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Self build - help & advice please

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  • 28-09-2010 7:40pm
    #1
    peabee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭


    My husband and I have just begun the serious task of building our own house. We have decided to go the direct labour route. We have our plans, site and permission all organised and are currently looking for the mortgage. My husband came home with the detailed costing certificate for direct labour self builds - I nearly passed out!!! Help! I'm starting to have second thoughts! Where do we begin?! Any advice would be much appreciated!!!


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    #2
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,933 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    Moved from Live self builds thread


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    #3
    muffler
    Registered Users Posts: 45,933 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    peabee wrote: »
    My husband and I have just begun the serious task of building our own house. We have decided to go the direct labour route. We have our plans, site and permission all organised and are currently looking for the mortgage. My husband came home with the detailed costing certificate for direct labour self builds - I nearly passed out!!! Help! I'm starting to have second thoughts! Where do we begin?! Any advice would be much appreciated!!!
    I would suggest employing a QS and then perhaps widen the net a bit to take into account prices from other trades maybe slightly further afield.

    If it still works out a bit on the expensive side you may well have to consider reducing the size of the house and perhaps alter the design a bit.


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    #4
    kkelliher
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 1,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭kkelliher


    ditto Muffler's advice as a good quantity surveyor sitting down with you can be much more exact on the costs that the simple average guides used by most to assess the costs.


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    #5
    JuniorB
    Registered Users Posts: 379 ✭✭JuniorB


    Best of luck with the build peabee.
    Be very carefull on the finance side. Even when you have mortgage approval and all signed, sealed and delivered you are not guaranteed this money. The banks are coming up with every obstacle possible (value of site/finished build has reduced, your ability to repay has reduced etc etc) during the course of your build to reduce the loan amount.

    Do your sums and add 10/15% contingency because there is only one way that costs will go... and no matter what you say there will be changes :)


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    #6
    L driver
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭L driver


    Hi,
    Best of luck also. Self building will cause tension between couples so be able to take time out. A good QS is great as the others have said, a few hundred now will be saved over and over. Beware of trades, lots of sloppy work going on because lads not making a months pay before breakfast time. Go passive principles and practices, starting with your foundations.


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    #7
    peabee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭peabee


    Thanks for that! We've made a list of what needs to be costed and halfed it so I'm now on a mission to look at kitchen&bathroom units. I think I got these to keep me quiet!!
    I've been searching through the threads to see if I can find out anymore on Geothermal - my husband likes the idea but keeps hearing bad things about it. Please excuse my total lack of understanding but if we were to go with geothermal with UFH downstairs, do we need concrete floors upstairs (dormer so only 2 main rooms upstairs, the rest is attic) for the UFH to work effectively? Is it possible to have UFH with Geothermal downstairs and radiators upstairs? What do most people do? It would obviously be alot more expensive to get solid concrete floors upstairs and if we could do without we'd much prefer!


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    #8
    sinnerboy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,433 ✭✭✭sinnerboy


    Geothermal works best only in very well built highly insulated and airtight houses with high thermal mass . High thermal mass means concrete - which slowly absorbs , stores and releases heat energy . The houses heats up slowly - but it cools down slowly too .

    This suits some people - not all .

    The heat pump - if it is not to eat electricity - must be allowed to slowly recover heat from the ground . If you try to use it like a regular boiler* ( "turn it up high for a half hour " type of thing ) you will be ruined with ESB bills .

    So the heat pump will cost you a heck of lot more than a boiler ( min € 20k vs €2K ) will make more demands of your specification - more €€€'s . And make demands on your lifestyle* .

    Take a search through the forum to see how others got along ...

    .


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    #9
    RKQ
    Registered Users Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭RKQ


    peabee wrote: »
    Please excuse my total lack of understanding but if we were to go with geothermal with UFH downstairs, do we need concrete floors upstairs (dormer so only 2 main rooms upstairs, the rest is attic) for the UFH to work effectively?
    No you don't need conc floors upstairs. Lots of people have rads upstairs & UFH downstairs. A conc floor might be better with UFH pipes but its not neccessary, as there are alternatives.

    Your house will be zoned, so bedrooms will only need heat for a few before you go to bed.

    There are alternatives to rads that allow UFH to be used upstairs with standard timber joists.

    IMO personally speaking, its best to run UFH on night rate electricity. It is expensive to install, it does work, its very easy & clean and running costs are low.


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    #10
    kboc
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    I am just finihing my self build. Before i started i researched everything to within an inch of its lif, verging on splitting hairs.
    If i was starting again i would definitly have the following;

    foundation systems which passive, those sysetms with polystrene blocks. They are not that expensive when you compare strip (normal foundations) and all the associated work

    UFH upstairs and downstairs

    a timber frame house which is as well insulated as you can possibly afford.

    a warm roof

    all the air tight membranes and tapes where neccesary

    mechanical vent and heat recovery


    After this i would, if money allowed, possibly

    triple glazed windows

    lovely natural slates. Don't let anybody tell you the others will do the same job, they are either a sales man for those slates/tiles or somebody who hasn't got natural slates but wishes they did.

