Benefits of Cycling with Power

Classyrider

I have been recommended to invest in a powertap wheel and wireless computer. In your opinions, what are the benefits in training this way? What gains, if any, are there in training with a powertap device as opposed to with a heart rate monitor? What are your thoughts ultimately? It's an expensive investment so i wondering if it is worth shelling out the €1800. Do many riders use these training devices?

Lumen

A powertap wheel and an Ant+ compatible computer should cost much less than €1800.

rp

Classyrider wrote: »

I have been recommended to invest in a powertap wheel and wireless computer. In your opinions, what are the benefits in training this way? What gains, if any, are there in training with a powertap device as opposed to with a heart rate monitor? What are your thoughts ultimately? It's an expensive investment so i wondering if it is worth shelling out the €1800. Do many riders use these training devices?

Main benefit seems to be for post-ride conversation: Power Meters

Classyrider

I was quoted this figure by one well-known bike shop. It incorporates powertapp wheel (mavic wheel is carbon) and wireless computer . If you can point out where i can buy similar or a less expensive model elsewhere, I would be very keen to know.

Also, I wld need to be convinced by the benefits of training with a powertapp device before shelling out my hard-earned cash.

DirkVoodoo

Why do you want a carbon wheel? Training with power is quite beneficial as long as you are willing to spend some time making sense of the numbers. Racing with power is debatable outside of time trialling, especially at amateur level. If you make it into a break it will probably be a "balls to the wall" effort and I doubt you will have much time for calculating your chances of staying away.

You can buy an elite built into an open pro or similar for a little over 800 euro online.

Or you could rent one, see if you like it and then make the investment.

Classyrider

All the supplier has was a carbon mavic wheel which, agreed, I wouldn't want .

Where can i buy or rent these ?

Is there a benefit in training with this if you are racing?

Beasty

Classyrider wrote: »

Where can i buy or rent these ?

www.cyclepowermeters.com

mloc123

If you don't know why you should train with power... Why are you looking to train with power?

ryan_sherlock

Powermeters are worth it if either
a) you will read up on how to use them effectively and use the results that it gives
b) have a coach that will work with the numbers and tell you what to do

I have being using HR monitors since I started riding and Powermeters for the last 3 years. HR monitors are basically pointless for me - it does not give me any useful feedback other than "my heartrate is not responding to me going hard, I must be tired".

I have had great success with PMs.

Not much need for a PM during a race, outside of timetrials (I think it was really helpful in helping me pace my hill climb championships - at least for the first 2 minutes). However, the PM gives really really useful information for looking at the race afterwards. Most people would be very surprised to see what sort of efforts are needed in races and the style of riding - very different from how people train.

I learn't lots looking at power files from races - it helps me understand what I need to do to get into the break - stay in the group etc... I have a post about this in the works, but not ready yet.

For instance - my Hill Climb at the champs was a pretty steady effort for 12 minutes. The 8.5 minutes it took me to climb the Shay Elliot in the RAS was anything but steady to stay with the lead group. Good to know these things and how they look so you can train it in future.

Classyrider

I am starting a training programme and my coach has recommended that I start using a power meter.

As I am new to cycling, I will be relying on the coach to read the data and interprete the programme from the power meter.

What interests me is how significantly people have progressed on applying power meter technology as opposed to a heart rate monitor. This technology would be quite recent as opposed to HRM.

Raam

Classyrider wrote: »

As I am new to cycling, I will be relying on the coach to read the data and interprete the programme from the power meter.

How new? You must have some lofty goals if you are thinking of splashing on a power meter.

alfalad

I would think that if you have a coach and assuming they know what they are talking about and know how to use the data then as Ryan said there is a lot more to be gained from it than just reading your heart rate. What matters is what goes through the pedals not what your heart is doing! The general consensus is that it's the way to go!

On the power metre itself remember there are many types and some that are not in the wheel but the cranks therefore you can change wheels (training to racing) and still have the power data. To me (someone who doesn't use power and doesn't train near enough to need it) it seems like a far better solution.

Classyrider

Lofty , i doubt it!

Although i am racing one year i got reasonably good results (with HRM training) so i want to build on that.

tunney

Classyrider wrote: »

I am starting a training programme and my coach has recommended that I start using a power meter.

As I am new to cycling, I will be relying on the coach to read the data and interprete the programme from the power meter.

What interests me is how significantly people have progressed on applying power meter technology as opposed to a heart rate monitor. This technology would be quite recent as opposed to HRM.

Its not that recent, been around for 20 odd years.

Alot of coaches, certainly in triathlon, now throw power around as a tool to mask their own cr@pness.

I've used power for 4-5 years and if you are willing to train by the numbers it will deliver much more bang for book.

Also you need to understand what you are doing. or at least have some grasp on it. Or at least have someone who knows and answers all your questions (cheers billy.fish)

Alot of reading and you'll need some software too.

Classyrider

Can you train outdoors as well as indoors on a turbo trainer? Do the results come relatively quick?

How can you apply the same wattage if there is a gradiant on the road...? These are my queries and so on.

tunney

Classyrider wrote: »

Can you train outdoors as well as indoors on a turbo trainer? Do the results come relatively quick?

How can you apply the same wattage if there is a gradiant on the road...? These are my queries and so on.

Seriously?

I'd advise against the PM.

alfalad

Have a read of this for a basic intro into the world, may help address some of the questions you have.

Think you are confusing a turbo trainer and a power meter. But as the power meter is on the bike (wheel or crank) you can use it indoors when you are training on a turbo and this is where a lot of guys (including people posting here) do most of there training as it's more controlled.

