Hunters blamed for alien deer invasion - Sunday Times

pedroeibar1

From the Sunday Times 26th Sept 2010.
Leave for discussion/comment or move to 'Cuttings' as you see fit.
P.

Tackleberrywho

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

From the Sunday Times 26th Sept 2010.
Leave for discussion/comment or move to 'Cuttings' as you see fit.
P.

They must really be short of good stories

Last week it was Crows watch out.

The Munties did not walk here "as we are an island"
They did not cross the shannon for the same reason.

BoarHunter

these deers are ugly. Would have been better to import some Roe deers if they really wanted to get some valuable sport game.

Birdnuts

BoarHunter wrote: »

these deers are ugly. Would have been better to import some Roe deers if they really wanted to get some valuable sport game.

How much bigger are Roe to Muntjacs??:)

Grizzly 45

They did not cross the shannon for the same reason.

One was reported shot in Clare last year in the deer returns.
Yeah,yeah,blame the hunters again!!!Without one shread of evidence as per usual...

mystique150

Put the Jack russels on them!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3DuYxt3nYM

Tackleberrywho

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

One was reported shot in Clare last year in the deer returns.
Yeah,yeah,blame the hunters again!!!Without one shread of evidence as per usual...

I never blamed hunters, I do blame man, perhaps some tree huggers did it!!

Feargal as Luimneach

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

I never blamed hunters, I do blame man, perhaps some tree huggers did it!!

God damn tree huggers, they caught them in England and released them in éire so nasty english hunters couldn't shoot them:mad:

mystique150

Well they also make good pets as can be seen in the link I posted above. We've seen chipmunks around recently too so perhaps its the pet shops and lack of government regulation we should be blaming?

http://www.biodiversityireland.ie/invasive-species-alert-chipmunk-spotted-in-waterford/

Tackleberrywho

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

God damn tree huggers, they caught them in England and released them in éire so nasty english hunters couldn't shoot them:mad:

Fergal, unless you are hugging trees no need to take offence
tree huggers released mink in Donegal, so why would they not let loose deer in Clare, they have demonstrated no cognitive thought process already. I never expected folk who break laws to adhere to logic and rules
By the way , Is it Fergal or Feargal?

Feargal as Luimneach

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Fergal, unless you are hugging trees no need to take offence
tree huggers released mink in Donegal, so why would they not let loose deer in Clare, they have demonstrated no cognitive thought process already. I never expected folk who break laws to adhere to logic and rules
By the way , Is it Fergal or Feargal?

Feargal

mystique150

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Fergal, unless you are hugging trees no need to take offence
tree huggers released mink in Donegal, so why would they not let loose deer in Clare, they have demonstrated no cognitive thought process already. I never expected folk who break laws to adhere to logic and rules

Are you suggesting that the same dimwits who released the mink in Donegal are the same eejits dragging muntjac from England? Possibly...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/animal-terrorists-blamed-for-release-of-5000-farmed-mink-2357111.html

But there may be alterior motives for muntjac...

Tackleberrywho

mystique150 wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the same dimwits who released the mink in Donegal are the same eejits dragging muntjac from England? Possibly...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/animal-terrorists-blamed-for-release-of-5000-farmed-mink-2357111.html

But there may be alterior motives for muntjac...

I suggest nothing, hunters could not be ar*ed to go to the UK for a few scrawnie deer.
I can only deal in the facts presented. hunters have to abide by rules and regulations to keep their permits.

To stay part of the ALf all one needs to be is a whacko in my opinion

Whackos do not adhere to logic, logic believes in cause and effect.

They do not believe that releasing animals will not effect Ireland

I have met plenty of Sabbs in my time, they all have a weird perception on reality.

Hondata92

If we were to elimenate all non native deer to ireland what would we be left with??. In my opinion to introduce an extra breed of deer to our shores can only be good for the real hunter;)

Tackleberrywho

Hondata92 wrote: »

If we were to elimenate all non native deer to ireland what would we be left with??. In my opinion to introduce an extra breed of deer to our shores can only be good for the real hunter;)

Hontata92, as a Hunter i can not agree with that statement. People give out to me for stating that ANY muntie I see i will shoot, in calf or not, however if the species colonizes it may have untold effects on native species.

