The Music Show / RDS this week-end

ZV Yoda

Some real industry heavyweights attending... speakers include Bob Geldof, Louis Walsh, Steve Lillywhite, Paul Brady, Brian Kennedy, Eamon Ryan (Minister for Communcations), Jerry Fish... there's even guitar songwrting seminars with Mundy & Gemma Hayes

http://wordpress.hotpress.com/themusicshow/category/seminars/

Tics are less than €20 for both days - which seems like great value considering the attendees.

Just thought I'd pass it on....

i57dwun4yb1pt8

i decided on meh when i saw Eamon Ryan mentioned

ZV Yoda

DaDumTish wrote: »

i decided on meh when i saw Eamon Ryan mentioned

True... but the other side is that (love 'em or hate 'em), people like Bob Geldof, Louis Walsh & Steve Lillywhite all have huge insights into the biz, so for that alone it'd be worth a punt.

Maybe Louis can get me onto X Factor...:pac:

dasdog

Louis Walsh & Eamon (NAMA is the only show in town or so Lenny told me) Ryan...ugh!! Paul Brady/Geldof on the other hand I would have plenty of time for.

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/music/the-boys-toys-are-all-back-in-town-2357101.html

Now, 25 years after the death of the Thin Lizzy singer, his mother, Philomena Lynott, will officially launch an exhibition of his memorabilia as part of the Hot Press Music Show in the RDS this weekend.
Along with four guitars owned by Lynott -- and on which he wrote Thin Lizzy hits including 'The Boys Are Back In Town' and 'Dancing In The Moonlight' -- there will also be tour jackets worn by the singer, flight cases used by Thin Lizzy, lyric books and Lynott's shares in Manchester United Football Club on display this Saturday and Sunday.
...
Now 80, Philomena said she was seeking a permanent home for her son's collection, which up until now has been kept in her north Dublin home.

I hope that collection doesn't leave the country...it would be nice if it made it to a museum.

studiorat

ZV Yoda wrote: »

True... but the other side is that (love 'em or hate 'em), people like Bob Geldof, Louis Walsh & Steve Lillywhite all have huge insights into the biz, so for that alone it'd be worth a punt.

What biz?

ZV Yoda

studiorat wrote: »

What biz?

... the biz of writing, recording, producing, promoting & selling absolute bucketloads of records... Between Geldof, Walsh & Lillywhite, they've certainly done that - thanks to their expertise in their respective areas of the music biz

Bluebirdstudios

Hi Lads,
I'll be exhibiting at the Music Show. Call around for a chat , get a chance to put some faces to these posts.
-Dec

Dravokivich

Plan on heading into this on the Saturday myself.

Had the ticket already sorted for this then found out they are doing stuff based on live promotions on the Sunday ><".

Dam website is a nightmare to look over and see what's going on and when with it :pac:.

drawnacrol

Dravokivich wrote: »

Dam website is a nightmare to look over and see what's going on and when with it :pac:.

Same, I can't make head or tails of it. A list of all the exhibits and stands would be brilliant

empirix

are they selling gear at this and i don't mean heroin, i do mean synths analogue synths

drawnacrol

empirix wrote: »

are they selling gear at this and i don't mean heroin, i do mean synths analogue synths

Their bound to be selling some equipment at the show, have you heard about the Music Maker sale tomorow, you might be able to get a good synth cheap at that

Dravokivich

received an e-mail from X-Music with the following details, more clearly laid out.

IRELAND’S BIGGEST EVER EXHIBITION OF MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, EQUIPMENT & TECHNOLOGY

MASTERCLASSES, PUBLIC INTERVIEWS & WORKSHOPS with:

BOB GELDOF * NEWTON FAULKNER * MUNDY * GEMMA HAYES * SASHA * ALEX SMOKE * ELLEN ALIEN + loads more!

The historic PHILIP LYNOTT EXHIBITION – to be officially launched by Philomena Lynott on Saturday

LIVE STAGE: SATURDAY, OCT 2

5:30pm REPUBLIC OF LOOSE
4:30pm MICK FLANNERY
4:00pm MAUD IN CAHOOTS
3:30pm THE CAST OF CHEERS
2:30pm JOE ECHO
2:00pm CODES
1:30pm THE BRILLIANT THINGS
1:00pm JODY HAS A HITLIST
plus more!

