G-BHAW

Oscar Bravo

This aircraft is over in Ireland at the moment conducting detailed photo survey's.today it was over Knock village for around 4 hours and then went to Kiltamach and surrounding area.its recently fitted diseal engine gives it a massive endurance.A nice re-spray to boast too http://www.airliners.net/photo/Reims-F172N-Skyhawk/1729219/&sid=75f9eaf297a5eec19c4d687a07fe3a57

Delancey

Fascinated to learn that a diesel powerplant is used , I remember seeing something about the Russians using diesel powered bombers in WW2 to attack Berlin - they were a disaster as they were so slow , the Luftwaffe allowed trainees to shoot them down !

Manic Moran

I won't say that diesels are starting to become commonplace, but these days it's not a point of particular astonishment to hear that any particular aircraft on the ramp here in the US is powered by diesel.

NTM

ScabbyLeg

What sort of endurance does it have with a diesel engine? I thought the main advantage would be the lower cost of fuel.

donkey balls

a school out in weston had some diesel powered planes at one stage.

Oscar Bravo

She has 11 hours endurance.

Rudy Jakma

I have been out of the flying scene for some time now. Does anyone know if the problem with diesel powered aircraft has been fixed ?
I refer to the fact that a diesel engine cannot operate without electrical power. The vulnerability of petrol ("avgas")-engined aircraft in the event of an electrical failure has been solved by using magnetos to generate the sparks for the ignition. This system is totally independent from the aircraft electrics. If power is required for fuel injection this can be delivered directly by enigine-driven mechanical pumps.
A diesel only needs pre-heat to get it started, otherwise is does not need any ignition at all, combustion being achieved by the heat resulting from very high compression of the fuel mixture in the cylinders. But apparently the fuel injection system is highly advanced and needs electrical power to operate. Some diesel-powered aircraft have made forced landings because of that. My information is over two years old now. No doubt new regulations have been introduced since that force manufactureres to come up with a solution to prevent this from occurring. I reckon this was a teething problem with newly introduced technology. I think diesel power is to stay with us. Apart from being very frugal with the fuel, it is also safer as it is far less flammable. And, very important for aircraft: It packs more caloric energy per pound than avgas (in aircraft the fuel quantity is often calculated in weight rather than litres or gallons). And I love the sound of an aircraft diesel. It sounds more like a turbine.
BTW: I never asked but I reckon these things run on Jet A1 ? :cool:

Stovepipe

Hi there,
They run on jet A1, or rather, they are rated, for certification purposes, to be operated only on Jet A1.they will probably run just fine on regular road diesel but would be problematic if you flew road diesel up to cold high altitudes.I doubt if any aircraft diesel manufacturer will stand by the warranty if you feed it farmyard diesel.Which will lead, as I see it, to a conundrum,in third world countries.Do you try and get Jet A1, clean and well filtered or do you use local diesel, containing god knows what? So far, the backup for aviation diesel engines is very expensive and not widespread.
regards
Stovepipe

Rudy Jakma

Stovepipe,
Interesting !
Yes, I guess you are right. Tractor diesel may not be suitable for aircraft, if only for the fact that the water content in aviation is very much monitored and controlled. So it may go the way of mogas. Of limited interest for aviation use.
The other factor may well be the security issue. Even on small local airfield the days are gone when all you had to do was turning the door handle to walk straight out onto the aircraft movement area. Nowadays one has to ID, wear a high-vis vest etc.
Aerodrome managers do not appreciate any more people walking around with cannisters filled with flammable liquid.
Apart from the fact that Jet A1 is now nearly universally available, even on many smaller aerodromes.
And they want to use every opportunity to earn a bit of money - understandably now that business is still shrinking.
Then the warranty issue, a valid point. Just like approved ink in inkjet printers. In the event of a problem, even if not related to the ink used, the rep just puts down the phone when they find out that the ink used was from an alternative brand.
But still, I have the feelinjg that diesel will have a future. What to call it, "AVDI" ?

