Numb to life

LegacyUser

Hi,

I'm looking for a little perspective here, at least I think that's what I'm looking for, I'm not really sure.

I'm 40, male, married & have a little boy.

Six years ago I was working in IT, earning 45k a year & was doing great, In fact, I can recall at the time saying to someone, that "I keep looking over my shoulder expecting something to go wrong".

In the last six years it has, apart from my little boy being born, life has made me weary & numb & I don't really like it.

I'm in debt to the tune of about half a million, This is mostly made up of mortgage. we have our own home which costs us €1,300 a month & also an "investment" which costs an additional €600 a month. We bought this place on an interest only mortgage in the hopes of making a modest profit on it (we figured about 50k) which we could keep to put our son through college. Unfortunately everyone knows what happened with the property market & the place is now worth a little over half of what we paid for it. We're lucky in that it's let out (mortgage payment is €1,500 a month & we have it let for €900), but we're having to support it, (bear in mind that it's interest only & that's due to expire next year). I've already asked the bank could we reduce the payment (as they're the only ones making money on it) & they've said no.

In addition, my wife has had six miscarriages in the last two years. The last one destroyed me emotionally, she was able to cope with it, but I still get upset thinking of it.

My last job seriously screwed me over in terms of stress & bloodpressure & I had to leave. I think I became depressed as I contemplated suicide. Thankfully my wife spotted it & made sure I got help. Up to that point I was of the opinion that people who committed suicide were the most selfish of all, now I realise that's not so. To me it was the most logical solution, I'd think of it several times a day & even had the date I was going to do it picked. It was going to be an "accidental" death and then my wife & child would be provided for & mortgages paid off & life insurance paid out etc.

I have great days & I have day when I veg out infront of the PC & don't leave the house. I even got a dog to make me get up & walk him but sometimes that doesn't happen either.

My wife thinks I'm doing better now & most days I am, but really I'm not. I don't want medication, it's not that I don't believe in it, I can't afford it.

Thankfully we're both working but it upsets me greatly that I'm not able to provide solely for my family & have my son being brought up by his mother rather than his grandmother. This job however is coming to an end (temp contract although my wife doesn't know that). I've applied for about fifty jobs in the last two weeks & only got one reply (a pfo).

I'm just numb at this point. I'm numb to life & everything apart from my wife & son. I'd love to leave this craphole country we live in, but I've (literally) mortgaged our futures.

There is nothing that excites me or thrills me. Even eating tastes like cardboard. I'm totally & utterly numb. I know I've many things to be grateful for, but I've been kicked in the balls so many times by life now that I'm wondering if this is it ? I feel like I'm just waiting for death now.

Nevyn

Did you grieve at all after the miscarriages?
Did you go for any counselling?

I think you should start by going to your gp and getting him to give you a check up and then get a referal to start talking to a professional about where you are and how you are feeling about your life.

LegacyUser

OP here again,. Yes Thaedydal, I did, didn't get counseling as I was having it for stress for the last job & had learned coping mechanisms. I can't afford to, to be honest.

I forgot to put in the original post, I'm now earning nearly a third less than I was six years ago, only now have an addittional person to care for & also have (MUCH) higher outgoings.

I honestly feel that there's no way out of this. From the outside everything looks ok, but I have VERY bad days.

I don't really care enough about anything anymore to consider going to a GP, because I don't see it getting any better. Sure I can talk it through with someone, but apart from me having to pay for the privilege (which I can't afford), nothing changes. I'm still drowning in debt, I'll still have my problems to wake up to tomorrow, & I'll still be grieving & life will still be throwing crap at me.

Ickle Magoo

Would you make an appointment with MABS and also with your bank manager. I've found both to be very understanding when circumstances change and the bank especially really appreciates being kept in the loop and often do their best to accommodate people who aren't earning as much as they used to.

Money issues are awful and it can feel like there is no way out of the gloom but please talk to MABS and anyone you own money to and try to draw up a plan that gives you a bit more breathing space. Also, please make an appointment with your GP - if you really didn't care you wouldn't be posting here, ask your GP about counselling services available in your area for your budget.

