Best Taoisigh - from Ireland or Dublin?

recylingbin

Ireland:
Biffo; Bruton; Charles J; Lynch; Cat and Dog Reynolds.

Dublin:
Bertie; Cosgrave; Costello; Mrs Doubtfire Fitzgerald; Lemass.

Other:
Dev .

Make a case for your fav, if you like.

strobe

I'm going to go for Laozi. I sighed the best for him.

brianthebard

depressing list when you look at it...

recylingbin

Fitzgerald

brianthebard wrote: »

depressing list when you look at it...

Oh, I don't know.
There are a few stinkers there, alright, but some good 'uns as well.

Dj Stiggie

recylingbin wrote: »

Ireland:
Biffo; Bruton; Charles J; Lynch; Cat and Dog Reynolds.

Dublin:
Bertie; Cosgrave; Costello; Mrs Doubtfire Fitzgerald; Lemass.

Other:
Dev .

Make a case for your fav, if you like.

How do you justify having Biffo the best for Ireland?

recylingbin

Fitzgerald

Dj Stiggie wrote: »

How do you justify having Biffo the best for Ireland?

I didn't justify him as anything.
He's one of a list of Taoisigh who come from Ireland.

Degag

Is anyone else slightly confused?

IvySlayer

Lynch

Toss up between Dev and Lemass. Dev did great things for this country, though not all while as Taoiseach.

Voted for Lemass, mainly for his economic policies.

Sheeps

Costello

Yeah, DeV or Lemass

arid

Lynch

Dublin seceded? :eek: Seems more like something Cork'd do.

Dj Stiggie

recylingbin wrote: »

I didn't justify him as anything.
He's one of a list of Taoisigh who come from Ireland.

Apologies, I now understand what you meant.

randylonghorn

Lynch

Sean Lemass by a mile.

DeV certainly had ability, but had his own agenda for what Ireland should be and become, and he imposed that ruthlessly.

SEPT 23 1989

Lynch

Lemass had his head screwed on

ebixa82

I always taught that Dublin was in Ireland and that a Taoiseach from Dublin was still the Taoiseach of Ireland.

galwayrush

Reynolds

It could have been Collins, looking at that list is like looking at what kept us a backward church controlled state for so many years to be replaced with self serving corruption.

Solair

Lynch

arid wrote: »

Dublin seceded? :eek: Seems more like something Cork'd do.

Maybe that's one way of ditching the debt. Peoples Republic of Cork and set up new banks.

Or, the IFSC can remain as the Republic of Ireland. Meanwhile, the rest of us could move on and set up Atlantis or Hibernia.

Obviously bank HQs would all be moved to IFSC first.

It could be like a really wet Dubai

bonerm

Lynch

From my limited knowledge of Irish history it appears to me Lemass actually tried to develop the country rather than just create an illusion of prosperity that we enjoyed in the current era. The 60's appeared to be a real period of innovation, revolutions and belief among the young of country. It was something tangible rather than the lie this country was sold in the 90-00's. Of course both bubbles burst in subsequent years but I guess that will always be the way in an unsustainable banana republic like this one.

Absurdum

Haughey

so can anyone seriously imagine "ENDA KENNY" sitting proudly up there?

mikemac

Lynch

I voted Lemass, he tried to modernize the Irish economy, one the best FF ever had

Himself and T. K. Whitaker, one of the best civil servants around.
Still alive and active at 93, respect!

Cosgrave for 2nd place, took over at the most difficult time, stabilised the country, in charge of innovative schemes like Arndacrusha and handed over power in 1932 when many expected violence.
Made a lot of tough and unpopular decisions like cutting the pension but it was neccesary at the time

Solair

Lynch

I think leaner times and crisis always being good leadership to the fore eventually.

Lemass was very much needed at that stage. The country was an absolute mess and was extremely depressed following the economic disputes with the UK and Dev's isolationist policies.

Politics became rather stale and lazy during the celtic tigre period. I don't think we're going to see any radical changes until the general election whenever that eventually happens. Something different and new leadership will emerge.

Crisis typically does that.

Zebra3

Dev was an asshole who pushed the agenda of a foreign church. :mad:

Solair

Lynch

Zebra3 wrote: »

Dev was an asshole who pushed the agenda of a foreign church. :mad:

It seems hardcore religious conservatism was all the rage at the time. Large chunks of Europe had become fascist dictatorships too.

I find anyone who talks about that period as "the good old days" has either got a few screws loose or a serious case of rose tinted glasses and selective memory. Two world wars, fascism, rise of dictatorships including the USSR, dawn of a nuclear arms race, the holocaust...

Thankfully we in ireland and europe only have to worry about rogue bankers, financial crisis, climate change and the odd terrorist. I'm definitely glad Im around in this era.

up for anything

bonerm wrote: »

From my limited knowledge of Irish history it appears to me Lemass actually tried but I guess that will always be the way in an unsustainable banana republic like this one.

You've blown your cover, Bob Septic Isle Geldof!

starbelgrade

Absurdum wrote: »

so can anyone seriously imagine "ENDA KENNY" sitting proudly up there?

I bet that Enda Kenny can. In fact, I'd say he regularly has wet dreams about it.

