Bang Bang Bang

time lord

Just for some of the younger readers I wish to inform them about doing tactics with the P.D.F. during the last recession.

We were doing infantry, platoon in attack etc in Wicklow. We were very close and even beside many civies and we had to shout "bang bang" when simiulating firing as no blank ammunition was available. Woebetide any soldier that didn't shout bang bang. We used laugh and say at least I'm not on the mag.
Seriously though I hope things are not that bad again. It was funny for a minute and to look back at but demeening and demoralising too.
I still see all 50+ of us running through the river beside people laying out sunbathing and shouting bang bang bang bang bang, oops must of been on the mag there:eek:

Evd-Burner

lol even in the reserves we got pyro this year ... Good god id hate to be on the mag for sumtin like that, ye wudnt able to talk for a week...

siblers

Made me lol. Sounds kinda fun though.

oglaigh

In fairness if you go onto military forums, loads of armies around the world do similar stuff when there is a shortage of blanks - have recently seen US and British posters on other sites saying they have been shouting "bang bang" during exercises due to ammo shortage.

tac foley

oglaigh wrote: »

In fairness if you go onto military forums, loads of armies around the world do similar stuff when there is a shortage of blanks - have recently seen US and British posters on other sites saying they have been shouting "bang bang" during exercises due to ammo shortage.

That's because we are using so much of the real thing in other places.

tac

iceage

nothing unusual about bang bang shouting due to shortage of blanks back in the 80's.

time lord

I guess thats why we didnt throw pretend grenades. Didn't want us hoarse I guess.

I shouldnt of hi-lighted the bang bang bang. Yeah looking back half the platoon were lucky really. Yeah they got socks issued and the other half got mess tins. Which half were the luckiest I still dont know. The recession bit everywhere.

Delancey

I would have thought shouting bang-bang because the job cannot/will not cough for blanks to be a thoroughly embarrassing and demoralising experience ?
I knew people in the FCA back then - how they put up with that foolishness is beyond me.........

Donny5

delancey42 wrote: »

I would have thought shouting bang-bang because the job cannot/will not cough for blanks to be a thoroughly embarrassing and demoralising experience ?
I knew people in the FCA back then - how they put up with that foolishness is beyond me.........

I always had troops shouting FIRING! when teaching SIAs. There's no point rocking out blanks until the basic drills are down. They just confuse the matter at the early stages. They're great for full speeds drill with trained troops, and they really get you thinking about how fast those rounds disappear, but they're not always necessary nor even a help.

Local-womanizer

Donny5 wrote: »

I always had troops shouting FIRING! when teaching SIAs. There's no point rocking out blanks until the basic drills are down. They just confuse the matter at the early stages. They're great for full speeds drill with trained troops, and they really get you thinking about how fast those rounds disappear, but they're not always necessary nor even a help.

We did the same last year. Trying to teach new-comers tactics while they are firing blanks and as a result the need for them to wear Hearing protection is silly. Its grand when they are up to speed with the basics.

I dont think we have ever been on tactics when we didnt have blanks. Saying that its not like we are usually over loaded with ammo,but that makes you appreciated a bit more.

Also,its quite interesting that some people think the weapons fire lasers! pew pew!

c-90

no matter how much money the army has there will always be a need to shout firing, as said above blanks have nothing to contribute until the drill is learned.

as for having pyro ive been on exercises with less than 16 rounds and up to as much as 8 full mags so i dont think recession has effcted it much. before i joined lads were only issued the uniform and everything else was givin to them as they needed it now were issued the full cemo. so i dont think things are gona be bad anytime soon, well i hope not.:)

OS119

my experience is that blanks, TF's and BATSIM are the first things run out during the financial year - easier to justify live rounds in a finite budget than blank. running about shouting 'bang' is part of every soldiers life - prizes are sometimes awarded for the most interesting 'star trek' type noise...

a number of BA units use blank ammunition during weapon handling tests and learning (re-learning!) all the load/unload/make-safe drills - you've got the realism that it'll go bang if you screw it up, but the safety (ish) of getting your confidence up without killing anyone if goes it wrong.

obviously you can only do it on a range/training area, but lots of soldiers - TA and Regular - won't handle a weapon and ammunition from one month to the next, so spending 20 minutes at the start of an ex doing loads and unloads without a miscreant 'bang' lets everyone be confident about their own, and everyone elses, weapon skills.

Delancey

What's the typical sanction or punishment for a ' negligent discharge ' ?

iceage

A split second to prepare yourself for the inevitable bollocking... I remember the training vid we were show in the ACF as a kid way back called "It could be you" enough to put the wind up you. It did the trick, never had an ND throughout my time.

Saw a docu once of young Officer Cadets going through Sandhurst, a female ND'd on an exercise with a blank and was up on a charge and threatened with back classing and a full rerun of SAA.

xflyer

I remember an exercise with the FCA back in the eighties down in Kilworth. We were supported by one of those old armoured cars they had back then. A Leyland or a Landsverk I think. They had no blanks for their .303 Browning machine gun. So they banged a stick of the side of the armour.

But we had blanks. I remember one funny incident, a lad with a Gustav came across one of the enemy. He shouted back to the Sergeant that he found one. 'Well shoot him you fool' was the reply.