Best of luck.

Nevyn

Have you gone to mabs to see if there is away to manage the debt better?
http://www.mabs.ie/

jessiejam

You poor thing feeling like that, I can understand it from your wifes point and also from a child of a parent that spent most of their lives looking for a way out of their "numb" life.

No matter how much it costs, you really should go and see a doctor. If your wage has decreased that much you should apply for a medical card. If you are not entitled you may be entitled to a GP card, if your outgoings are so high. That would be a bit of a help for you and I really do believe its the first and most important step in getting your life back on track.

You have everything to live for, you have a wonderful son and wife, who by the way, has also suffered big time over the miscarraiges.

Your son and wife need you, but they need you to be well. Couples councelling may be good for you both to work through the grief you have both suffered.

The only way from here is up
Good luck

By the way it may be no harm to give AWARE
or GROW a buzz, its a free service and may help you to get through the rough patches

Fittle

From what I've read OP, you have alot of good going on in your life.

You have a wife who sounds very supportive and a son, who I'm sure you adore.

Yes, you are in debt. The country is in debt. I'm not trying to undermine your debt by saying that, but try to get some perspective on things.
I won't say that you have a job and you should feel lucky - because I'm in a much lower paid job than I was 2 yrs ago, and I know for a fact there is nothing lucky in that feeling.

You need to get your head out of the sand OP.
You need to go to counselling for the miscarriages specifically. I've had a miscarriage, I know what I'm talking about. Just because you were in counselling for the work stress, doesn't mean you learned coping mechanisms for miscarriage. Contact the Miscarriage Assoc of Ireland www.miscarriage.ie - I found them a huge support, and they offer FREE services.
Also contact aware - again, another FREE service.
Contact MABS - another great FREE support agency.

Is there ANY chance you could get rid of the second investment? Any way at all??? That 600pm must be crippling you - particularly for a property you don't even live in. Could you increase the rent - could you try to rent it to a larger group of people (if you currently have a couple in it, what about renting out each bedroom seperately etc). Could you get a second job in the evenings - just to keep the wolves from the door??? Anything - chinese delivery man if that's what it takes.

If you write it all down OP, you have two situations here. One is bereavement and two is finance. Both can be sorted in an inexpensive way.

You said you have great days? That's a start. We all have bad days OP - I have days when I open the wine at 6pm...but I don't beat myself up over it...(although I probably should!). I just wake up the next morning and think 'Yesterday was crap, but it's gone..today will be better'.
Chin up OP - there IS help out there for you - you need to look for it though.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the replies so far. The miscarriages we've had have all been early (less than 12 weeks), on the last one we got (& saw) a heartbeat & all was great for a week until... The others I don't have as much of a connection with, but I still count them.

Regarding offloading the property, well if we were to do so, it would add just under €800 a month to our mortgage. I'm kinda hoping in about three years there would be a sufficient enough recovery that we could offload it with less than €50k loss. Until then the €600 while it is crippling us, is damage limitation. There's no option to increase the rent or anything else, it's an apartment & the guy who's there is on rent allowance, but he's a good tenant & we're lucky to have him there.

Unfortunately because of the fact we are both working, for now at least, (& yes I know how immensely lucky that is), we don't qualify for any benefits such as GP or medical card. Kind of a catch 22.

Yes there are two situations, but I think the financial stress may be contributing to the miscarriage one (or else life REALLY is that sucky).

Miss Fluff

You poor thing, you have an awful lot to contend with.

While I agree with others that you could benefit from counselling and going to see MABS, your absolute 100% priority now is your own mental health.

You HAVE TO go and see your local GP tomorrow. I can guarantee you that if you go to your doctor's surgery, lay your cards on the table and tell them you genuinely don't have the consoltation fee, no doctor will turn you away. Genuinely they won't. You have to go and see them.

