Unfair Redundancy? need opinions

dionsiseire

Hey guys

Went to work yesterday morning, was called into a meeting, told i was being made redundant effective immediately and was walked off the premises and access card taken from me.

I was told to return today and discuss the terms of the redundancy under which i would be offered statutory redundancy plus a % of that amount on top.

I was not consulted prior to redundancy or have any idea it was coming, no discussion took place as to salary reduction (not that i had a big salary at all) or moving into a different role etc. It was quick and 15 minutes later i was off the premises.

I went back today and was offered 5 years reckonable service plus the % on top, 4 week notice in liu and remaining holiday days.

Only two or three people were made redundant, i think the company may have hired in recent week in a different area of the company but cannot be 100% sure.

Any thoughts or opinions on whether everything that went on was lawful and any suggestions of things to do now unemployed bar registered with welfare and FAS.

jimoc

Did the company tell you the reason for the redundancy?
I'm not an expert by a long chalk, but there needs to be some valid reason for redundancy, they can't just make you redundant and then hire someone cheaper into the same position.

3DataModem

You are entitled to be told reason for redundancy, but that's about it.

They cannot hire a replacement for a period (maybe 6 months?) but that's easy to get around.

You are not entitled to alternative work or reduced salary.

However they have offered in excess of statutory minimum, so I would just take it and run. Ensure you get your paperwork in order, and ensure you get your money and forms on last day or ASAP. And ensure you go and sign om on your first day off work, and send in form to revenue to get tax back, and apply for accommodation assistance if required, etc.

Best of luck finding a new job.

dionsiseire

Ok so i'm best signing and forgetting about it.

Welfare wont organise a meeting till closer to my termination date, i received one blank RP50 today from them, i rang them and told them i wasn't signing a form that they had not filled out. can't claim tax back for the year until 4 weeks after termination date, so thats not till december. Will definitely remember to do that then

Reason for redundancy was given it just feels like with such a small amount going that it didn't feel like right. I just wanted to make sure i wasn't being railroaded unfairly.

alex73

Sounds very strange, In Ireland you tend not to get fired in such a mannor (usually only when the company goes bust) Were you in a union?

What type of company do you work for?

My company made peope reduntant but gave them a years notice and 10 weeks pay of year of service.

Spunk84

Get a Solicitor to look at it, also this is screaming Unfair Dismissal and harrasment and discrimation!!!! The fact that you were frogged march out of the building like a prisoner is that alone. Total BULL:eek:HITE!!!!!

Call NERA or contact your union. I would go for an Industrial solicitor .if you had the money to do it. Take no bull of them and protect yourself. WTF :eek:

eejoynt

see attached link - try the other one on dismissal

http://www.unionconnect.ie/rights/9/

you can take them to the employment appeals tribual for unfiar selection for redundancy - which would be treated as unfair dismissal - the forms are downloadable from the EAT website

bongi69

This sounds all too familiar.

This time last year, was called to a meeting at 4pm on a friday afternoon. Was told that was it, I was being made redundant, and as I was there less than 2 years no redundancy applied. I was told that it was due to orders from top management that every department had to make redunancies, even though our department desperately needed more staff. They had my stuff in a box (i had been in another area of the building prior to the meeting), and was ushered to the door. Luckily I was too shocked to speak, or else there would probably have been blows.

Only a few weeks previous I had the department manager in hot water with HR, over an issue with holidays. I had asked for hoildays for September back in february, and after several emails enquiring about them, I was told 2 weeks before I was meant to go that they were denied, as someone else (a supervisor) had subequently boooked the same 2 weeks, 4 months after my original request. I raised the issue with HR, and after more meetings, the manager had to do a complete u turn and grant my holidays.

While I'd like to think that they did have to cut down the numbers, I still had a nagging feeling that I wasn't randomly selected, or selected on my perfomance (which at all reviews was exemplary)

I was out of work for 10 months, and I took it as a chance to get some education. I've been on 2 FAS courses, and now I've fallen back on my retail experience from a few years ago. I'm an assistant manager in an electronics shop, getting paid less than my last job, but much happier in the job.