12:30pm SOUNDS OF SYSTEM BREAKDOWN
12:00pm INTINN

LIVE STAGE: SUNDAY, OCT 3

5:30pm DAMIEN DEMPSEY
4:45pm CATHY DAVEY
4:00pm JERRY FISH & THE MUDBUG CLUB
3:15pm SHARON CORR
2.15pm THE CORONAS
1:30pm FIGHT LIKE APES
1:00pm THE HIGH KINGS
12:30pm O EMPEROR

ACCESS ALL AREAS TICKETS:
http://www.ticketmaster.ie/promo/jqnhh5?brand=ie_musicshow

PANEL DISCUSSIONS & DEBATES - SATURDAY, OCTOBER 2 in association with IMIR

10.20am SO YOU WANT TO WRITE ABOUT MUSIC? (Student Panel)

SHILPA GANATRA (Irish Daily Star), EAMON SWEENEY (The Irish Independent), JOANNE HEGARTY (The Irish Mail On Sunday), MARTIN BURNS (The Irish News of the World), PETER MURPHY (Hot Press)

11am MUSIC: THE OPPORTUNITIES IN EDUCATION (Student Panel)

LUÁN PARLE (Musician), DR. WILLIAM HALPIN (Acting Head, Conservatory of Music & Drama, DIT), JOAN CONDRON (Programme Leader, Ballyfermot College of Further Education), GERARD FLANAGAN (Head of Music, Kylemore College)

12pm THE CRISIS IN MUSIC: IS THERE A WAY OUT OF THE MESS THE RECORD BUSINESS IS IN?

JOHN REID (CEO, Warner Music Europe & VC, Warner Music International), RICHARD O’DONOVAN (A&R Consultant), STEPHEN KING (MD, Believe Digital UK), JERRY FISH

1pm COMMUNICATIONS & MUSIC: HOW CAN WE ENSURE THAT THE PIPER IS PAID - AND OTHER IMPORTANT MATTERS OF PUBLIC POLICY

MINISTER EAMON RYAN (Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources), MARC MAROT (CEO, SEG International), LOUIS WALSH (X-Factor, Westlife, Jedward), PAUL BRADY, VICTOR FINN (CEO, IMRO)

2.30pm WE DON'T NEED NO EDUCATION. WRONG!

OSSIE KILKENNY (Financial Advisor & Industry Expert), KEVIN NIXON (Brighton Bristol Institute of Modern Music), PADDY DUNNING (Sound Training Centre & Temple Lane Studios), PETE HOLIDAI (Ballyfermot College of Further Education)

3.30pm IT'S ALL DOWN TO THE SONG - SOME THINGS IN ROCK 'N ROLL NEVER CHANGE

KIM FRANKIEWICZ (VP, International at Universal Music Publishing), ANDY CAIRNS (Therapy?), ASHLEIGH FLYNN (Musician & songwriter), BRIAN KENNEDY

4.30pm TECHNOLOGY IN THE CREATIVE INDUSTRIES: IT KILLS US. IT SETS US FREE
ANDY GILL (Producer/Gang Of Four), MAURICE LINNANE (Writer/Director), NICK KELLY (Musician & film-maker), LIAM BATES (Composer)



PANEL DISCUSSIONS & DEBATES - SUNDAY, OCTOBER 3

12.30pm IT'S A HIT! HOW BROADCASTERS USE & ABUSE MUSIC (AND SOMETIMES LOVE IT TOO)

MARK COOPER (Creative Head, Music Entertainment BBC), MALCOLM GERRIE (CEO, Whizz Kid Entertainment), JOHN KELLY (Broadcaster), JOHN MCMAHON (Head of RTÉ 2fm), JOHN ROBB (Broadcaster/Musician)

2pm MAKING MILLIONS OR LOSING YOUR SHIRT - THE PUBLICITY MACHINE & THE PERILS OF RUNNING LIVE MUSIC & OTHER EVENTS

JUSTIN GREEN (MCD, Publicity & Marketing Director), OLLIE JENNINGS (Manager, The Saw Doctors), JOHN SPILLANE, FRANK MURRAY (Manger, The Mighty Stef - formerly Thin Lizzy & The Pogues)

3pm KILLING BONO: U2 CAN HAVE A FILM MADE ABOUT YOU

JOE ECHO (Musician), NEIL MCCORMICK (Journalist/Author), NICK HAMM (Director, Killing Bono)

4pm ARE PRODUCERS THE REAL STARS? JUST WHAT DOES GO ON IN THE STUDIO?