Thoughts of suicide/general apathy/feelings of hopelessness can all be addressed but sometimes not on your own and while not in a position to make a diagnosis it does seem like you are badly depressed. Reactive depression sometimes does not require treatment and you can work through it but I think you are really suffering at the moment and seeking professional help will do you wonders. Getting that helping hand will help you cope so much better with what life has thrown at you.

Please keep us posted.

Nolanger

How much does your wife earn? When you lose your job you apply for Jobseekers Benefit. She can then apply for Family Income Supplement. It depends on how much she earns in her current job.

JuliusCaesar

Uncomfortably Numb wrote: »

OP here again,. Yes Thaedydal, I did, didn't get counseling as I was having it for stress for the last job & had learned coping mechanisms. I can't afford to, to be honest.

I forgot to put in the original post, I'm now earning nearly a third less than I was six years ago, only now have an addittional person to care for & also have (MUCH) higher outgoings.

I honestly feel that there's no way out of this. From the outside everything looks ok, but I have VERY bad days.

Please OP go to your GP. The public mental health services in Ireland provide medication for free and counselling/therapy for free. There is little to no waiting list to see a psychiatrist (maybe 2 weeks). They have psychologists, nurses who have counselling qualifications, and all sorts of services - at no charge.

LegacyUser

Thanks guys for the concern, it is heartwarming to see that people care.

I did the 3M test off the aware site & scored 42 (the answer to life the universe & everything eh??) Normality is pitched at around 33 (out of 100) so it appears by that I'm suffering depression.

I spoke with my wife last night & she was concerned & understanding so if it doesn't clear soon, I'll probably go to the GP.

Today is shaping up to be a bad day, I'm supposed to be working form home making appointments for the rest of the week & I just don't have it in me. I'm looking out on an overcast drizzly day & that's how I feel inside too Everything's all a bit "bleurgh" today...

I got up earlier & I knew it wasn't going to be great but it's accelerating, I guess I'm getting to the isolation stage

If I wasn't 40 I'd be perfect emo material

Miss Fluff

Uncomfortably Numb wrote: »

I spoke with my wife last night & she was concerned & understanding so if it doesn't clear soon, I'll probably go to the GP.

You are blessed to have such a loving and supportive wife.

I don't see the point in procrastinating when it comes to your mental health however. I think you should make that GP's appointment today and get the ball rolling to help yourself start feeling better.

Fittle

Go to your GP. Go to your GP. Go to your GP.

Please OP - you are doing no one any favours by accepting that today is going to be a bad day - yes the weather is crap, but you can fix things (you can't fix the weather though sorry!).

Pick up the phone and make an appointment. It will be the beginning of your recovery from this depression, which is mainly caused by financial strain. I'm not trying to make out it's a trivial strain - but you mental health is more important OP. Make that appointment!

i-digress

Go to your GP. Seriously.

I was diagnosed with a long term health condition last year. I spiraled downwards, I felt numb. Lost my appetite, lost my sex drive, everything seemed boring. I couldn't read, I couldn't watch television, nothing. I too planned my suicide. I cried all the time. But I waited to seek help, because in my mind it was my fault, I should be dealing with having a long term condition better. Then I felt guilty, because my husband was now dealing with a sick wife who wouldn't stop wallowing in unhappiness. My guilt made me feel worse.But it wasn't my fault. It isn't your fault.

I went to my GP eventually, and with some work things have looked up. I still have my condition, it still gets me down, but my depression is under control.

Yes, you have real tangible, problems. Mabs, as other posters have mentioned will help with that. But there is no shame in being depressed. Go to the GP, and be frank about your condition. If they prescribe medication he might prescribe generic drugs, or drugs that are cheap because they've been around for decades. Aware run support groups for people with depression, and your GP may be able to advise a reasonably priced or donation based counselling service.

If someone had told me last October when I thought I was having a nervous break down that in a matter of months I'd be happy, I wouldn't have believed them. But the sooner you get help the sooner you can start getting better.

Best of luck OP.

LegacyUser

please don't give up! there are resources there that can help you and you took the first positive step by telling us about your problem. please see your GP, there has to be options for you. i know that there is counseling services out there that charge based on what you can afford. i hope you can get the help you need and again please don't give up!

