter and have the hard copy to fax over, if I get the email tomorrow telling me to upload I will as you said to link it. I will get the space in his name as yes I would get it all mixed up!!! At least the light is at the end of the tunnel after a tiresome journey..... thanks couldn't have done it without you!

mneylon

If you have issues just ring the office during office hours .. You shouldn't though .. it's pretty easy