Is this racist?

looksee

I am absolutely gobsmacked by the reaction to a topic I posted in the Waterford City forum today. I was commenting on the fact that there is a large sign in the window of a property in Waterford that says 'No Mexicans'. Its very much in a student area and I hoped that maybe someone might know who had put it up, hopefully it was a very poor joke, and they could be persuaded to take it down.

The response has been 100% - stop fussing, lighten up, it doesn't matter. So should I just shut up and ignore it, or can any one else see the implications of posting even joking racist signs?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056048824

looksee

So apparently its a football sign. Well of course everyone will know that, and no-one is going to be offended, because its funny. Apparently there is nothing to discuss. And anyway there are no Mexicans in Waterford...

Dudess

OP, it really does seem to be just a wacky student joke - and probably wouldn't be done if there were a lot of Mexicans in the area.

therewillbe

"Hey Gringo.I comming a get ye":eek:

Denerick

Its a silly student joke.

We seem to be over-run by the easily offendable brigade recently.

looksee

I am now intrigued by the obtuseness of pretty well all the replies to this topic here and in the Waterford forum. I have given up on the Waterford forum as obviously we have hit the 'waterford couldn't possibly be racist' nerve.

However the argument that 'you shouldn't make accusations without knowing the background' that was made there is an indication of the way people are looking at this. It doesn't matter why the sign was put up, it is divisive and unnecessary. People will not enquire into the deeper meaning they will just see something that looks like a racist comment.

And no, I am not 'easily offended', but I am trying to point out that one person's joke is another person's hurt. If someone lives in a foreign country they could well be vulnerable and it seems unnecessary to indulge one's 'sense of humour' at the expense of another persons' sense of inclusion.

I commented on the fact that there has been (offended) reference on Boards to the 'No dogs, no Irish' signs and was assured that they were not a joke, but 'No Mexicans' is a joke - that distinction is a little subtle.

prinz

looksee wrote: »

I commented on the fact that there has been (offended) reference on Boards to the 'No dogs, no Irish' signs and was assured that they were not a joke, but 'No Mexicans' is a joke - that distinction is a little subtle.

The No dogs, No Irish signs were not jokes. Nor was it one sign in one student house.:rolleyes:

This one, and the corresponding sign in, presumably, another student house nearby seems to be some sort of ill advised joke. To assume a racist motive is a bit premature. Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't.

mikemac

I orginally thought it was to do with football but it probably wasn't

To call someone a Mexican is realy saying they come into your area to work. Flood across the border

I've heard Limerick people call people from Tipp, Mexicans as they came to the city every day.
And you have Wexford and Kilkenny not far from Waterford at all.

Sure wasn't there a Kilkenny councillor who compared Waterford council to Nazis when they tried to redraw Waterford City boundaries.
That was back in 2005.

All the same, lighten up
Probably just a bunch of students

Dudess

looksee wrote: »

I am now intrigued by the obtuseness of pretty well all the replies to this topic here and in the Waterford forum.

Presumably that simply means you don't like people disagreeing with you?

I have given up on the Waterford forum as obviously we have hit the 'waterford couldn't possibly be racist' nerve.

Yeah, you don't like people disagreeing with you - that seems to be your real issue here. And the passive-aggressive "hit a nerve" comment thrown in too. It doesn't look that way at all, nobody on that thread gave an indication that they are unable to admit there's racism in Waterford (as anywhere) - I haven't heard of a racism problem in Waterford by the way, but I know that doesn't mean there isn't any racism there.

no, I am not 'easily offended'

It looks like you are - and that you can't see an obvious joke, I noticed it on the thread in your sig.

but I am trying to point out that one person's joke is another person's hurt.
If someone lives in a foreign country they could well be vulnerable and it seems unnecessary to indulge one's 'sense of humour' at the expense of another persons' sense of inclusion.

Agreed, but it's not like there's a significant Mexican population in Waterford so why should this joke, which could have some hilarious meaning for the people involved, not be indulged in, in case a Mexican person might venture into the area?

I commented on the fact that there has been (offended) reference on Boards to the 'No dogs, no Irish' signs and was assured that they were not a joke, but 'No Mexicans' is a joke - that distinction is a little subtle.

Those signs were in places that had a huge Irish immigrant population - you're not comparing like with like.
All people are saying is that there are far worse things to get offended about. I'm watching Mississippi Burning now - jeez, now THERE is racism...

tony1kenobi

looksee wrote: »

I am now intrigued by the obtuseness of pretty well all the replies to this topic here and in the Waterford forum. I have given up on the Waterford forum as obviously we have hit the 'waterford couldn't possibly be racist' nerve.