Dyr

feck taoisigh, cathal brugha's yer man

Sofa King Great

Lynch

The potential is here for a good discussion but i think the OP should be changed. Dublin is part of ireland. Also, why does Dev get a list all to himself?

In answer to the overall poll I'd have to say lemass for the reasons stated above

mikemac

Lynch

OP, what's the story with the Cosgrave option? Is that just Liam?

Technically WT Cosgrave wasn't a Taoiseach so is he off the poll? I think he should be there

laugh

What does it mean that they were from Dublin?

Have you checked when all of their parents moved to Dublin from other parts of the country?

That might effect their superiority.

topper75

Bertie

Dev pushed the catholic theocracy thing sure enough. But I don't know how people are quick to put him as being solely responsible for this.

If you look at a lot of the '16 people and the motivations for going out to certain slaughter, catholic fervour was right at the heart of that.

My point is - we probably would have had all that - Dev or no Dev.

I thought the Reynolds ending was tragic. He was a straight talker. Badly needed now.

MickShamrock

Costello

Dev.

ILA

Lynch

feelingstressed wrote: »

WT Cosgrave? I think he should be there

Funny man, funny man!

Jesus Wept

Cowen

First!

Riamfada

Lynch

Cosgrave did a pretty good job of stabalising a post war country in a short space of time and legally moving towards further independence but Lemass gets my vote for his economic policies.

I worked in a big company in Dublin and there was a sign there saying Lemass opened the company on that site in 1966. This year our jobs were all moved to Engerland.

bonerm

Lynch

The-Rigger wrote: »

First!

Says a lot about the guy that it got to 52 before someone would even joke-vote for him.

mikemac

Lynch

ILA wrote: »

Funny man, funny man!

I was serious

Ol' WT was da man! :cool:

Though technically he wasn't Taoiseach but President of the Executive Council afaik

Bob the Builder

Lynch

randylonghorn wrote: »

Sean Lemass by a mile.

DeV certainly had ability, but had his own agenda for what Ireland should be and become, and he imposed that ruthlessly.

Couldnt have put it better myself.


And I would rank Enda Kenny above Biffo as a taoiseach any day

thee glitz

Cosgrave

recylingbin wrote: »

Ireland:
Biffo; Bruton; Charles J; Lynch; Cat and Dog Reynolds.

Dublin:
Bertie; Cosgrave; Costello; Mrs Doubtfire Fitzgerald; Lemass.

Other:
Dev .

Make a case for your fav, if you like.

You can let the Dubs claim Charlie.

PeterIanStaker

Lynch

Lemass all the way.

TK Whitaker is often overlooked, nice to see him get a mention fair play.

starlit

Lynch

I'm between Lemass and Lynch but will go for Lemass as so many changes had occurred in Ireland around then and he was very successful as Taoiseach and had served his country for 50 years including his time in office and when during Easter Rising.

orourkeda

Your oul one is.

scientific1982

Lynch

Solair wrote: »

It seems hardcore religious conservatism was all the rage at the time. Large chunks of Europe had become fascist dictatorships too.

I find anyone who talks about that period as "the good old days" has either got a few screws loose or a serious case of rose tinted glasses and selective memory. Two world wars, fascism, rise of dictatorships including the USSR, dawn of a nuclear arms race, the holocaust...

Thankfully we in ireland and europe only have to worry about rogue bankers, financial crisis, climate change and the odd terrorist. I'm definitely glad Im around in this era.

I know. Due to the media and the internet we see more violent images, leading to fear and paranoia. But this is actually one of the most peacefull periods in human history. Even crime rates are at an all time low, have been steadily declining for decades.

recylingbin

Fitzgerald

ebixa82 wrote: »

I always taught that Dublin was in Ireland and that a Taoiseach from Dublin was still the Taoiseach of Ireland.

You're a teacher?


Dublin is a west brit enclave.
Irish people know this.

who the fug

CJ was born in Mayo, so I think that leaves the Dubs off on that one, we had a close shave with Bertie in Cork

RobbieTheRobber

recylingbin wrote: »

You're a teacher?


Dublin is a west brit enclave.
Irish people know this.

When you say west Britain do you mean wales?

randylonghorn

Lynch

Zebra3 wrote: »

Dev was an asshole who pushed the agenda of a foreign church. :mad:

In fairness, the vast majority of people in the Irish state at that time did not view it as a foreign church, but very much as their church which they had adhered to loyally over centuries in opposition to what they viewed as the foreign church, the "Protestant church" (a misnomer in many ways, but common contemporary parlance).

Owwmykneecap

topper75 wrote: »

Dev pushed the catholic theocracy thing sure enough. But I don't know how people are quick to put him as being solely responsible for this.

If you look at a lot of the '16 people and the motivations for going out to certain slaughter, catholic fervour was right at the heart of that.

My point is - we probably would have had all that - Dev or no Dev.

I thought the Reynolds ending was tragic. He was a straight talker. Badly needed now.

Dev had a false vision of ireland he wanted to bring about, mainly due to the circumstances surrounding his birth.

Liam Byrne

What do you mean "from Ireland or Dublin" ?

Isn't Dublin in Ireland anymore ?