Carers Car - Tax Rebates?

Gumbo

guys,

my friend is down as an official carer for her mother.
she basically does everything, pick ups, lifts, brings her on her shopping trips etc
everything that needs to be done etc.

anyway, she needs a new car now as her current car is a Santa Fe and her mother cannot get into and out of it easily.

shes been told that she can buy a second jand car and claim back VRT or some sort of tax rebate, is this true?

any info or a directional help in hand to a website or info card will be great.

thanks very much.

podgee

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/drivers-passengers-with-disabilities-tax-relief-scheme.html

helimachoptor

My Gfs aunty has availed of this when getting a new QashQai, a decent bit of savings

mickdw

Its a rebate of vrt & vat off a new car every 2 years which basically amounts to a free car every 2 years as vrt & vat are a huge percentage of a cars price. You are then free to sell the car at its normal market value after 2 years.
Its a great scheme for truely deserving cases but IMO its a complete disgrace the number of people who are getting this when clearly they shouldnt. Everyone locally here who happens to have an elderly person living with them seem to get on this scheme. Half of these old people never leave the house and have little need for a free car. The other half end up travellng in a non adapted car anyway as in many cases the people who get the car take the disabled seat etc out to hide the fack that they get the 'free car'. THe whole thing is a disgrace.

smash

Her mother would have to be disabled to avail of this scheme, not just old and frail.

Gumbo

mickdw wrote: »

Its a rebate of vrt & vat off a new car every 2 years which basically amounts to a free car every 2 years as vrt & vat are a huge percentage of a cars price. You are then free to sell the car at its normal market value after 2 years.
Its a great scheme for truely deserving cases but IMO its a complete disgrace the number of people who are getting this when clearly they shouldnt. Everyone locally here who happens to have an elderly person living with them seem to get on this scheme. Half of these old people never leave the house and have little need for a free car. The other half end up travellng in a non adapted car anyway as in many cases the people who get the car take the disabled seat etc out to hide the fack that they get the 'free car'. THe whole thing is a disgrace.

thanks guys, just needed something to print out and show her. her mother qualifies as disabled and has ben approved for a car grant. she wouldnt be buying brand now tbh maybe 07 or 08 IIRC.

mickdw

steve06 wrote: »

Her mother would have to be disabled to avail of this scheme, not just old and frail.

You would think!
Not the case in reality though. Health professionals seem to be a little too eager to certify this from what I have seen in multiple cases

soccerc

mickdw wrote: »

You would think!
Not the case in reality though. Health professionals seem to be a little too eager to certify this from what I have seen in multiple cases

You need a Primary Medical Cert to avail of this scheme and they have strict criteria for eligibility:

1. Be wholly or almost wholly without the use of both legs.
2. Be wholly without the use of one of their legs and almost wholly without the use of the other leg such that they are severely restricted as to movement of their lower limbs.
3. Be without both hands or without both arms.
4. Be without one or both legs.
5. Be wholly or almost wholly without the use of both hands or arms and wholly or almost wholly without the use of one leg.
6. Have the medical condition of dwarfism and have serious difficulties of movement of the lower limbs.


The medical assessment is carried out by the senior area health officer of the HSE area where you live and they are not eager to certify by any means.

mickdw

But all the normal old people are getting this under point No. 1 above. Old people who could reasonably expect to have imparted use of legs due to age ARE getting cars for family members under the guise of needing the car for themselves when the reality is that they rarely if ever sit in the car. Ive seen multiple cases at first hand - You have people who claim they have poor use of the legs and they are getting the cars.
Why should a typical 85 year old man who never had or needed a car all his life suddenly be able to obtain a free car for a family member just cause he is now old and cannot move around like he used to?

