Is my boss taking the piss??

monzer

I'd appreciate any advice people would have on this situation!

I have been working fulltime in the same place for 3 and a half years! My rate of pay was roughly 500euro after tax which was payed into my bank account.
In April of this year my hours were reduced to a 3 day week, I would have expected my wages to be reduced to 300euro but because I now fall into a different tax bracket it comes out at roughly 330euro.

Over the past few weeks my boss has needed me last minute to cover some extra days which he would pay me in cash, I agreed as I didn't think it would be a regular occurance. I have done 5 extra days in total.
I should also mention I am receiving job seekers benefit of 98euro per week, I fill out the claim forms one month in advance as my days are the same every week! I had already filled out my claims forms for this month, my boss said he would pay me in cash for the extra days.

I was expecting to recieve 100euro per day in cash as this is my daily rate when I am working a full week. I understand it's cash and that I am also receiving my job seekers benefit but the way I look at it is that even if my boss is paying me 100euro cash for each day he is still saving from not paying my PRSI and I am not having my PRSI payed for for those days plus I am using up my contributions.

After weeks of promising me he would pay me for those days I am owed, he came in today and handed me an envelope and said "there's 300 for those extra 5 days you did!" I was shocked to say the least! I questioned him about the amount and he said it's less because it's cash, and anyway I'm getting "the dole" too! I got a bit annoyed with him because had he told me this before I agreed to work the days then I wouldn't have worked them! I was also a bit annoyed about "the dole" comment, I explained to him that it's not the dole but claiming back my contributions which will eventually run out and I won't be entitled to it anymore, so I would have rather gotten payed legitimately and had my PRSI payed for those days too!

After speaking to him about it, I started to doubt that I was correct in what I was saying. I'd like to see what other people think...? Do you think my boss is giving me a fair amount by paying 60euro cash per day?

iseethelight

So you were getting 500 per week for 5 days. Now you get 330- 3 days +98 per week + 60 per day So if you work 5 days now you get a total of 548. I know the 60 don't look great on its own but I cant see a complaint that really stands up.

monzer

The way I see it is, I'm claiming for my contributions payed. These won't last forever and when they run out they are gone! So instead of having 5 more contributions payed I have just used 5!!
Whatever I am claiming is not any of my bosses business in my opinion, it has absolutely nothing to do with them! They are already saving themselves 2 days of pay and PRSI by not having me work for those 2 days! So, if they want me to work for those days for cash even if they payed me 100euro per day they would still be saving themselves money on my PRSI and whatever other VAT etc they pay on employees (I don't know exactly how this works!!)

I know when you look at the money side of things, yea I did make 50euro extra those weeks, but the bigger picture is my prsi wasn't payed, I had to use up my contributions and my boss got very cheap labour!

ronkmonster

Don't work anymore extra days in the future if he won't pay you the correct rate. If it's only the last few weeks it has happened maybe they do have need of you for 5 days again.

cee_jay

monzer wrote: »

I was expecting to recieve 100euro per day in cash as this is my daily rate when I am working a full week. I understand it's cash and that I am also receiving my job seekers benefit but the way I look at it is that even if my boss is paying me 100euro cash for each day he is still saving from not paying my PRSI and I am not having my PRSI payed for for those days plus I am using up my contributions.

After weeks of promising me he would pay me for those days I am owed, he came in today and handed me an envelope and said "there's 300 for those extra 5 days you did!" I was shocked to say the least! I questioned him about the amount and he said it's less because it's cash, and anyway I'm getting "the dole" too! I got a bit annoyed with him because had he told me this before I agreed to work the days then I wouldn't have worked them! I was also a bit annoyed about "the dole" comment, I explained to him that it's not the dole but claiming back my contributions which will eventually run out and I won't be entitled to it anymore, so I would have rather gotten payed legitimately and had my PRSI payed for those days too!

After speaking to him about it, I started to doubt that I was correct in what I was saying. I'd like to see what other people think...? Do you think my boss is giving me a fair amount by paying 60euro cash per day?

First of all you are committing welfare fraud. There's no point in justifying it to yourself - you are not entitled to Jobseeker's Benefit for the days you have worked. Even if you send in a monthly docket, you can always write to them and advise you actually worked extra days.

As for being a fair amount, look at it as being tax free and into your hand, if you are not happy don't agree to do it in future. If you are caught you are the one with the overpayment and the chance of being prosecuted not your boss.

hickory

By paying you cash he can't claim it as an expense for the company and therefore he himself will pay more tax. So if he is a sole trader and pays high rate of tax he is going to have to pay another 30 euro tax this year meaning having you working cash only cost 90 euro.