STEVE LILLYWHITE (Producer, U2, Peter Gabriel), MICK GLOSSOP (Producer, Van Morrison, Frank Zappa, The Waterboys), JULIE FEENEY



MASTERCLASSES, WORKSHOPS & PUBLIC INTERVIEWS - SATURDAY, OCTOBER 2

12:30pm
DJ & PRODUCTION MASTERCLASS with SASHA, LLEN ALLIEN, COLM K, ALEX SMOKE & DJ TU-KI

2pm
DRUM MASTERCLASS with CONOR GUILFOYLE

3pm
GUITAR MASTERCLASS with NEWTON FAULKNER

4:30pm
RECORDING WORKSHOP

MASTERCLASSES, WORKSHOPS & PUBLIC INTERVIEWS - SUNDAY, OCTOBER 3

1pm
BODHRAN & VOCAL MASTERCLASS with CATHY JORDAN & LIAM Ó MAONALAÍ

2pm
PUBLIC INTERVIEW with BOB GELDOF

3.45pm
DRUM MASTERCLASS with CARLOS HERCULES

5pm
SONGWRITING WORKSHOP with GUITARS - MUNDY & GEMMA HAYES

PLUS!
IRELAND’S BIGGEST EVER EXHIBITION OF MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS, EQUIPMENT & TECHNOLOGY

krd

DaDumTish wrote: »

i decided on meh when i saw Eamon Ryan mentioned

No he rocks.

Wasn't he in Horselips?

i57dwun4yb1pt8

no, you mean eamonn carr , the drummer

i mean eamonn ryan , the green party f.cukwit

madtheory

The minister did not make a good impression today. However, Sharon Corr, Louis Walsh (seriously!) and that songwriter chap, made it all very clear to him.

I think the radio stations need to stop making assumptions about their demographic, and start actually fulfilling their quota of Irish music. It's a primary reason for the smallness of the irish music biz.

krd

madtheory wrote: »

The minister did not make a good impression today. However, Sharon Corr, Louis Walsh (seriously!) and that songwriter chap, made it all very clear to him.

I think the radio stations need to stop making assumptions about their demographic, and start actually fulfilling their quota of Irish music. It's a primary reason for the smallness of the irish music biz.

The last time there was an enforced quota on Irish music on the radio this

This,,, My friend... This is what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y2uIhbzxO4

It was played non-stop for months on end. The experiment was ended.

In the 80s in Ireland Instead of millions of Irish Indie clones there were a thousand Brendan Shines.

Do you want this to happen again?

A few questions:

1. Do you listen to the radio?

Lots of people don't listen to the radio. Radio stations only play the kind of music people who listen to the radio want to hear.

They do not play music for people who do not listen to the radio.

2. From a production point of view.
A. Do you listen to radio - and know what they're playing.
B. Have you studied the music - can you recreate it.


Radio stations play music hairdressers want to hear. It's not that there's anything wrong with hairdressers - and there isn't really anything wrong with the music they listen to - it just happens to be Lady Gaga or whoever - they do not have a stack of Gobetweens CDs in their salons - they don't listen to the Gobetweens - if they did - the Gobetweens would get played on the radio and if the hairdresser had her own CDS - The radio station would be playing music for hairdressers who don't have a CD collection.

If you want to get played on the radio. Listen to it - study the music they're playing. Rip it off and produce something that sounds just like it. And they will probably play it.

Other countries that do not have English as their first language have a very healthy trade in producing native language rip offs of Lady Gaga.

ebaysellerrob

found it to be a good sunday outing:)

madtheory

krd: It seems to me that there is plenty of good Irish made music that is not played. Stations do not have genuine data on what their listeners want to hear because they're not prepared to spend the money on surveys. IMO your statement about hairdressers is exactly the kind of mistaken assumption that most PDs make.