LegacyUser

OP here again.

Thank you to everyone who replied. Tuesday was a very bad day, I felt great yesterday & this morning felt like I was on a down again, so I made an appointment to see the doc tonight.

I did a little research & think I may have come across something very important to me, for years I've procrastinated about things, always starting other things in the middle of bigger things & also having almost no focus. I think these are two key things (that I never put together before). They're also both linked to depression.

I've also made the link that when I'm away in the sun (or it's sunny here), inft I generally will have excess energy, am very focused & most times start to lose weight.
I definatly think I might have a seratonin imbalance & will be looking into that.

I actually feel a lot better now that I've connected those dots.

LegacyUser

that's great news! here's to your recovery!

LegacyUser

OP, this might sound a bit trite, but you wouldn't consider arranging a short holiday with wife& son? If sunshine lifts your mood& gets you focused& the energy levels up, it may be just the boost you need. There are so many deals out there, 7euro flights with Ryanair ect- even if ye were to stay in a hostel/campsite (cheap n cheerful!)? Just to get some headspace/perspective...

LegacyUser

OP here again. Started on the tablets on Friday. Feeling pretty positive about things right now, (probably a placebo effect as they take up to tendays to start working).

Had a big work meeting this morning which went on for three and a half hours & my mind barely wandered at all. This is a very good thing as preciously I'd replay TV shows or movies in my head & totally zone out. This morning I was alert & even took part.

Also feeling positive about my issues. They're still there but not as overwhelming.

I'll keep dropping back to this thread on an irregular basis to update. Thanks to everyone so far on their contributions.

- AQuickBreather, unfortunately funds don't allow for a holiday & probably won't for some time, but we'll make do

LegacyUser

Hi Op,

Your post really moved me, can i just say how much empathy and compassion i have for you, i know the depth of numbness you speak of and it can be described as a living hell. I had a nervous breakdown 12 years ago now i lost everything, my family my home, i was only out of school and i failed all my exams, i had to get a job in a fish shop for 250 an hour this was when it was pounds! but i just felt i had absolutely nothing to live for, panic and anxiety set in and i just became so overwhelmed in my life, i was terrified, i also had to deal with my abusive childhood with many flashback and abuse i went through, and i had no one.

Here i am at 32 years of age healed, happy whole and complete! sob... im emotional now because i know how hard i worked to get here and because i know i am living the opposite of the hell i was living then it makes me sad to remember how hard it was for me.

I want to offer that hope that it is possible to heal, especially from a scary mental place, my brain was exhausted, exhausted from worry, stress and tension, i went to the therapy and bit by bit processed the inner turmoil i created a better life with new people around me who were nice to me, and supported me. I had to go on the dole then and i went to fas and did many art courses i remember feeling like such a looser for needing government help but it brought me further education and opportunity, but that time i was on the dole i really needed it, i had to make decisions for myself where i said its do or die, do what ever you have to to get better and thats what i did, so if you can see ANYTHING that you can do to help your situation do it, even if it means going on the dole and getting assistance? but you sound like you have always fallen into some job that has come your way and if you still want to work and feel it helps do that too.


But you have been pushed to your absolute limits, know that you are not yourself right now that circumstances have pushed you to the edge and i remember feeling comfort that killing myself was an option although i never tried it i felt it was an option of a way out, it is just an acknowledgement that you feel that bad inside and when you can connect with that and have compassion for yourself i really find it helps to move on from it.

I am very sorry about the miscarriages, heartbreaking and seems it really overwhelmed you with everything else that was going on, if you broke your leg you would understand that it needed 6 months to heal likewise if you break your head/brain you also need time to heal, men deserve to be able to be vulnerable too when they need it, they are always so strong and proud i can imagine how humiliating feeling this low can be, i am always there for my partner when he needs me emotionally i think it is nice to share a problem and i never mind talking things through, i think your wife sounds the same so take her comfort and feel her support, lean on her if you need it, i love being needed.