However the argument that 'you shouldn't make accusations without knowing the background' that was made there is an indication of the way people are looking at this. It doesn't matter why the sign was put up, it is divisive and unnecessary. People will not enquire into the deeper meaning they will just see something that looks like a racist comment.

And no, I am not 'easily offended', but I am trying to point out that one person's joke is another person's hurt. If someone lives in a foreign country they could well be vulnerable and it seems unnecessary to indulge one's 'sense of humour' at the expense of another persons' sense of inclusion.

I commented on the fact that there has been (offended) reference on Boards to the 'No dogs, no Irish' signs and was assured that they were not a joke, but 'No Mexicans' is a joke - that distinction is a little subtle.

You already said there are no Mexicans in Waterford......if I burn a cross in my front yard and there are no opressed blacks to see it......can I still wipe my arse on a rabbit?

looksee

OK, I will say that there is nothing racist about a sign that says 'no mexicans' because its a joke. Right. That is the consensus, and I have no sense of humour. You are all right and I am wrong, I stand corrected.

Dudess

Toys... pram... out of. You shouldn't take it so personally when people disagree with you - it's not meant as an attack.

looksee

And I don't feel inclined to respond to sanctimonious, patronising crap.

metrovelvet

Mexicans aren't on the Irish PC protected species list. You have to be Arab, Muslim, African, for the privalige.

That's the real reason.

Dudess

looksee wrote: »

And I don't feel inclined to respond to sanctimonious, patronising crap.

It's really not intended that way, just a tip - again, not a personal attack so don't take it as such.

looksee

Dudess wrote: »

It's really not intended that way, just a tip - again, not a personal attack so don't take it as such.

Dear god, you are really determined to have the last word. Would you get down off your high horse for a minute and stop jumping to conclusions.

I am not offended. I am not taking anything personally. I am puzzled that no one can see the point I am trying to make. I think if it had been a reference to blacks or gays it would have been shock-horror. But Mexicans are funny, they talk funny and they wear big hats.

Anyway since I am obviously out on a limb with this argument, I am going to drop it, but I don't need you to tell me how I feel and I don't need your 'tips'. If you have an opinion on the argument, make it, all you have done so far is criticise my approach. It you want to do amateur psychology go and do it in the appropriate forum.

Gyalist

looksee wrote: »

OK, I will say that there is nothing racist about a sign that says 'no mexicans' because its a joke. Right. That is the consensus, and I have no sense of humour. You are all right and I am wrong, I stand corrected.

Ah sure, there's no racism in Ireland.

Dudess

looksee wrote: »

I am puzzled that no one can see the point I am trying to make.

Well then why not say that instead of getting ratty with people for not agreeing with you?

I think if it had been a reference to blacks or gays it would have been shock-horror.

Because there is more likely to be a higher concentration of those groups in the area.

But Mexicans are funny, they talk funny and they wear big hats.

There are little to no Mexicans in the area and it's just a case of "Know your audience" - if there was a high number of them the way there is a relatively high number of e.g. Brazillians in Gort, yes it would be unacceptable, but there isn't.

Anyway since I am obviously out on a limb with this argument, I am going to drop it, but I don't need you to tell me how I feel and I don't need your 'tips'. If you have an opinion on the argument, make it, all you have done so far is criticise my approach. It you want to do amateur psychology go and do it in the appropriate forum.

I am simply going by your reaction which was aggressive and came across as you being offended by people not agreeing with you. This isn't me simply wanting to have the last word either, I think I've a right to defend myself when you accuse me of being sanctimonious and patronising. I offered an opinion too - I wasn't purely "out to get you".

metrovelvet

There are no Muslims in my area. Can I put up some disparaging comment on how they like 8 year old girls and want to destroy my nation?

There are no african americans or southerners in my area. Can I put up a confederate flag and burn some crosses and complain about watermelon eatin' niggas?

No Jews either. How about a swastika?

Eck, what the hell... I'll put them all up.

Dudess

metrovelvet wrote: »

There are no Muslims in my area. Can I put up some disparaging comment on how they like 8 year old girls and want to destroy my nation?

Way more inflammatory than this instance so you're not comparing like with like - ditto the swastika.

Far more Muslims and black people likely to be in the area than Mexicans too. I mean, the issue at hand is intent: do you honestly think a bunch of students attending Waterford Institute of Technology have a hate campaign waged against Mexican people? Seriously?

IMO its only racism IF they enforce the sign by barring entrance. Anything else is just the usual crap that people put up everywhere. Have you seen some of the T-Shirts sold commercially these days? If you find that sign racist, you're going to have serious issues with these "type" of T-Shirt slogans which are designed to "shock", and yet its not really such a big deal.