ei1429

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

This aircraft is over in Ireland at the moment conducting detailed photo survey's.today it was over Knock village for around 4 hours and then went to Kiltamach and surrounding area.its recently fitted diseal engine gives it a massive endurance.A nice re-spray to boast too

Shot Over Ballinrobe
Credits to Brendan Nutley Photography

Shot Over Ballinrobe
Credits to Brendan Nutley Photography

donkey balls

Rudy Jakma wrote: »

Stovepipe,
Interesting !
Yes, I guess you are right. Tractor diesel may not be suitable for aircraft, if only for the fact that the water content in aviation is very much monitored and controlled. So it may go the way of mogas. Of limited interest for aviation use.
The other factor may well be the security issue. Even on small local airfield the days are gone when all you had to do was turning the door handle to walk straight out onto the aircraft movement area. Nowadays one has to ID, wear a high-vis vest etc.
Aerodrome managers do not appreciate any more people walking around with cannisters filled with flammable liquid.
Apart from the fact that Jet A1 is now nearly universally available, even on many smaller aerodromes.
And they want to use every opportunity to earn a bit of money - understandably now that business is still shrinking.
Then the warranty issue, a valid point. Just like approved ink in inkjet printers. In the event of a problem, even if not related to the ink used, the rep just puts down the phone when they find out that the ink used was from an alternative brand.
But still, I have the feelinjg that diesel will have a future. What to call it, "AVDI" ?

hey do you know that normal every day petrol is more flammable than JET A 1;)

Oscar Bravo

ei1429,that must of been last year when she was over was it? badly needed the new paint job!!

Growler!!!

ei1429 wrote: »

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

This aircraft is over in Ireland at the moment conducting detailed photo survey's.today it was over Knock village for around 4 hours and then went to Kiltamach and surrounding area.its recently fitted diseal engine gives it a massive endurance.A nice re-spray to boast too


Shot Over Ballinrobe
Credits to Brendan Nutley Photography


Shot Over Ballinrobe
Credits to Brendan Nutley Photography

Am i the only one to spot the baggage door open?:eek:

ei1429

Just checked the Metadata on the file, the photo was taken the 04 June 2009, 16:19:55, a good time back alright! LOL

Stovepipe

Hi DB,
Jet A is very difficult to light unless you vapourise it, which is how it is ignited within a jet engine's combustion chambers.The same applies to diesel.It would be interesting to see if anyone will operate an aviation diesel on regular diesel rather than aviation kerosene.
regards
Stovepipe

Oscar Bravo

Operating over Ballinasloe for 6 or 7 hours today.

Oscar Bravo

G-BHAW was operating over(sometimes low level) Kilkelly(Co.mayo),Swinford and the surrounding area around Knock Airport all day today.

Oscar Bravo

Another Diseal powered Cessna over here at the moment conducting Aerial surveys,its D-EFUC,Breighton based.It was operating over Claremorris today and Athlone in previous days.Pict http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1249692/

ei1429

Any idea where he is based for the duration of the survey?

whyulittle

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

Another Diseal powered Cessna over here at the moment conducting Aerial surveys,its D-EFUC,Breighton based.It was operating over Claremorris today and Athlone in previous days.Pict http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1249692/

D-EFUC passed over Athlone the other week. It was as quiet, I thought it was a microlight or something when I heard it approach.

Oscar Bravo

ei1429 I think its based at Galway while its over.whyulittle,it is as you say very quite.The only thing you can hear is the wind catching her wings!! Ideal for long photo survey's.