Today i am living my dream, i live in the countryside on a lake shore, i work from home as an artist and i am financially secure now, i followed my dream got a degree in Painting and made it, i cant believe i have actually i just realized i have but when you reach a rock bottom like that sometimes the only way back is up, if you put yourself first and try and feel that self belief great things are possible. You strike me as a hard worker who has always worked, with great potential there, there is no reason why you couldnt thrive with that, its just a matter of believing in yourself again! All this change could be an opportunity for greater things to happen maybe you will set up your own business, i dont know but just see yourself as the strong person that you truly are, you are just a bit sick at the mo, you have a little head cold!!




Anyway, keep the faith, you will rally again! Sending healing love your way, All the best XOXO

LegacyUser

After a fantastic two weeks (really felt bullet proof). I've been a little "off" this week. On Tuesday I had a call from my boss, who can be quite agressive on the phone. He was questioning me about some stuff but was very pointed in the way he was handling it. I was agitated all day. As I described it, "Rollercoasterish".

Wednesday brought more of the same , possibly a little worse, there was an element of self loathing. I hapenned to be on one of the upper floors of Debenhams in Dublin & was looking over the rail & a voice inside my head was saying "just lean over, it'll be seconds & then everything will be ok" It's not the first time I've had an impulse to jump from somewhere. I got out of the place quite quickly & all thoughts were gone. By the evening it had passed & I was feeling good again

Thursday was fantastic. Felt great getting up, had a great day in work, Went out to the movies & just had a great day.

Woke up this morning & felt slightly off. Then had another phone call which wasn't great, had some pressure lumped on me & someone shouting at me. they said I'll probably be let go next week, To be honest apart from the money (which isn't anything to be proud of), I'll be glad to see the back of it. It's just the finances going to take another hit
which I'm not sure they can take. I wrote to the building society yesterday asking them could they do anything on the "investment" property as it's really starting to strain. Second time in a month we've had a failed DD on it. I've had some weird thoughts going on & I'm back to procrastinating again.

I really hope this passes. I hate my job & I'm starting to hate life, not even be numb to it (which is worse).

LegacyUser

When it doesn't rain it pours.

Had been feeling good for a while after seeing the doc again., but this morning all that has gone by the wayside. I'm being let go from my job tomorrow & this morning, the building society wrote back to say that we don't meet the criteria for a moratorium on the mortgage.

I really don't know what to do with this. We can't afford to subsidise the mortgage on the other place now. we only have one income. I can pay the rent that's recieved off the mortgage but that's it. As it is, we've cut costs where we could & I've nothing left to cut.

I'm dreading the budget.

LegacyUser

This might sound radical, but you could always try moving to the UK and declaring bankruptcy. Their bankruptcy laws are far more lenient than in Ireland. There would presumably be more jobs there too.

From UK you could get jobs in Europe, you have a transferable skill and experience, as long as you are willing to get along and learn the lingo then anything is possible. (Speaking from experience!)

The bankruptcy laws in Ireland are frankly penal and the impossibility of escaping debts drives a lot of people to despair... in any case be proactive! The banks are at fault for lending you money for overpriced property, let it be their problem if necessary. Better than letting your family's life be destroyed by those bloodsuckers.

All the best.

George Orwell 1982

Uncomfortably Numb wrote: »

I honestly feel that there's no way out of this. From the outside everything looks ok, but I have VERY bad days.

I don't really care enough about anything anymore to consider going to a GP, because I don't see it getting any better. Sure I can talk it through with someone, but apart from me having to pay for the privilege (which I can't afford), nothing changes. I'm still drowning in debt, I'll still have my problems to wake up to tomorrow, & I'll still be grieving & life will still be throwing crap at me.

It sounds to me like you are suffering from depression. You need to negotiate with the banks so you can have some money to pay for your GP and maybe a psychologist. Talk to your wife about it. Say "look I know I'm suffering from depression but I'm determined to get help and sort it out."

Read Tony Bates book "Depression, The Common Sense Approach". It will help you understand why you are feeling this way.