J K

iceage - you just accidentally discharged a double post

Manic Moran

When I joined the US Army, I was under the impression that my days of shouting 'Bang' (and then arguing over who killed whom where) were over.

In the fields of South Dakota for OCS, due to the fire hazard, no blanks were allowed. So back to yelling 'bang' and throwing sticks at each other to represent grenades...

NTM

time lord

delancey42 wrote: »

What's the typical sanction or punishment for a ' negligent discharge ' ?

I can't help you for a typical one but here is what I encountered.

Private x got out of his bivvi.It was dawn and I was about 12 yards away and saw him discharge his weapon into his own hand. It was a blank round and it took the skin off one of his knuckles.
leaving out the first aid part and rest of the immediate events he ended up on the mat with the c.o. back in Bks after the exercise some days later. I was up on orders too so I remember that he got a few day confinement but was home for the weekend. They implied before the carpeting that if he hadn't of hurt himself it would of been dealt with out on the ground.

The wound looked nastier after a few hours than it had done fresh. C.T.D. east was where he was charged...

Delancey

Manic Moran wrote: »

When I joined the US Army, I was under the impression that my days of shouting 'Bang' (and then arguing over who killed whom where) were over.

In the fields of South Dakota for OCS, due to the fire hazard, no blanks were allowed. So back to yelling 'bang' and throwing sticks at each other to represent grenades...

NTM

Manic , was there not a huge scrub fire last week in Utah caused by U.S. Army live firing ?

I knew someone who was ex-BA , he saw a comrade killed on Operation Banner by a negligent disharge - they were getting in/out of a Humber 'Pig' and someones SLR discharged - the victim was struck in the head and died immediately.

iceage

J K wrote: »

iceage - you just accidentally discharged a double post

Jankers for me then!

OS119

delancey42 wrote: »

What's the typical sanction or punishment for a ' negligent discharge ' ?

i've seen everything from extra duties to reduction in rank, massive fines (over £1k), RTU, sent home from tour, and of course the career-ending 'nobody trusts you'...

the 'training with blanks' example i posted up earlier is a bit different - an ND would result in a screaming, remedial training and punishment duties. a 'live' ND, whether with Live or Blank, would invariably take the offender down the official path

tac foley

OS119 wrote: »

i've seen everything from extra duties to reduction in rank, massive fines (over £1k), RTU, sent home from tour, and of course the career-ending 'nobody trusts you'...

the 'training with blanks' example i posted up earlier is a bit different - an ND would result in a screaming, remedial training and punishment duties. a 'live' ND, whether with Live or Blank, would invariably take the offender down the official path

What if you just shouted 'bang' at an inappropriate time?

tac

OS119

tac foley wrote: »

What if you just shouted 'bang' at an inappropriate time?

tac

well then its just funny.

oh how the tears ran down my face when i was awakened 4hrs after the end of a 2 week exercise by a very sarky young OP Ack who said 'sir, sir, BANG!'.

cnut.

Jim from Cork

Heard lots of blanks being fired on Haulboline last week.... some exercise going on, so there still is a few bob around or there was a few blanks in stock.:)

deise go deo

tac foley wrote: »

That's because we are using so much of the real thing in other places.

tac

Jesus, theyr useing blanks in Iraq? No wonder theyr having such a hard time of it.:pac:

Stovepipe

Hi all,
In 14 years, FCA and Air Corps, the most blanks I ever recieved was 20 rounds for an FN, in the Don and two smoke flares. Some people recieved thunderflashes, but they were few and far between.The GPMG used to get 40 blanks.In the FCA and PDF, there were wax blanks for the Gustav submachine gun, which had a bell shaped BFA, which cut up the wax projectiles as they fired.There were never blanks for the older FCA weapons, or, at least, I never saw them.We even used bored-out drill rounds for the 81mm mortar, which had a piece of string tied to them so that when the no2 dropped it down the tube, he could get it out without having to strip off the barrel.
When we first got FN blanks, in the Don, they repeatedly warned us, on pain of immediate court-martial, never to fire the FN without a BFA attached.The sergeant demonstrated how dangerous blanks were/are by undoing his BFA and putting the barrel against a used plastic milk carton.He fired and the carton was completely shredded! we got the point at once.
In all my time, there were rarely NDs as they were constantly vigilant against them.
regards
Stovepipe

trellheim

People appreciate their pyro when they are made carry 300 5.56 & 500 7.62 for 72 hours.

fruitbat66

I remember in the 80s In kilbride when we formed up for UNIFIL, We were practising CPs and stop and searching of Cars and Traffic control


Guess who was simulating the cars??


Yes Nine Ptes walking/marching in formations



Now that was cut backs

Local-womanizer

fruitbat66 wrote: »

I remember in the 80s In kilbride when we formed up for UNIFIL, We were practising CPs and stop and searching of Cars and Traffic control


Guess who was simulating the cars??


Yes Nine Ptes walking/marching in formations



Now that was cut backs

Sure it wasnt a bus they were simulating or was the car overloaded? :pac:

Mahatma coat

delancey42 wrote: »

I would have thought shouting bang-bang because the job cannot/will not cough for blanks to be a thoroughly embarrassing and demoralising experience ?
I knew people in the FCA back then - how they put up with that foolishness is beyond me.........

VERRRRRY Cheap Beer when in Camp :D:D;)