Bringing any animal big/small into the country is wrong wrong wrong, we are still cleaning up after Greys, Sika and to a lesser extent fallow.

Hondata92

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Hontata92, as a Hunter i can not agree with that statement. People give out to me for stating that ANY muntie I see i will shoot, in calf or not, however if the species colonizes it may have untold effects on native species.

Bringing any animal big/small into the country is wrong wrong wrong, we are still cleaning up after Greys, Sika and to a lesser extent fallow.

Unfortunately this is where we will have to disagree, can you tell me what the effect would be if the species would colonize??. And is there fact to back your claim.

Tackleberrywho

Hondata92 wrote: »

Unfortunately this is where we will have to disagree, can you tell me what the effect would be if the species would colonize??. And is there fact to back your claim.

Nature is about balance, for 5000 years or so we have messed with the balance, there are the results.

For every action the reaction is equal an opposite.

Don't take my word for it, take the hundreds of experts who study biodiversity.
Zebra mussel, Sika deer almost eliminating pure red deer in wicklow, greys wiping out reds east of the shannon......... the list goes on

Mink in Donegal, unknown what effect they will have.

NOBODY in their right mind will say introducing Chinese deer into an already messed up Irish Eco system will not have drastic effects.

The sad part, when their is visible proof the damage could be irreversible

Birdnuts

Hondata92 wrote: »

Unfortunately this is where we will have to disagree, can you tell me what the effect would be if the species would colonize??. And is there fact to back your claim.

Its hard enough protecting young broadleaves from the deer we have with fancy fencing and the like without introducing ones the size of collies that will present a whole new set of problems:(

Birdnuts

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

God damn tree huggers, they caught them in England and released them in éire so nasty english hunters couldn't shoot them:mad:

You could be on to something there Feargal - the type that release mink in their thousands to devastate our native biota wouldn't think twice about engaging in such sabotage:(


PS: I prefer the term "Saboteur" rather then "Tree Hugger" - the latter suggests they care about trees, which I doubt since they wouldn't have the intelligence to know how valuable our native broadleaves are and the threat the likes of Grey Squirrels and Muntjacs represent to this important natural resource:mad:

Hondata92

To say we have to balance our ecosystem is quiet true, But to say sika nearly eliminated pure red deer in wicklow is not .Reds had to be reintroduced to wicklow in the mid 1800s from England,Scotland and France , So we cant quiet blame sika for that ,There is 40 species of deer world wide in which we three , So i don't think introducing Chinese water deer into Ireland will turn the ecosystem on its head, I think we need to have a deeper look at what effect man has on our ecosystem , Look at what species we have eradicated.

Tackleberrywho

Hondata92 wrote: »

To say we have to balance our ecosystem is quiet true, But to say sika nearly eliminated pure red deer in wicklow is not .Reds had to be reintroduced to wicklow in the mid 1800s from England,Scotland and France , So we cant quiet blame sika for that ,There is 40 species of deer world wide in which we three , So i don't think introducing Chinese water deer into Ireland will turn the ecosystem on its head, I think we need to have a deeper look at what effect man has on our ecosystem , Look at what species we have eradicated.

Hondata92

if i let sheep out on land where there have never been sheep before the land changes, sheep eat different herbs and plants that cattle will not eat.
thus wildlife will differ.
Rabbits do well on pastureland as the grass is always short and sweet.
If a farmer plants maize rabbits will become thin on teh ground. (i have witnessed this)

I have also witnessed in my lifetime deer being released onto land that NEVER had deer, and small trees have suffered as in hard weather thay eat the bark off the trees, i know of an area where some of the oldest natural woodland in Ireland is under pressure for deer eating bark.

Releasing another animal into the system puts more pressure on it.

put a horse on an acre, no problem, but 6 horses on an acre of grass and in a week you have a mudflat.

I have seen the effects of REPS on the drains and rivers in Ireland, more duck, heron, Kingfisher etc, however some maintain as a result they flood more often as they are cleaned less and not cleaned as extensively as they were prior to REPS.