OP, the way I looked at it at the time, would I really have wanted to continue working for a company that treats employees like that?? Take the money and run, and something will eventually turn up. Do a course or something in the mean time to keep yourself busy, and it looks good on the CV that you were doing something.

Edit: I was offered free legal representaion at the time (lawyer in the family) to pursue unfair redundancy, but decided against it. How would any future employer view being told when ringing for a reference that I was suing them?

Eoin

Spunk84 wrote: »

Get a Solicitor to look at it, also this is screaming Unfair Dismissal and harrasment and discrimation!!!! The fact that you were frogged march out of the building like a prisoner is that alone. Total BULL:eek:HITE!!!!!

Call NERA or contact your union. I would go for an Industrial solicitor .if you had the money to do it. Take no bull of them and protect yourself. WTF :eek:

I think you're being slightly over the top here. It's not that unusual to be escorted off the premises.

I'm also not entirely sure what you're basing this on, given that there aren't that many details so far: "Unfair Dismissal and harrasment and discrimation!!!!"

If I have read it correctly, the OP said that there might have been recruitment in another area of the business. Again, this really isn't that unusual. Even if a company is in trouble financially, they might still need to fill roles.

wmpdd3

I agree being marched off the premises is the worst part of losing you job, but in retrospect I can see why companies do it.

If I had 15 mins in alone in the company that went bust I could have erased 5 very crucial files, stolen a few sales contacts and cleared out the stationary cupboard!

I would ask for written information and the redundancy selection process. You are entitled to this information.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/redundancy/redundancy



"n selecting a particular employee for redundancy, an employer should apply selection criteria that are reasonable and are applied in a fair manner. You are entitled to bring a claim for unfair dismissal if you consider that you were unfairly selected for redundancy or consider that a genuine redundancy situation did not exist. Examples of these situations might include where the custom and practice in your workplace has been last in, first out and your selection did not follow this procedure. Another example may be where your contract of employment sets out criteria for selection which were not subsequently followed.. "

dionsiseire

Thanks everyone for the posts, I reckon i'll probably leave it be with the solicitor though I'm not entirely happy that such a small number of redundancies with such a large employee base but i guess they law is on their side in this really as it really comes down to how they explain themselves, and if done right they will be in the right, it's my only IT reference too so do I really want to go sueing and dropping that.

I am more aggravated at the fact i feel my role became unnecessary due to the lack of attendance of the manager of my area (in recent times was almost never in the office) which led to me being a lot less productive, but again that's not going to make a massive difference in the dismissals case.

I'll just sign the related forms and be done with it, It's not worth the hassle anymore and I'm sure something will come up in the mean time.

I appreciate all the comments and thoughts on it, I just wanted to run it through the wringer to ensure there wasn't something i was missing or more i should have been doing

fat__tony

Sorry to hear about your redundancy OP.

Unfortunately most employers in Ireland today are complete bastards and will use any excuse necessary to protect their profits.

The Minstrel

I'm being made redundant but they have asked me to keep it quiet. I believe 2 other people in the company (in different positions) are being made redundant also. My offer is purely statutory, but I strongly suspect that the others are receiving more. I say offer but it's not really an offer, as I don't seem to have a choice. Is there anything I can do to influence a top up on the paltry statutory sum?

jimmycrackcorm

The Minstrel wrote: »

I'm being made redundant but they have asked me to keep it quiet. I believe 2 other people in the company (in different positions) are being made redundant also. My offer is purely statutory, but I strongly suspect that the others are receiving more. I say offer but it's not really an offer, as I don't seem to have a choice. Is there anything I can do to influence a top up on the paltry statutory sum?

No. There is no chance you can either blackmail them or convince them to offer you more, simply because you have only been offered statutory. You can always ask as you have nothing to lose but I don't fancy your choices. You don't owe them any favours in keeping quiet so I wouldn't in your position.

3DataModem

The Minstrel wrote: »

I'm being made redundant but they have asked me to keep it quiet.

Say: "I'll keep it quiet for 2 extra weeks pay."

Get it in writing.