Therefore if you had got the 100 it would have cost him 150. Therefore in order to pay you full wages you would have needed to come off the dole.

tenchi-fan

It just shows the state of the welfare system when someone earning €500 a week moves to a 3 day week and is only €72 worse off. Then they illegally work cash in hand and complain their income that week was only €550. If I were your boss I wouldn't have paid you anything for the extra days - he's one of the taxpayers you're ripping off.

kaymin

cAr0l wrote: »

First of all you are committing welfare fraud. There's no point in justifying it to yourself - you are not entitled to Jobseeker's Benefit for the days you have worked. Even if you send in a monthly docket, you can always write to them and advise you actually worked extra days.

As for being a fair amount, look at it as being tax free and into your hand, if you are not happy don't agree to do it in future. If you are caught you are the one with the overpayment and the chance of being prosecuted not your boss.

The employer is obliged to operate PAYE correctly so the employer would not be immune from prosecution. And I doubt very much that the employer won't be deducting the payments he's made in calculating his own income / profits. In fairness to the OP she's stated that she would prefer to have been paid legitimately and I think that's what she should insist on in the future.

monzer wrote: »

I explained to him that it's not the dole but claiming back my contributions which will eventually run out and I won't be entitled to it anymore, so I would have rather gotten payed legitimately and had my PRSI payed for those days too!

dudara

Sorry to do this, but it has been annoying me. The past tense of "to pay" is "paid" not "payed".

Secondly, you agreed to take cash for a job which you were not declaring to the Social Welfare. You can't really turn around later with the "Béal Bocht" and want it another way.

Long term, put it down to experience and say that you will only work officially in future.

monzer

As I previously said, this will not be a regular occurrence! I had already sent my claim forms in for the month! I spoke with my boss about this again afterwards and told him if there are ever any extra hours I want them to go through the books, his response was that he couldn't afford to pay me through the books! That's fine, I understand that times are tough but he should have told me that before asking me to work all the extra time, he hardly thought I expected to be paid almost half of what I was getting all along, times are tough yes
but tough ****, i get the work done and that is my rate I'm not a charity!
For all of you giving out about me "screwing the system" come down off your high horses! Before getting put on a 3 day week I worked and always payed my taxes, was never on the dole or claimed for anything! This was a one off, save your energy for the people who are actually screwing the system!!
Thanks for the help!!!!!
oh and dudara cheers for the spelling lessons! :rolleyes:

monzer

tenchi-fan wrote: »

It just shows the state of the welfare system when someone earning €500 a week moves to a 3 day week and is only €72 worse off. Then they illegally work cash in hand and complain their income that week was only €550. If I were your boss I wouldn't have paid you anything for the extra days - he's one of the taxpayers you're ripping off.

Yes that is the system, I didn't invent it, that is what I am entitled to! Yes I can claim €98, not forever though, it does run out! You would also be entitled to this (if you pay tax that is)!
He shouldn't have payed me atall because I'm ripping off the tax payers? Get a grip, I am one of those tax payers!

tenchi-fan

Monzer, stop trying to justify it. You were pulling a fast one and you got stung.

There is no reason why the cash could not have gone through payroll, and even if your claim went in there was nothing stopping you from repaying the amount you were not entitled to.

meathgal2010

You should have agreed the pay per day BEFORE you did the work!

the_syco

I think people are reading this the wrong way.

OP did extra work.
OP filled in the forms for extra work, so he'd be paid by the book.
OP got paid under the table, as boss didn't seem to want revenue to know that he has a person on extra days.

Now, I reckon the boss paid you in cash, so that he could get away with paying you less, as you can't really complain that you got less under the table than you usually would.

3DataModem

To answer your two questions;

1. You are better off for less work, partially because you and your boss are both fraudsters. I suggest you contact the SW and tell them you worked the additional days, pay income tax and PRSI on the money, and get over it.

2. 60 per day sounds fine under the circumstances. You agreed extra work without agreeing rate of pay. He's giving you a cash amount appropriate to your circumstances (claiming dole, evading tax, etc).

cee_jay

monzer wrote: »

Yes that is the system, I didn't invent it, that is what I am entitled to! Yes I can claim €98, not forever though, it does run out! You would also be entitled to this (if you pay tax that is)!
He shouldn't have payed me atall because I'm ripping off the tax payers? Get a grip, I am one of those tax payers!

No you are not entitled to it because you were working. PRSI is not a saving fund for you to draw out of when you feel like it. Just because you have paid into the system does not mean you shouldn't claim it back.
To claim a day you must be unemployed on that day which you were not. You can't have your cake and eat it.