France and Canada have thriving indigenous music industries, they enforce the quota. As you say, it's their own stuff. It works!

Yes, I do listen to the radio, and I switch off from 10 til 7 pm because I've had enough of the so called top 40. To me that's just as irritating as Brendan Shine etc. There are successful local stations playing that stuff because they know that's what their listeners want. That makes sense, they would have a better idea of what the listenership wants, because it is a smaller one. The bigger stations won't spend the money on surveying their much larger listenership, IMO.

Louis Walsh made the point that he can't understand why the likes of Christy Moore, Paul Brady and Mick Flannery have trouble getting airplay. That's just three examples, there are hundreds more. He is very eager to sell in the Irish market, he says he's hampered by lack of airplay. Like him or loathe him, he's a shrewd business man and if he wants to sell in Ireland then it's a viable market regardless of the small population.

The problem is, PDs do not take Irish music seriously, and the government is not helping the situation at all.

Rockshamrover

The French did this and I don't think it helped the quality of their music.

madtheory

Quality is subjective. A thriving industry is real.

fitz

madtheory wrote: »

The problem is, PDs do not take Irish music seriously, and the government is not helping the situation at all.

I think the issue is more so with the role of a PD.
You're relying on one person to select a vast amount of music.
How can they possibly listen to everything?
They'll include whatever the majors are pushing, cause that might get them access to the artists for a promo or jingle or whatever. That stuff is a no-brainer for them.
But they're still left with a mountain of stuff landing on their desk that doesn't come from record companies.

This results in PR companies being the gatekeepers to Irish radio for independent artists. Material sent in by certain PR companies will go to the top of the pile, as the PD uses the PR company as a "sh*t-filter." The bigger PR companies know this, and exploit their position with ridiculous prices.

So, the bulk of listening and selection gets shunted from the PD to someone outside the radio station. Upping the quota isn't going to change this. I suspect that an increased quota would just result in more songs by The Coronas/The Script/U2/Snowpatrol being played, as opposed to newer acts being used to satisfy the additional airtime requirements.

I do think that the use of "Irish Artist" shows is a cynical way of getting round the quota though, and would like to see things changed so that you can't make up the quota by playing 3 hours of Irish music from 9pm on a Monday evening. It makes a mockery of even having a quota.

But I think just increasing the quota isn't going to work.
Tricky one to know how to solve...
As for radio being "music for hairdressers," I disagree with krd. People mostly like what they're told they should like. I think if you've got a decent song that's catchy and played regularly, with the DJ banging on about how great it is, most radio listeners will just accept that it is great, and add it to their "like that" list, regardless of whether it's Irish or not. It doesn't need to be club music, it just needs to given the seal of approval by someone the radio listeners think of as an authority.

PaulBrewer

Bluebirdstudios wrote: »

Hi Lads,
I'll be exhibiting at the Music Show. Call around for a chat , get a chance to put some faces to these posts.
-Dec

How did you get on Declan ?

Was it worth the expense ?

We did it a couple of times in the early days , but since it got Hot Pressed it looked like it was a kids show - which scared off everyone else !

PaulBrewer

krd wrote: »

The last time there was an enforced quota on Irish music on the radio this

This,,, My friend... This is what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y2uIhbzxO4

It was played non-stop for months on end. The experiment was ended.

In the 80s in Ireland Instead of millions of Irish Indie clones there were a thousand Brendan Shines.

Do you want this to happen again?

A few questions:

1. Do you listen to the radio?

Lots of people don't listen to the radio. Radio stations only play the kind of music people who listen to the radio want to hear.

They do not play music for people who do not listen to the radio.

2. From a production point of view.
A. Do you listen to radio - and know what they're playing.
B. Have you studied the music - can you recreate it.


Radio stations play music hairdressers want to hear. It's not that there's anything wrong with hairdressers - and there isn't really anything wrong with the music they listen to - it just happens to be Lady Gaga or whoever - they do not have a stack of Gobetweens CDs in their salons - they don't listen to the Gobetweens - if they did - the Gobetweens would get played on the radio and if the hairdresser had her own CDS - The radio station would be playing music for hairdressers who don't have a CD collection.