Rudy Jakma

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

Another Diseal powered Cessna over here at the moment conducting Aerial surveys,its D-EFUC,Breighton based.It was operating over Claremorris today and Athlone in previous days.Pict http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1249692/

Hi Oscar Bravo,
Terribly pedantic, I know:D but the type of engine you refer to is a DIESEL.
I was a German invention by a chappy called Rudolf Diesel before WW2. Mercedes already had a diesel engined car in the 'thirties.
Originally they were deemed fit only for lorries, stationary power units and the like. This because of their heavy built. And the smell of the heavy fuel.
They were heavy beasties because the fuel ignites due to the high compression needed for self-combustion without ignition.
And the early cars were sluggish, they were noisy due to a sound like "pinking" and they were smelly.
In the 'seventies Mercedes built a prototype sports car. Oringinally intended as a "supercar", the project was abandoned. Only a few were built and later re-engined with Diesels in order to demonstrate that these engines were coming at age.
And now, of course, technology has progressed to the point where diesel engines can be built light enough to be used in (light) aircraft.
And that has a number of advantages:
Diesel fuel is a close relation of jet fuel. Diesel engines can be made to run quite well on Jet A1 or JP 4.
And this type of fuel packs more energy, pound for pound than AVGAS.
Which means, of course, that the range of a diesel-powered aircraft is much increased given the same fuel tank capacity.
It must have killed Mogas in it's track. Mogas never was a good alternative to AVGAS anyway and jet fuel is now available at virtually every aerodrome.
And another spin-off, apart from the total absence of an ignition system, is that jet fuel (as diesel fuel) has a higher flash point than petrol and therefore the risk of fire is substantially reduced.
Has the problem with the electric fuel pumps been solved? Anyone knows?
That was the Achilles heel: the requirement to have electrical power at all times because of the high pressure injector system.
So if the alternator fails the diesel engine will keep running only for as long as he battery still has power.

ei1429

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

ei1429 I think its based at Galway while its over.whyulittle,it is as you say very quite.The only thing you can hear is the wind catching her wings!! Ideal for long photo survey's.

LOL yea its a bit of "Now you see me, now you don't"

If the wind calms a bit I will try to get to galway early one of the mornings for a couple of photos.

alan85

ei1429 I think its based at Galway while its over.whyulittle,it is as you say very quite.The only thing you can hear is the wind catching her wings!! Ideal for long photo survey's.

There was me thinking somebody's doing some expensive hour building... lol... Was wondering about the Cessna flying around...

Rudy Jakma

Oh isn't that wonderful ? The days of hour building are great ! Scrounging around to find someone to come along and share the cost.:)
Going where you don't really want to go, but where the guys who are picking up their share of the tab insist you should go.
Flying into a controlled airport and having ATC yell at you and giving you an internal extension number to call them as soon as you have landed.:eek:
Not knowing exactly where you are and heaving a sigh of relief when the town you were looking for appears right underneath your starboard wingtip.
Getting into a blind panic again because the map says your town should have a railway and you do not see it .
And finding you're off the hook again because you recognise the town off your port wingtip as the one you had been looking for. And you were only 10 miles off course !
Having to cope with sulking mates in the train back home :cool: because you failed to check the TAF properly and your return destination is definitely IMC !
Oh, those wonderful days of hour building.:D
Where have they gone ?

Oscar Bravo

"Flying into a controlled airport and having ATC yell at you and giving you an internal extension number to call them as soon as you have landed".The ATC at Knock love that sort of thing ha! (Thanks for the DIESEL paragraph above).

Rudy Jakma

Air tragic control - oops !:pac:
Had to give up flying 2 years ago. Could no longer afford it.:(
I did not think I'd miss it. I turned to photography and found that it is probably cheaper to keep flying as a hobby. Good camera 2500, a few lenses, another 3000, a flasgun 500, another few bits and bobs and then Canon, Nikon, Fuji or Sony (whose lenses you own whose camera bodies you buy) the latest bit of technology and suddenly there is another few grand again to be spent.:rolleyes: These digital cameras age very rapidly !
But I have had my fun and games with airplanes. Been there, done it. I took up a glider pilot for a spin in a Piper Super Cub and let him fly it. We were in a hilly area. He was zooming a bit low and close around the tops of rocks and trees so I turned around and told him I was taking over. A surprised "I thought you had it all the time". We were zooming around the hills and probably the air currents were doing the turns and twists for us. He was used to the very much lighter "feel" of the controls in his glider, thought I had taken over and had simply let go. Something from a Laurel and Hardy scene!
I also remember like it was yesterday my very first flight as newly minted holder of a twin rating.
In a brand-spanking new Cessna 310. I was to pick up a business relation of the owner of the aircraft. The flight was between two major international airports. I had just been upgraded 3 days previously from Piper Cubs, C172's, Cherokees and the likes so my instructor, an airline captain, was to accompany me. The day before the flight he called me to tell me he had to fill in for another captain so I'd better go to the CAA and collect my licence as I would be on my own.
Nervously I waited at the meeting point in the airport terminal.
My passenger, an American, approached me. I identified myself and he wanted to know "what type of airplane are we going to be in"?
To me, fresh from the PA18, a 310 was still a BIG airplane so I proudly announced "a Cessna 310 sir."
His jaw dropped "I had expected a real aircraft like a Gulfstream or a Learjet, not a little flimmer".
That was many years and flying hours ago.
And do I miss it?
Wel, to be honest, gold darn it, yes !:mad:

Rudy Jakma

Yes guys, that little 152 would seem to have the baggage door unlocked.
Unless there is valuable stuff in the hold, the risk is virtually non existent. Once at flying speed the door will only open a crack. The risk that stuff will fall out exists mainly when taxying and perhaps during acceleration for take-off and again when slowing down after landing. Could be embarrassing if on a photo flight the photographer's 30.000 Euro digital Hasselblad has fallen out !:D
A door opened once to me on take-off in a 310.
The entrance is over the RH wing and the door warps around over the top to make entry (and exit) easier. You then clamber over the seats to get in.
The door has a large two position handle. Position 1 grabs the latch, 2 locks them in place including a latch in the top.
For some reason the door was not secured in "position 2" and somewhere during the take-off roll the top unlatched.
Not a major drama but there is a lot of wind noise suddenly.
Anyway, the owner was in the RH seat. He was also a qualified pilot with ME and IR. We reacted as if we had rehearsed it many times:
I closed the throttles which allowed the owner to fully unlatch the door and push it half open. He slammed it shut, engaged the latches and I opened up again.
We were taking off from a large airport and still had more than twice the required runway length ahead so we just continued.
And talking about "goofs":
The 310 had an oil dipstick at the back of the nacelle, just ahead of the wing. One day during the pre-flight I noticed that she needed a bit of oil.
The aircraft was hangared and there was a mechanic on duty.
I asked him to top up the oil and whilst he did it, I continued with my preparations.
I re-checked the oil level and all was fine.
What I did not re-check was the filler cap. That was located at the front end of the engine, on the top and just behind the propellor.
We were going to Gatwick I believe.
At some stage over sea the owner, again in the right seat (we exchanged seats between flights) tapped me on the shoulder and pointed outside.
From the cover in the nacelle over the filler cap the entire engine was covered in black oil. I could see it ripple as it streamed out.
The owner suggested that we turn back.
I suggested we keep going. The oil pressure was still normal, so were the temperatures. We were just about halfway over the water. If the oil temperature would start to rise - or pressure to fall - there would be ample time to shut it down. In the meantime he still had a good chance of making it to his business appointments.
So we decided. No fuss, no "priority landing".
At the parking (in those days at the Queen's Building) I got some rags and wiped the engine cowling clean. The filler cap was off but still dangling from a safety chain. The mechanic had forgoten to replace it.
When I checked the oil quantilty I was surprised to find that topping up was not even necessary. What looked like gallons of black sooty oil was in reality no more than 1/8 pint. The engine capacity was 8 US qt.
And of course: the PILOT is responsible, not the mechanic !
The moral of all this ?
NEVER ever hurry your pre-flight checks !:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

Oscar Bravo

I dropped into Sligo today(trying to avoid showers) and EI-BPL from Shannon was there,it would seem this aircraft has a Diesel engine too.

Big Dee

G-BHAW operating at low altitude over north Co Louth last week.
Very distinctive sound to that engine ok.
What are they surveying as there seems to be no particular flight pattern.

xflyer

Heard D-EFUC out doing it's business last week. Early on it was operating around Sligo, by the end of the day it was heading towards Cork. That's a lot of surveying. I'm not even sure it landed in that time. The French sounding pilot had a bit of trouble understanding Shannon at times and vice versa.