Gumbo

soccerc wrote: »

You need a Primary Medical Cert to avail of this scheme and they have strict criteria for eligibility:

1. Be wholly or almost wholly without the use of both legs.
2. Be wholly without the use of one of their legs and almost wholly without the use of the other leg such that they are severely restricted as to movement of their lower limbs.
3. Be without both hands or without both arms.
4. Be without one or both legs.
5. Be wholly or almost wholly without the use of both hands or arms and wholly or almost wholly without the use of one leg.
6. Have the medical condition of dwarfism and have serious difficulties of movement of the lower limbs.


The medical assessment is carried out by the senior area health officer of the HSE area where you live and they are not eager to certify by any means.

mickdw wrote: »

But all the normal old people are getting this under point No. 1 above. Old people who could reasonably expect to have imparted use of legs due to age ARE getting cars for family members under the guise of needing the car for themselves when the reality is that they rarely if ever sit in the car. Ive seen multiple cases at first hand - You have people who claim they have poor use of the legs and they are getting the cars.
Why should a typical 85 year old man who never had or needed a car all his life suddenly be able to obtain a free car for a family member just cause he is now old and cannot move around like he used to?

not a free car now is it mickdw? my friend got a quote today out of curiousity and for a brand new 10D Passat TDi RRP at 28k, she would have to hand over 21.5K. thats what the sales man printed out for her today, she showed him the acceptance cert from revenue etc
now she couldnt even stretch to that tbh, she is looking at 08 cars at a push but will more than likely end up with an 07 tbh
it just doesnt work with the Santa Fe, as i said her mother is with her every single day.

ive no doubt this scheme is abused and imo it should be enforced more but its like everything else including welfare fraud, dole fraud etc theres not enough inspectors to investigate!

im a PS worker myself, although in a totally different profession, but surely this is one good opertunity for redeployment?

vectra

mickdw wrote: »

Its a rebate of vrt & vat off a new car every 2 years which basically amounts to a free car every 2 years as vrt & vat are a huge percentage of a cars price. You are then free to sell the car at its normal market value after 2 years.
Its a great scheme for truely deserving cases but IMO its a complete disgrace the number of people who are getting this when clearly they shouldnt. Everyone locally here who happens to have an elderly person living with them seem to get on this scheme. Half of these old people never leave the house and have little need for a free car. The other half end up travellng in a non adapted car anyway as in many cases the people who get the car take the disabled seat etc out to hide the fack that they get the 'free car'. THe whole thing is a disgrace.

Dude,, Where do you get this stupid notion of a free car???

Please do not disrespect us people that are dependent on this scheme to help us have a decent quality of life

soccerc

mickdw wrote: »

But all the normal old people are getting this under point No. 1 above. Old people who could reasonably expect to have imparted use of legs due to age ARE getting cars for family members under the guise of needing the car for themselves when the reality is that they rarely if ever sit in the car. Ive seen multiple cases at first hand - You have people who claim they have poor use of the legs and they are getting the cars.
Why should a typical 85 year old man who never had or needed a car all his life suddenly be able to obtain a free car for a family member just cause he is now old and cannot move around like he used to?

As I said in my earlier post, applicants are medically assessed by the Senior Area Health Officer and the rate of applications passing are quite low.

The requirement to be "wholly or almost wholly without the use of both legs" relates to paralysis and not just someone less steady on their pins as they get older.

We've availed of the scheme since 2004 and the car is certainly not free, you are just exempt from the VRT and VAT which in my case this year was less than €6k.

On our first purchase of the car then retailing at just under €20k I had to cough up €14.5 k of the total purchase price plus the €1.5k cost of the modification.

mickdw

vectra wrote: »

Dude,, Where do you get this stupid notion of a free car???

