On Trial for Treason

th3 s1aught3r

In the aftermath of recent events with the banks, should senior politicians be put on trial for economic treason , having sold our countrys future down the toilet with the bailouts ?
Instead of getting golden handshakes when they leave, should the bankers involved also be on trial ?
These would not be tribunals, these would be open and criminal trials with servere penalties
My worry about this whole disaster is that no one really is being held to account. These guys will claim that they 'broke no law' , but with the damage they have done surely there needs to be consequences ?

General Zod

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

In the aftermath of recent events with the banks, should senior politicians be put on trial for economic treason , having sold our countrys future down the toilet with the bailouts ?

No, because there is no crime called economic treason.

R0ot

General Zod wrote: »

No, because there is no crime called economic treason.

Yeah but we don't seem to be able to catch them under any Fraud legislation.

General Zod

R0ot wrote: »

Yeah but we don't seem to be able to catch them under any Fraud legislation.

but, honestly, what did the senior politicians or bankers do that was fraudulent?

the problem was a toothless regulator and a culture of greed. Making new laws an then retroactively applying them is a slippery slope.

Johnny Bitte

Lenihan was on TV last night and when asked about people being areested or held resposible all he said was there were laws for those kinds of things and they are there to deal with that.

In other words **** all will be done because why would ertie Cowan or any of the other cowards let there friends or money bags go down.

And even if they were brought up do u honestly think the would get any serious punishment for this ****!

Pipe dreams my friend.

btard

They don't deserve a trial. To express my view on what should happen is possibly against the T&C's of the forum. Suffice to say it involves the railings of Leinster House.

th3 s1aught3r

General Zod wrote: »

but, honestly, what did the senior politicians or bankers do that was fraudulent?

the problem was a toothless regulator and a culture of greed. Making new laws an then retroactively applying them is a slippery slope.

Are you serious ?
The banks lied to the government about their situation on several occassions, these lies nearly collapsed the economy and may yet

orourkeda

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

In the aftermath of recent events with the banks, should senior politicians be put on trial for economic treason , having sold our countrys future down the toilet with the bailouts ?
Instead of getting golden handshakes when they leave, should the bankers involved also be on trial ?
These would not be tribunals, these would be open and criminal trials with servere penalties
My worry about this whole disaster is that no one really is being held to account. These guys will claim that they 'broke no law' , but with the damage they have done surely there needs to be consequences ?

For what? And where's your evidence?

th3 s1aught3r

orourkeda wrote: »

For what? And where's your evidence?

Michael Fingelton

orourkeda

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Michael Fingelton

Is the evidence available to first go to court and secondly gain a conviction?

onlyrocknroll

General Zod wrote: »

but, honestly, what did the senior politicians or bankers do that was fraudulent?

the problem was a toothless regulator and a culture of greed. Making new laws an then retroactively applying them is a slippery slope gross violation of civil liberties and the end of western democracy.

FYP

The government have done nothing criminally wrong (probably) and therefore can't be persecuted. The consequences that you're speaking about should be that no Fianna Fail government should ever be elected again. Here's hoping that the electorate don't have short memories.

orourkeda

onlyrocknroll wrote: »

FYP

The government have done nothing criminally wrong (probably) and therefore can't be persecuted. The consequences that you're speaking about should be that no Fianna Fail government should ever be elected again. Here's hoping that the electorate don't have short memories.

I'll only believe that when I see it.

Phill Ewinn

Stop the thread, this is ridiculous. Bailing Anglo in a time of recession was (and is) treasonous behaviour.

orourkeda

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

Stop the thread, this is ridiculous. Bailing Anglo in a time of recession was (and is) treasonous behaviour.

Most people agree that this move is economic insanity and probably immoral in some respects but to suggest criminal activity is unwise without being able to back up your comments.

Treason is betrayal of one's state and was once punishable by death. Although not punished to the same extent nowadays it's still a serious allegation.

th3 s1aught3r

orourkeda wrote: »

Treason is betrayal of one's state .

Thats precisely whats happened imo

orourkeda

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

Thats precisely whats happened imo

In your opinion maybe but how will this result in gaining a conviction for the perpetrators.

stovelid

General Zod wrote: »

No, because there is no crime called economic treason.

Oh yes, there is....in THE PEOPLE'S COURT.

orourkeda

stovelid wrote: »

Oh yes, there is....in THE PEOPLE'S COURT.

Do you think the instigators will care?

Only hitting them where it hurts is going to count for anything and this will only be done if the will exists among the people who can make it happen.

th3 s1aught3r

Ok so we have an election and FG/Labour get in. They do a term or two and then its FF all over again, same ****, over and over

ScumLord

The whole affair should be looked into by a civilian group, there's no point getting the government to do it they'll only cover up they're mistakes.