If you want to get played on the radio. Listen to it - study the music they're playing. Rip it off and produce something that sounds just like it. And they will probably play it.

Other countries that do not have English as their first language have a very healthy trade in producing native language rip offs of Lady Gaga.

I think you make good points KRD - my gut feeling is that 'quotas' and the like aren't a solution.

Getting airplay because you have a record out is against the law of the jungle which the music biz is..... and that law will prevail.

It also might have the affect of focusing the business inwards, a la Francais, and making music to 'get on the radio- as it's our right' and avoiding the reality of the fact that most stuff isn't up to scratch.

That - to me, is the core problem.

I see it again and again most recently with a local band who had their album slaughtered in a review in a national paper .... a review that made the very same points as I did to them in person, in time to do something about it - but which hurt all the more as it's now in the public domain.

It's clear that anyone who creates music to an 'International' standard (what ever that might be) will get interest.

A by product of making it easy to release music means that people do - perhaps a year or 2 or 3 before they're actually ready too ?

One might offer Villagers, Jape and The Script as three examples.

Whilst the squipt obviously had money involved anyone could do what Villagers/Jape did if they had the music....

Being force fed perhaps isn't the best route - however I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

Bluebirdstudios

PaulBrewer wrote: »

How did you get on Declan ?

Was it worth the expense ?

We did it a couple of times in the early days , but since it got Hot Pressed it looked like it was a kids show - which scared off everyone else !

Hi Paul,
To be honest I'm not sure how it went! I was busy talking to a lot of people - maybe only 5% or so will turn into something concrete?

Yes I was struck about the amount of teenagers there , they made up a large percentage of the crowd. That said I did get to speak to some good potentials clients.

The expense part I'll only be able to gauge that in the next few months. Have to say I did find the Hop Presss staff very helpful from the outset and thought they ran the show very smoothly.
The Exihbitors seem to be well down from previous years !
Overall I was happy to be there I think Bluebird Studios needed that extra push on exposure.
Lets hope there's some reward.
-Dec.

ZV Yoda

I was there on Saturday…I found it very interesting. All the teenagers were downstairs (which for the most part looked like a music store). The older crowd (I include myself here) were upstairs at the seminars.

Louis Walsh just kept plugging his new girl band & complaining that Irish radio stations don’t play Irish music.

I’m not convinced that radio is as powerful today as it one was… do teenagers really listen to radio anymore?... radio today has to compete against reality TV (X-Factor etc), iPods, global internet radio, YouTube, Facebook, and God knows how many other digital / online sources. I’d love to see survey of how many teens actually listen to daytime radio.

I used to think that if radio stations gave new bands a chance, then all would be well... but the bottom line is this... Irish national radio stations (state run & commercial) need to play music that appeal to the masses. Otherwise, the masses wouldn’t listen. It’s a simple fact. Most people like vanilla, so that’s the safe option. Enforcing a 30% quota?... dunno, we could end up with Jedward & Brendan Shine all day. Eurghhh! Also, how do you define “Irish” music?... apparently some of Kylie’s latest album was recorded in Windmill Lane, so that gets included in the 30% “Irish” quota.

Independent / local radio stations / speciality stations can & do play newer bands. I listened to a lot of radio in the 80s… and while there was an abundance of great local Irish rock music, it wasn’t exactly played to death on national radio back then either. Dave Fanning championed Irish music – but he had a night-time slot… every college kid in the country tuned in to listen to him. That’s not so different from today – if you listen to off-peak radio, you will still hear the local acts.

The problem is that the market is now truly global. I can record a song today in my garage, mix it, master it & have it on iTunes tonight. Even if it is shyte, it’ll be out there competing with the big boys. It just won’t get anywhere, because it isn’t getting marketed. These days, the majors market via reality TV & MTV etc. Since that costs big bucks, they won’t invest in an act that they don’t think will yield the profits. That takes us back the vanilla/hairdresser music argument gain.