Please do not disrespect us people that are dependent on this scheme to help us have a decent quality of life

Ok Vectra, Ive no problem with people who have a genuine case for the scheme. However I am aware that you are waiting on a new Octavia vrs. How much of a reduction will apply to this car & then tell me how much do you think that car will depreciate in 2 years. The figures will be pretty close. That is where I get the notion of the free car i.e. the sale price after 2 years being similar to the new price to you. This was certainly the case with the older larger vrt rates pre 08. I know when I bought a new car in 08, if someone told me, I would get the majority of my cash back on selling it in 2 years time, I would regard it as free.
Then dont get me started on the dodgy dealings with the garages & the used cars on this scheme. People are actually getting cash in the back pocket from this scheme by simply changing car after 2 years for one of same value as the trade in.
Also dont forget the petrol expenses that are allowed.

vectra

mickdw wrote: »

Ok Vectra, Ive no problem with people who have a genuine case for the scheme. However I am aware that you are waiting on a new Octavia vrs. How much of a reduction will apply to this car & then tell me how much do you think that car will depreciate in 2 years. The figures will be pretty close. That is where I get the notion of the free car i.e. the sale price after 2 years being similar to the new price to you. This was certainly the case with the older larger vrt rates pre 08. I know when I bought a new car in 08, if someone told me, I would get the majority of my cash back on selling it in 2 years time, I would regard it as free.
Then dont get me started on the dodgy dealings with the garages & the used cars on this scheme. People are actually getting cash in the back pocket from this scheme by simply changing car after 2 years for one of same value as the trade in.
Also dont forget the petrol expenses that are allowed.

OK
I will put this into perspective for you.

Immaterial of how much I am getting off this car I will be paying for it over 5 years.
Due to me being on a lower income this is not easy as it is a nice chunk each week.

I will sell my car in 2 years time for very close to what I paid for it.

This leaves me with a 3 year loan going on to my next car.

If I sell that 2 years later I still have a 1 year loan.
This all pends on the cost of cars rising or whatever, which could mean I would have to up mu loan to change.
Now in the space of 5 or 6 years show me my free car..I would like to claim it now to save me having to pay for one

I also never get any cash back from the dealer

Petrol expenses??
What expenses??

I get some excise duty back on fuel..I certainly do not get expenses.
I have to pay for every litre of diesel I put in my tank and get a rebate once annually..

robtri

kceire wrote: »

not a free car now is it mickdw? my friend got a quote today out of curiousity and for a brand new 10D Passat TDi RRP at 28k, she would have to hand over 21.5K. thats what the sales man printed out for her today, she showed him the acceptance cert from revenue etc
now she couldnt even stretch to that tbh, she is looking at 08 cars at a push but will more than likely end up with an 07 tbh
it just doesnt work with the Santa Fe, as i said her mother is with her every single day.

ive no doubt this scheme is abused and imo it should be enforced more but its like everything else including welfare fraud, dole fraud etc theres not enough inspectors to investigate!

im a PS worker myself, although in a totally different profession, but surely this is one good opertunity for redeployment?

I think the point is that Mickdw is saying is emphased by this...

Your friend could by a 2010 new passat valued at €28k for €21.5K
keep the car for two years and sell it for €21.5.. therefore the cost of ownership of the car excluding petrol amd maint. is zero.. in some sort of essence a free car....

Yes i know you need 21.k upfront...

vectra

robtri wrote: »

Yes i know you need 21.k upfront...

So therefore NOT a free car

Gumbo

robtri wrote: »

I think the point is that Mickdw is saying is emphased by this...

Your friend could by a 2010 new passat valued at €28k for €21.5K
keep the car for two years and sell it for €21.5.. therefore the cost of ownership of the car excluding petrol amd maint. is zero.. in some sort of essence a free car....

Yes i know you need 21.k upfront...

dont forget to add in the cost of fitting the swival seat up front and then the loss of resale value due to said swival seat fitted.

mickdw

Buy for 21k, sell for somewhere near 21k 2 years later.
So ok, you need to get a loan over 5 years to get hands on the 21k. Say at year 2, you might have paid back 10k and still owe maybe 14k. you can sell car for 21k, clear remaining 14k and have 7k of the 10k payments back so the free car is costing approx 3k over 2 years due to having to borrow the cash. If you had that cash sitting in the bank, it would be a free car considering interest on that money if in bank would be pretty much nothing nowadays.
There are people getting the cash back, I never said you were Vectra!