Releasing anything into our small ecosystem can have unknown effects in Ireland.
Anyone who would do that has no concept of the damage they will do.

most hunters these days try to encourage wild life, by shooting magpies they help nesting birds. By shooting foxes they help lots of small wildlife.
By shooting deer they try to keep the population in check!

however "native" deer are expanding as is!

ssl

the last paragraph with a quote from a Colette O'Flynn saying one was reported in Clare and that they couldn't have crossed the Shannon because its a natural barrier is ridicules. Deer are excellent swimmers and run like a horse on the Roads(bridges)!

Tackleberrywho

I have seen cattle swim across the shannon, however they had massive encouragement, a teenie Muntie would see the shannon as like swimming an ocean.

unless they crossed a bridge or were helped, I don't believe they swam.
And it's a long way for an animal to wander in the time frame the are reportedly in the country

Feargal as Luimneach

Hondata92 wrote: »

To say we have to balance our ecosystem is quiet true, But to say sika nearly eliminated pure red deer in wicklow is not .Reds had to be reintroduced to wicklow in the mid 1800s from England,Scotland and France , So we cant quiet blame sika for that ,There is 40 species of deer world wide in which we three , So i don't think introducing Chinese water deer into Ireland will turn the ecosystem on its head, I think we need to have a deeper look at what effect man has on our ecosystem , Look at what species we have eradicated.

How do we know what effect Muntjac deer could have in Ireland? We don't know for sure! Come back in 100 years after they (might) have colonised the Island and we will have a better idea then.

I'm sure when the Grey squirrel were released into Longford in 1911, they didn't think that a couple of gray squirrels would have had such a negative impact on Red squirrels. They definitely didn't know that the greys were carrying a pox virus that although it had little effect on the greys, it was highly dangerous to the Red Squirrel.

Grizzly 45

Feargal as Luimneach wrote: »

How do we know what effect Muntjac deer could have in Ireland? We don't know for sure! Come back in 100 years after they (might) have colonised the Island and we will have a better idea then.

I'm sure when the Grey squirrel were released into Longford in 1911, they didn't think that a couple of gray squirrels would have had such a negative impact on Red squirrels. They definitely didn't know that the greys were carrying a pox virus that although it had little effect on the greys, it was highly dangerous to the Red Squirrel.

Or quite frankly then ..DID THEY CARE???1911 was 99 years ago and the World was a hell of a different place.We were subjects in our own land,God was in his Heaven and Kings and Emperors sat on their thrones around Europe.What Lord and Lady Gore Buckshot brought back to plant,grow or pouplate their estates was nothing we could do about,or can do about now.It was their property and damn anyone who would tell them different!!

As for the Muntie in Clare...I reckon somone put that down for "the craic" on their deer cull returns.:rolleyes:.Makes no sense otherewise.

bibio

Just on the subject of Deer swimming: I have witnessed a large Fallow buck and fallow pricket swimming the entire width of the shannon above upstream of Carrick on Shannon with relative ease.

pedroeibar1

bibio wrote: »

Just on the subject of Deer swimming: I have witnessed a large Fallow buck and fallow pricket swimming the entire width of the shannon above upstream of Carrick on Shannon with relative ease.

And I've seen a sika swimming across a goleen in Kerry.

ArdeeStalker

ssl wrote: »

the last paragraph with a quote from a Colette O'Flynn saying one was reported in Clare and that they couldn't have crossed the Shannon because its a natural barrier is ridicules. Deer are excellent swimmers and run like a horse on the Roads(bridges)!

theres plenty of reds in clare if you know where to look for them, i shot two hinds and a calf last week in north clare and seen lots of fine big stags who'll be getting a visit from me next september

crackcrack30

As per thread...........

Ardee,
Any pics of those shot deer would be appreciated,,

tanx cc30

ArdeeStalker

yep crack, got a few on the phone, kid's lost cable to up-load on to PC, will post as soon as i can

jellybaby21

If they are here in numbers it would be good for a falconer to hunt them with a goldie. Now that would be good.

welsummer

i heard of an estate manager in wicklow that had 6 in a run for several years and the numbers snever seem to increase.dont know if he still has them