I listened to the Andy Cairns (from Therapy) on Sat… he was on the panel talking about whether or not the song was still the most important thing. He said their first album (Troublegum – great album) was a song based album. It was their biggest seller & was released on a major label. The major wanted them to follow up with more of the same, but the lads decided they wanted to produce a record they felt was more sonically interesting to them (as opposed to the more commercial song based 1st album). The band didn’t want to be told what to do, so they did their own thing. The record company promptly dropped them & Therapy never reached the same levels of success they had in the 90s. Andy didn’t appear to have any regrets, so good on ‘em for sticking to their guns. They appear to be OK sacrificing commercial success in return for their artistic freedom. Not everybody chooses to do that…

Android 666

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I listened to the Andy Cairns (from Therapy) on Sat… he was on the panel talking about whether or not the song was still the most important thing. He said their first album (Troublegum – great album) was a song based album. It was their biggest seller & was released on a major label. The major wanted them to follow up with more of the same, but the lads decided they wanted to produce a record they felt was more sonically interesting to them (as opposed to the more commercial song based 1st album). The band didn’t want to be told what to do, so they did their own thing. The record company promptly dropped them & Therapy never reached the same levels of success they had in the 90s. Andy didn’t appear to have any regrets, so good on ‘em for sticking to their guns. They appear to be OK sacrificing commercial success in return for their artistic freedom. Not everybody chooses to do that…

A bit of bull**** revisionism from Mr Cairns I suspect. Troublegum wasn't their first album. They had two mini albums (Babyteeth, which I still rate as one of the greatest Irish releases ever, and Pleasure Death) and a full album Nurse, which was their debut album for A&M. After Nurse, they released Troublegum which many of their original fans saw as a complete sell out…

ZV Yoda

Android 666 wrote: »

A bit of bull**** revisionism from Mr Cairns I suspect. Troublegum wasn't their first album. They had two mini albums (Babyteeth, which I still rate as one of the greatest Irish releases ever, and Pleasure Death) and a full album Nurse, which was their debut album for A&M. After Nurse, they released Troublegum which many of their original fans saw as a complete sell out…

I'm not a big Therapy fan either way, so don't know the details... the point you make is interesting... some people suggested Therapy "sold out" with Troublegum... other might suggest they cut off their noses despites their faces after Troublegum. Depends on your view point really.

madtheory

The Therapy story is funny. I think it's silly, especially these days, to blame record companies for failed albums. This may have been the case with some companies in the past, but now that times are tight throwing money away like that is impossible.

ZV Yoda wrote: »

but the bottom line is this... Irish national radio stations (state run & commercial) need to play music that appeal to the masses.

Absolutely agreed. But the problem is not black and white. Government facilitates risk averse PDs by tailoring the license so that the 30% is not enforced in an effective way. Hand in hand with that is PDs making assumptions about what the public want. Instead, they save money by not surveying the listenership. That's a false economy IMO. Smaller stations like Tipp FM and Kerry FM have a smaller audience so are genuinely in tune with what they want.

What's needed is real enforcement and more imagination from more PDs.

The Villagers are a good example of yet another top class Irish band that you'll rarely hear on peak time FM.

Rockshamrover

madtheory wrote: »

Quality is subjective. A thriving industry is real.

I'd rather have the subjective quality.

The world has moved on, the audience have so many other sources of entertainment than just the radio.

The recording industry is probably more likely to be killed by advances in home recording quality than anything else.

madtheory

What you'd prefer is one thing, putting food on the table is another. That is what a thriving music industry really means.

The thing is, Louis Walsh is extremely keen about airplay, he's an astute business man, so there must still be life in radio. And I don't know of any station that has cut staff due to loss of earnings. IMO the internet is over rated, as is illegal downloading.

Rockshamrover

madtheory wrote: »

What you'd prefer is one thing, putting food on the table is another. That is what a thriving music industry really means.

The thing is, Louis Walsh is extremely keen about airplay, he's an astute business man, so there must still be life in radio. And I don't know of any station that has cut staff due to loss of earnings. IMO the internet is over rated, as is illegal downloading.

No doubt times are hard but I doubt putting a set percentage of "Irish artists" on the radio would make things dramatically better. We just don't have a big enough home market.

Maybe radio stations would be laying people off if they were forced to play a certain percentage of homegrown music.