Unless something is done this will without a shadow of a doubt happen again. It only suits certain people that this kind of thing happens.

ascanbe

R0ot wrote: »

Yeah but we don't seem to be able to catch them under any Fraud legislation.

We don't seem to be trying to.
There seems to be pretty clear examples of Anglo having cooked the books in order to decieve and favourably effect share price.

Son Of A Vidic

Let's not waste more of our money on a trial, bullets are cheap.

Kennie1

ascanbe wrote: »

We don't seem to be trying to.
There seems to be pretty clear examples of Anglo having cooked the books in order to decieve and favourably effect share price.

Just to back you up, here is one instance of Anglo cooking the books:

7,200,000,000.00 that was transferred from IL&P which Anglo lodged as a deposit instead of a securtised loan...cooked book...window dressing...the green jersey??? Call it what you like but its illegal and that's a fact, Seanie and Anglo's accountants should be locked up until my children has finished paying back all the billions that has been lost.

Devolopers should also be locked up as they used the one asset as security for several loans, dont tell me that's not illegal? Why are these devolopers getting away so lightly??? Are these not the ones that borrowed the money? Are these not the ones that forced property prices up and up and left so many in negative equity while still living the high life? Take off the blinkers everyone, there is more to blame than just the banks here, accountants, legal firms, auditors... the list goes on!

And yes we are going to put our politicans on trial...Its called a "general election"!!! and if anyone votes FF/Green they should be locked up in the mental asylum. You say FG are the same as FF, how do we know, its been blood 13 years since they have been in power! by the way I voted FF in two of the last three elections but wont make that mistake again!

smellslikeshoes

All this "economic treason" "put them on trial" etc. stuff is absolute rubbish. The fact is them making a balls of the country isn't illegal. We the Irish people voted them in and even though every dog on the street hates the fact that billions of our money is being thrown in a hole we were the ones who gave those politicians the power to do it.

th3 s1aught3r

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

All this "economic treason" "put them on trial" etc. stuff is absolute rubbish. The fact is them making a balls of the country isn't illegal. We the Irish people voted them in and even though every dog on the street hates the fact that billions of our money is being thrown in a hole we were the ones who gave those politicians the power to do it.

If your answer to everything is "we elected them so we deserve it", Thats the crap that lets them keep getting away with things
We elected them to RUN the country
They were the ones who ran it into the ground

orourkeda

th3 s1aught3r wrote: »

I disagree
We elected them to RUN the country
They were the ones who ran it into the ground

Therein lies part of the problem.

This is the kind of remark that makes it seem like the irish electorate is trying to absolve itself of its share of the blame.

The simple fact remains that the irish people have got the government THEY voted for. The government didnt elect themselves.

randylonghorn

The electorate are not blameless, but at the same time, they elect based on the information available to them at the time, and the commitments made and policies outlined by the various parties.

So, were FF scrupulously honest and up-front with the electorate, or did they "spin" like a top in order to get elected? And continue to "spin" thereafter?

Let's look at a few quotes from Bertie:

RTE News, April 7th, 2006:

"The Taoiseach has said he does not see a great problem with the levels of borrowing to buy property. Mr Ahern said there had been predictions of a huge downturn in 2005. He added the bad advice given by so many resulted in some people making mistakes when they should have bought property last year. "

Irish Times, 28 April 2007:

"On the other side of the election we'll get back to normality. And I think that normality will be the soft landing. The construction projections were that we will move from something like 93,000 houses to 80-something. Now that's not going to create any kind of a difficulty."

RTE, July 2007:

"Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something."


I genuinely cannot understand how people are so ready to defend a government which has failed this country and its people so horrendously.

General Zod wrote: »

but, honestly, what did the senior politicians or bankers do that was fraudulent?

the problem was a toothless regulator and a culture of greed. Making new laws an then retroactively applying them is a slippery slope.

Who appointed the toothless regulator? Who drew his teeth? (if he had any to start with!)

Under pressure from / lobbied by whom?


As to the OP, treason might be a bit harsh, but other countries seem to feel their leaders should answer for their cock-ups ...

galwayrush

The court costs would probably be a few billion..

flutered

if aherne can not be tried for economic treason, is there some way that he can be tried for leaving that clowen cowen in charge of this country.

th3 s1aught3r

randylonghorn wrote: »

As to the OP, treason might be a bit harsh, but other countries seem to feel their leaders should answer for their cock-ups ...

It might be a harsh word, but I cannot think of a better one