As for the open baggage door in the photo of G-BHAW. Most likely it was deliberate to allow the surveying device to poke out. I've seen it before. The 172 is handy for that the way the cabin and baggage area is laid out out.

Heard G-BHAW operating last week too. Does anyone know exactly what kind of survey either aircraft are doing?

Oscar Bravo

Not exactly sure but when G-BHAW was operating around Knock Airport and the surrounding area it asked the Tower could they fly over certain roads near the airport/runway.ATC later let rip at them for crossing the extended centerline with permission!!

Oscar Bravo

G-BHAW noted in Enniskillen at 3pm today.

cavanman112

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

Not exactly sure but when G-BHAW was operating around Knock Airport and the surrounding area it asked the Tower could they fly over certain roads near the airport/runway.ATC later let rip at them for crossing the extended centerline with permission!!

Let rip for crossing the extended centreline with or without permission ?

D90

xflyer wrote: »

Heard G-BHAW operating last week too. Does anyone know exactly what kind of survey either aircraft are doing?

I was told they are selling aerial photographs of peoples homes etc - that was from their man on the ground who does the door to door stuff.

Not sure if there is any survey work taking place as well

xflyer

I had a friend who had that job for the Summer. They gave him a Cessna 150, a camera, film and batteries. His job for the summer was to take photos of houses all over Ireland. Then they left him to it. He had some great stories including being intercepted by a Puma helicopter in Northern Ireland and having to follow it to Bishopcourt.

Best flying job I ever heard of. He decided where and when he worked and if he wanted a day off. He just took it.

Back then the pilot took the photos. But after a Jaguar collided with a photo Cessna in Wales the rules were changed and a separate photographer had to be on board.

Yesterday there seemed to be a different G reg photo aircraft operating in the Midlands, low level. Probably another photo aircraft.

Nforce

Looks like G-BHAW's surveying days are over... http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5549



A victim of last night's gales

Stovepipe

Hi there
Unless it's back or a spar is broken, it's fixable. It was probably on photo ops rather than survey. Most survey aircraft have a boom which projects clear of the airframe.

regards
Stovepipe

Oscar Bravo

Not that it would of made much of a difference in last night winds, but was she tied/roped down before it happened?

xflyer

No sign of a tie down there. But it's possibly repairable although an insurance write off for sure. It's not the last we'll see of it, I think. A Cessna 150 Aerobat I had an interest in flipped over in a gale but was repaired and went on until some clot ran it out of fuel and finally parked it upside down in field for the final time. Then there was another 182 which lost the battle with the wind. That didn't survive. I think Stovepipe may have flown it at one point?

Sandbags on top of the wings, that's the best option. No lift generated.

Stovepipe

Hi there
@xflyer, Good oul JOON!:)

regards
Stovepipe

Oscar Bravo

And not to forget EI-BIE,blown over in Castlebar in the 80s and then drove down the Main St....ahhhh good times....

Jesus Nut

Oscar Bravo wrote: »

Not that it would of made much of a difference in last night winds, but was she tied/roped down before it happened?

No, its kept in between the fuel tanks most of the time by the terminal.
An awful shame of all 172's for this to happen to! Feckin wind

TW Mr Tayto

Stovepipe wrote: »

Hi there
Unless it's back or a spar is broken, it's fixable. It was probably on photo ops rather than survey. Most survey aircraft have a boom which projects clear of the airframe.

regards
Stovepipe

I'm no fixed wing expert, but to my eyes the prop took a beating too. I'm assuming they're expensive.

Stovepipe

Hi there
the prop is junk, the engine will need a strip inspection and a new fin and rudder will be needed. If the spars are good and the back isn't broken and the battery hasn't leaked into the airframe, then it's fixable.Not cheap but do-able.

regards
Stovepipe

xflyer

The engine on it's own will be worth saving.

Stovie, Poor old JOON, but the engine was in good nick. I've a soft spot for that aircraft.