Out of curiosity, have any Mexicans seen and taken offense at the sign or is this just people getting annoyed on their behalf?

metrovelvet

Dudess wrote: »

Way more inflammatory than this instance so you're not comparing like with like - ditto the swastika.

Far more Muslims and black people likely to be in the area than Mexicans too. I mean, the issue at hand is intent: do you honestly think a bunch of students attending Waterford Institute of Technology have a hate campaign waged against Mexican people? Seriously?

Not in my area. There are no jews and there are no black americans and there are no muslims.

Einhard

looksee wrote: »

Dear god, you are really determined to have the last word. Would you get down off your high horse for a minute and stop jumping to conclusions.

Ahem. The words of a certain Alanis Morrisette song spring to mind...

ISAW

tony1kenobi wrote: »

You already said there are no Mexicans in Waterford......if I burn a cross in my front yard and there are no opressed blacks to see it......can I still wipe my arse on a rabbit?

AHA!
You are not fooling me! If a tree falls in that forest and there is no one there does it make a noise?

OP: What kind of "property" was this sign on. Was it a salon?
Maybe they meant "no Brazilians"?
Or perhaps the too small is to small to fit in the work "waves" i.e. what they really detest about Waterford City football club supporters?
Or maybe they are protesting at the new Kebabs at the local take away?

ISAW

looksee wrote: »

Mexicans are funny, they talk funny and they wear big hats.

I think some Mexicans might be offended by that comment. Are you going to withdraw it even if no Mexicans ever see it?

Anyway since I am obviously out on a limb with this argument, I am going to drop it, but I don't need you to tell me how I feel and I don't need your 'tips'. If you have an opinion on the argument, make it, all you have done so far is criticise my approach. It you want to do amateur psychology go and do it in the appropriate forum.

Is "no ad hominem" offensive to some people ?
what about "no racists"? Would that offend racists?

ISAW

Dudess wrote: »

Way more inflammatory than this instance so you're not comparing like with like - ditto the swastika.

Far more Muslims and black people likely to be in the area than Mexicans too. I mean, the issue at hand is intent: do you honestly think a bunch of students attending Waterford Institute of Technology have a hate campaign waged against Mexican people? Seriously?

What if there is a black Muslim Mexican in Waterford? Which comment should he be offended by?

AudreyHepburn

Guys I have to say I'm sort of on looksee's side in this.

Now the sign probably was only put up as a joke but IMO it was in poor taste. If for example a Mexican student were to walk by and see it, don't you think it might cause offense?

I wonder would you be so blase if the sign said 'No Jews' or 'No Blacks' or 'No Muslims' or something?

ISAW

metrovelvet wrote: »

there are no black americans

Cant fool me! there are no black americans in America. They call themselves afro.

ISAW

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Guys I have to say I'm sort of on looksee's side in this.

Now the sign probably was only put up as a joke but IMO it was in poor taste. If for example a Mexican student were to walk by and see it, don't you think it might cause offense?

You are going to make up your mind for them are you?

If a Mexican walked by and called in and said "what does the sign mean" and the answer was "we couldn't fit the bit which said 'should pass by here and read this sign without calling in for free for and drink and an Irish welcome' whne we put the sign up"
Do you think the Mexican would be offended?

I wonder would you be so blase if the sign said 'No Jews' or 'No Blacks' or 'No Muslims' or something?

Depends on whether the people who put it up actually would welcome jews blacks or Muslims into their house as a guest. As I stated what about "no racists" are you going to hold true to your logic and take their side too?

I-Shot-Jr

How about we let any Mexican who feels offended take care of it by themselves?

AudreyHepburn

ISAW wrote: »

You are going to make up your mind for them are you?

Erm...when did I ever say that? I simply suggested it could maybe be the case.

If a Mexican walked by and called in and said "what does the sign mean" and the answer was "we couldn't fit the bit which said 'should pass by here and read this sign without calling in for free for and drink and an Irish welcome' whne we put the sign up"
Do you think the Mexican would be offended?

Of course not, do you really think I'm that stupid?

Depends on whether the people who put it up actually would welcome jews blacks or Muslims into their house as a guest. As I stated what about "no racists" are you going to hold true to your logic and take their side too?

Well obviously racists would be offended but in that case they wouldn't have a leg to stand on would they?

CDfm

This could be a reference fairly old joke from the 80's & 90's and is Australian slang for people from Victoria. The territory almost went bankrupt and lots of them migrated to other areas.

So the Aussies call Victorians "Mexicans" and the Murray River the Rio Grande and its very tongue in cheek.

A bit similar to calling culchies culchies or people from Cork rednecks - both of which I have been called and it doesnt bother me.