Classyrider

I would not be confused on the difference

I am interested in how people have progressed.

There are number of top coaches in Ireland are not in favour of this method of training as it results in overtraining. I have heard that a powermeter is measuring device which does not take into consideration the before, or after effect of training to certain wattage.

tunney

Classyrider wrote: »

I would not be confused on the difference

I am interested in how people have progressed.

There are number of top coaches in Ireland are not in favour of this method of training as it results in overtraining. I have heard that a powermeter is measuring device which does not take into consideration the before, or after effect of training to certain wattage.

Don't feed the troll me thinks.

alfalad

Classyrider wrote: »

I would not be confused on the difference

I am interested in how people have progressed.

There are number of top coaches in Ireland are not in favour of this method of training as it results in overtraining. I have heard that a powermeter is measuring device which does not take into consideration the before, or after effect of training to certain wattage.

Over training can be an issue regardless of sport and regardless of what you use to train. A good coach won't let you over train.

Can you train outdoors as well as indoors on a turbo trainer?

If you know what a turbo trainer is then you would know the answer to this question. Unless your asking can you set it up on your balcony/back garden.

mloc123

This isn't Nicolas' old man by any chance? Worried about his sons recent purchase.

mgmt

Surely you can just get a proper VO2max test. Find out your heart rate zones. Then you can ride at your threshold. I don't see the point in shelling out for an expensive power-meter.

manwithaplan

@ alfalad - I think you may need to parse the sentence differently. "Can you train outdoors (as well as indoors on a turbo trainer)". It still makes little sense but at least it banishes the image of the turbo on the side of the road.

alfalad

manwithaplan wrote: »

@ alfalad - I think you may need to parse the sentence differently. "Can you train outdoors (as well as indoors on a turbo trainer)". It still makes little sense but at least it banishes the image of the turbo on the side of the road.

Sorry so it does, that was a rather amusing image however!

tunney

mgmt wrote: »

Surely you can just get a proper VO2max test. Find out your heart rate zones. Then you can ride at your threshold. I don't see the point in shelling out for an expensive power-meter.

Oh right. When you out it like that I'll sell mine then.

RobFowl

mgmt wrote: »

Surely you can just get a proper VO2max test. Find out your heart rate zones. Then you can ride at your threshold. I don't see the point in shelling out for an expensive power-meter.

They are simple a set of variables which correlate only to an extent with performance,
The classic example is with Miguel and Prudencio Indrurain. both brothers on the same team and allegedly with the same V02 max yet in performance terms they were light years apart.
PM's are the present goal standard but need to be interpreted properly to get full effect. Using HR zones etc as well is still useful.

Classyrider

ok -the consensus is that assuming that have the money and a good coach to inteprete this data and do up a programme, then it is the way to go.

ryan_sherlock

Classyrider wrote: »

ok -the consensus is that assuming that have the money and a good coach to inteprete this data and do up a programme, then it is the way to go.

yes - all of that and the time and motivation to actually do the training

Classyrider

Yes - time and motivation as well. that's a given! Is there anything else i've left out?!

DirkVoodoo

Are you still considering the rental from cyclepowermeters? Honestly I can't see why you would spend that amount of money when you don't have a full understanding of training/riding with a powermeter. Your coach is being paid by you at the end of the day and it's easy for him to spend your money for you. You can rent one for 3 months or more at a fraction of the price you were quoted for a mavic, you still get the same benefit but at the end if you decide that it isn't for you or you aren't seeing the improvements you were hoping for, you can hand it back.

It would be quite hard to sell that powermeter in a year without taking a big hit.

tunney

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Are you still considering the rental from cyclepowermeters? Honestly I can't see why you would spend that amount of money when you don't have a full understanding of training/riding with a powermeter. Your coach is being paid by you at the end of the day and it's easy for him to spend your money for you. You can rent one for 3 months or more at a fraction of the price you were quoted for a mavic, you still get the same benefit but at the end if you decide that it isn't for you or you aren't seeing the improvements you were hoping for, you can hand it back.

It would be quite hard to sell that powermeter in a year without taking a big hit.

+1 would just be used to record sessions and not to steer them, like most people use HRMs, but alot more expensive

Lumen

tunney wrote: »

+1 would just be used to record sessions and not to steer them, like most people use HRMs, but alot more expensive

Ah, but they can be useful for non power targetted training programme too. With a power meter you can quite accurately track calorie consumption and guide a weight loss program.

By "you" I mean "one", obviously.

RobFowl

Lumen wrote: »

Ah, but they can be useful for non power targetted training programme too. With a power meter you can quite accurately track calorie consumption and guide a weight loss program.

By "you" I mean "one", obviously.

Seems an expensive rationale, It could cause weight loss because "one" can no longer afford food?

Lumen

RobFowl wrote: »

Seems an expensive rationale, It could cause weight loss because "one" can no longer afford food?

If I was as fat as Tunney I might consider it worth the expense.

tunney

Lumen wrote: »

Ah, but they can be useful for non power targetted training programme too. With a power meter you can quite accurately track calorie consumption and guide a weight loss program.

By "you" I mean "one", obviously.

Or you could just eat less and spend the money you would have spent on the PM on getting a custom rear derailleur made so you can ride a 52 on the back?

Lumen wrote: »

If I was as fat as Tunney I might consider it worth the expense.

yes I am quite tubby at the moment. Just under 12 stone, must starting wanting to lose weight.

alfalad

tunney wrote: »

yes I am quite tubby at the moment. Just under 12 stone, must starting wanting to lose weight.

I haven't been under 12 stone since I was a kid. Even when body fat was <6% I was over 13 stone!