    Don't get hung up on heat pumps/solar panels/ mod con technology. I am getting a heat pump in. Mine will cost 12k sterling for the machine alone. I wish i used all this money for some of the ideas above (i don't have passive found system of timber frame), because if you build your house in such away (not hard to do) then a nice cheap efficient oil boiler will heat your space for very little money, and when wood chip burners reduce in price or heat pump tech improves in years to come, then get one!

    I employed a man to advise me on this. He is totally independent, takes comission from nobody and will advise you totally impartially on what ever method you choose, blocks, timber frame, etc. I can PM you his details if you want and speak to him. I, rather foolishly didn't heed all his advice and i missed on small details on improving insulation.

    Do it once and do it right! no regrets. If you don't have enough money, down size the house, don't down size the spec. My wife has now a house that she openly admits far too big. she would not listen!
    Enjoy

    Don't w


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    #11
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,762 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    JuniorB wrote: »
    Best of luck with the build peabee.
    Be very carefull on the finance side. Even when you have mortgage approval and all signed, sealed and delivered you are not guaranteed this money. The banks are coming up with every obstacle possible (value of site/finished build has reduced, your ability to repay has reduced etc etc) during the course of your build to reduce the loan amount.

    Do your sums and add 10/15% contingency because there is only one way that costs will go... and no matter what you say there will be changes :)
    You can sing that. We did a house a few months ago and the bank told client they would not pass over ANY money until after it was up (roof on, felted). So, contractor etc, and us, there had to be a deal done as we were effectively 'bridging' to get the house that far, first.
    kboc wrote: »
    Don't get hung up on heat pumps/solar panels/ mod con technology. I am getting a heat pump in. Mine will cost 12k sterling for the machine alone. I wish i used all this money for some of the ideas above (i don't have passive found system of timber frame), because if you build your house in such away (not hard to do) then a nice cheap efficient oil boiler will heat your space for very little money, and when wood chip burners reduce in price or heat pump tech improves in years to come, then get one!

    Sorry, that' doesn't make sense. You advocate NOT mod cons, and then tell us you spent 12k on a heat pump, and that instead to buy another mod con - pellet system - in a few years' time ?? :confused:

    Oh, and btw, no reason to think they'll be getting any cheaper, either.

    +1 on an airtight house, btw.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #12
    kboc
    Registered Users Posts: 458 ✭✭kboc


    galwaytt wrote: »
    You can sing that. We did a house a few months ago and the bank told client they would not pass over ANY money until after it was up (roof on, felted). So, contractor etc, and us, there had to be a deal done as we were effectively 'bridging' to get the house that far, first.



    Sorry, that' doesn't make sense. You advocate NOT mod cons, and then tell us you spent 12k on a heat pump, and that instead to buy another mod con - pellet system - in a few years' time ?? :confused:

    Oh, and btw, no reason to think they'll be getting any cheaper, either.

    +1 on an airtight house, btw.

    I spent 12k on heatpump it because i was too busy listening to sales reps for heat pumps and getting caught up in the renewable energies trend rather than putting my money into super insulated house. it is too late to change house type now, i only have a 6 inch full fill beaded cavity. If i were doing it again, i would do it completely different as mentioned earlier.


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    #13
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,762 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    kboc wrote: »
    I spent 12k on heatpump it because i was too busy listening to sales reps for heat pumps and getting caught up in the renewable energies trend rather than putting my money into super insulated house. it is too late to change house type now, i only have a 6 inch full fill beaded cavity. If i were doing it again, i would do it completely different as mentioned earlier.

    Ouch, I feel your pain. I got as far as about-to-fit it, and, well, chickened out..........now I feel lucky.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #14
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    OP I have one piece of advice for you, that could save you heaps of money in the long run.

    Find someone who knows what they are talking about to help you.

    Find either a QS, a good engineer, a good architect or a good foreman. Someone who will sit down with you, tease out the small details, and offer advice on what to look for. If either you or your husband have no previous experience in construction then honestly, you don't know what you're doing, and all the research in the world won't change that. Problems will come up that you can't even imagine right now, and if you have not got your details sorted and possible alternatives thought about, then you are going to cost yourself so much money.

    I've said it before here - you'll be on the back foot with every problem, trying to find solutions and costing yourself money as a result - whereas if you sit down with someone now, and your full set of drawings and any info you can find on kitchens/floor types/walls types/foundation details/chimney details/window details/roof details (Very important)/fixture and fitting details (lights, switches etc), tease out what you want, what's practical, what's too expensive etc, you'll be far better off.

    Forewarned is forearmed OP, and in construction, experience is everything. If you have none, you shouldn't do it without getting someone experienced to help you.A good foreman on site will do wonders, and a week spent with a QS or the like will solve problems before they even arise.

    I'll get off my soap box now - but I've come from a construction background (management side) and I've know how much experience counts for in this business and how much money and hassle it can save you.


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    #15
    yop
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 16,722 Mod ✭✭✭✭yop


    Best of luck with it, been there and worn manys the tee-shirt.

    Technologies have changed since I did ours 5 years ago but insulate, insulate, insulate!!
    Whether it be timber frame or block thats up to you.

    UFH and a direct expansion geothermal heatpump has worked for us, but we have a timber frame which has loads and loads of insulation.

    Don't rush the process, you have one shot to get it right, be sure you are happy with it all.


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