Yes it is fuel tax rebate.... I wouldnt say no to it.
Is there also a motor tax reduction?

and kceire, Ive personally swapped out the swivel seat out of one of these cars for someone and although the original mechanism was sopposed to be destroyed when swivel seat was fitted, it was not and was given to car owner to do with as they wished.

Gumbo

mickdw wrote: »

and kceire, Ive personally swapped out the swivel seat out of one of these cars for someone and although the original mechanism was sopposed to be destroyed when swivel seat was fitted, it was not and was given to car owner to do with as they wished.

yeah thats fair enough, its blatent bending of the rules there alright.

vectra

mickdw wrote: »

Buy for 21k, sell for somewhere near 21k 2 years later.
So ok, you need to get a loan over 5 years to get hands on the 21k. Say at year 2, you might have paid back 10k and still owe maybe 14k. you can sell car for 21k, clear remaining 14k and have 7k of the 10k payments back so the free car is costing approx 3k over 2 years due to having to borrow the cash. If you had that cash sitting in the bank, it would be a free car considering interest on that money if in bank would be pretty much nothing nowadays.
There are people getting the cash back, I never said you were Vectra!

Yes it is fuel tax rebate.... I wouldnt say no to it.
Is there also a motor tax reduction?

.

Oh the joys of it
And just to think of the money I could have earned at my prior profession Had I been fit and able to work these past 10 years..
I could have had a nice BMW M5 Paid for by working

But hey
Who cares..I scrape a measly few euro each time change my car.:rolleyes:

soccerc

mickdw wrote: »

the original mechanism was sopposed to be destroyed when swivel seat was fitted, it was not and was given to car owner to do with as they wished.

Where did you get that notion from?;)

robtri

vectra wrote: »

So therefore NOT a free car

i said in some essence it could be seen as a free car...
a car that over two years costs you nothing to own (not including running it) is in a way a free car...

kceire wrote: »

dont forget to add in the cost of fitting the swival seat up front and then the loss of resale value due to said swival seat fitted.

Cant comment on that as i have no idea of costs.. have you some costs we could look at???

vectra wrote: »

But hey
Who cares..I scrape a measly few euro each time change my car.:rolleyes:

i wud luv to scrape a few euros, instead of losing a fortune on cars:rolleyes:

mb1725

I've got a questuion here, I never realised that this scheme was subsidised so much every two years, but what happens to the car when it is sold on? Does the next owner get hit for the unpaid vrt?

mickdw

mb1725 wrote: »

I've got a questuion here, I never realised that this scheme was subsidised so much every two years, but what happens to the car when it is sold on? Does the next owner get hit for the unpaid vrt?

After 2 years the car regains full market value and can be sold as any other car without any vrt or vat having to be paid. Its almost magical!

mb1725

mickdw wrote: »

After 2 years the car regains full market value and can be sold as any other car without any vrt or vat having to be paid. Its almost magical!

So the vrt disappears? Is this legal?

mickdw

mb1725 wrote: »

So the vrt disappears? Is this legal?

The first owner gets a rebate cheque from revenue after paying for the car so in effect the car has had all taxes paid but the revenue just happen to pay it back to the particular individual who has the medical cert as a kind of digout. Thats the way it used to be anyway.

Its legal alright but annoying when you see all sorts driving around in new cars as soon as they can prove the granny has lost the use of the legs.

mathepac

mb1725 wrote: »

So the vrt disappears? Is this legal?

Just as it does with any 2nd-hand car that's not a foreign import.

robtri

mb1725 wrote: »

So the vrt disappears? Is this legal?

doesnt disappear, they are a few reasons for a lower VRT and exemptions...

vectra

robtri wrote: »

i wud luv to scrape a few euros, instead of losing a fortune on cars:rolleyes:

I would prefer to be able to work again and pay for my cars in a normal fashion.:(