So angry

femur61

I know we have exhausted our thoughts on the subject. But at the weekend chatting to some friends and family who all most work in the public sector they tell me how wasteful the PS still is. The causality dept here is Kilkenny is a joke, the consultant who is paid extortionate sums of money is never there. Some who work in another PS dept said if their managers who are on €200 plus per year left nobdoy would notice them.

So when are people going to stand up for themselves. In the Indo yesterday all it was cronysism the "boys who looked after each other".

Unfortunately, I will not organise a group who want change but will definitely support one. I am becoming so despondant with the rules of the country. The PS should not be a job for life and should be reviewed every few years. I personally don't thing if the IMF do come in it will be a bad thing for the country.

MrDarcy

The culture is the problem. They are not empowered to seek out and identify change, to go looking for improvements in work practices and to improve their performance year on year. They get an automatic pay increment regardless of what happens, so the whole public sector congretation is empowered to keep doing things in the same old way.

The balance of power from where I'm standing, seems to be completely with the unions, they make the decisions and if change or cooperation with change is to have any meaning (and it generally doesn't), then another pay increment has to be put on the table.

It seems that there is no solution to this problem because the people who are paid to manage the public sector, in fact have no real input at all into it. The management is done by trade unions.

dan_d

I wholeheartedly agree, however I no longer have anything to say on the subject and I'm sick of repeating myself. There are so many solutions to this problem, but they require people with balls to implement them and we don't have any. (obviously, I'm talking metaphorical balls!!)

We make things far too complicated. Twist and tie ourselves into knots to get "solutions" to "save money" and "create efficiencies" (management speak if ever I heard it). We have too many public servants and the whole thing is badly organised and paid too much.It has to be cut and it has to be re-organised. These are non-negotiable facts.

It's just that simple. When you hear hoof beats, don't think zebras.(try telling our politicians that)

MrDarcy

The thing is, when blunt force action is taken against the unions, people will get behind it. When Lenihan took on the unions last time, they knew they had no public support for strike action or any other type of action. The action that they did take, work to rules and stopping people leaving the country with the disaster that was made of the Passport Office, caused people to get absolutely furious with them.

Since then, notice there has hardly been a murmer out of Jack O' Connor and David Begg, I reckon Jack O' Connor is actually afraid to up the ante anymore, because he knows that there is a nasty and menacing dimension to the kind of anger that is emerging against his members...

amacca

MrDarcy wrote: »

I reckon Jack O' Connor is actually afraid to up the ante anymore, because he knows that there is a nasty and menacing dimension to the kind of anger that is emerging against his members...

hmmm.... nasty and menacing...against his members you say?

even nasty and menacing against him would be unacceptable in my book never mind his members!


If people have a problem why not organize counter demonstrations (should there be ps ones), lobby politicians elected representatives etc etc


Do you really feel that powerless and disenfranchised (or feel that others are) that it has become necessary to resort to a public firm vs private firm no holds barred grudge match?


.....forever blowing bubbles!

Absurdum

MrDarcy wrote: »

I reckon Jack O' Connor is actually afraid to up the ante anymore, because he knows that there is a nasty and menacing dimension to the kind of anger that is emerging against his members...

his members are mostly private sector, at least get your facts right before going on a rant

P. Breathnach

Absurdum wrote: »

... at least get your facts right before going on a rant

I think you do not appreciate the nature of ranting. Getting the facts right has little to do with it.

the_dark_side

Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are dumb. - Plato

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cczIYgDnX0

cursai

Absurdum wrote: »

his members are mostly private sector, at least get your facts right before going on a rant

Jack O Connor is holding out and co-ooperating because hes in a good position to get a nice government job in the coming years!!! Sceptism...i hope!

cson

And all the riotous crowds baying at the Dail gates thanks to this information we all know.

Oh... wait :rolleyes:

Fentdog84

I'm afraid the Celtic tiger spawned a bunch of overpaid spoilt little brats who wouldnt get out of bed for less than ten grand a day as the old saying goes.. these people need to wake up to real world particularily those in the public sector who continue to abuse the system. I'm not saying ALL in the PS are like that but the bottom line is that massive PS wage cuts have to be made particularily those creaming at the top. We need to get into line with the rest of Europe with wages, public spending & prices.

DriverMad

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/former-aib-director-appointed-as-finance-adviser-2355204.html

But this makes me more angry. The guy was on the board of the directors of a bank that was responsible for bad lending. Yet, he gets a a nice job as a finance adviser. This is a disgrace in my opinion.

mikemac

MrDarcy wrote: »

I reckon Jack O' Connor is actually afraid to up the ante anymore, because he knows that there is a nasty and menacing dimension to the kind of anger that is emerging against his members...

Most SIPTU members are private sector.
What anger are they facing?

Fentdog84 wrote: »

I'm afraid the Celtic tiger spawned a bunch of overpaid spoilt little brats who wouldnt get out of bed for less than ten grand a day as the old saying goes..

Sounds like tradesmen I tried to hire.
Who would then drop you for a bigger job down the road. :mad:

It's easier to get and negotiate with tradesmen now.

myrak

MrDarcy wrote: »

The culture is the problem. They are not empowered to seek out and identify change, to go looking for improvements in work practices and to improve their performance year on year. They get an automatic pay increment regardless of what happens, so the whole public sector congretation is empowered to keep doing things in the same old way.

The balance of power from where I'm standing, seems to be completely with the unions, they make the decisions and if change or cooperation with change is to have any meaning (and it generally doesn't), then another pay increment has to be put on the table.

It seems that there is no solution to this problem because the people who are paid to manage the public sector, in fact have no real input at all into it. The management is done by trade unions.

The balance of power is in the Dail...those at the peak of the gravy train are not going to derail themselves.

femur61

DriverMad wrote: »

But this makes me more angry. The guy was on the board of the directors of a bank that was responsible for bad lending. Yet, he gets a a nice job as a finance adviser. This is a disgrace in my opinion.

I was watching the highlights of the Ryder cup last night and it showed Paul McGinley waving the Irish flag after his winning put in 2002 and my husbanknd said to me "doesn't it make you proud to be Irish".

For golf yes, but everything else "NO".

FlutterinBantam

If you'll forgive me for going on a bit of a rant,I would put the problems of the Irish economy down to one thing: greed.

If you notice all the 'stakeholders' commenting on various mediums ,what have they all got in common?

Vested interest.

take the HSE WEST for example

You have Grealish withdrawing support from the GOVT. why?

Because he has the good of the country at heart? No sir,because he knows damn well that his arse is on a one way ticket out of office if he doesn't.

Then you have consultants coming on bleating that the service is on its uppers..it might be but if you guys on the front line weren't so intransigent and overpaid maybe it would work better.

5 million is the cost of abenteeism we are told.Has anyone stood up and taken on that elephant in the room....of course not...vested interests again...boost the pay with overtime and fook the begrudgers, the public will pay.

Of course we all would love to have care and hospitals on our door step but not at any price.

The vested interests would love us to go to bat on their behalf whilst they pick up their fat paychecks and slip off into happy retirement to 'the little place' outside Marbella.

Always look and listen behind the speaker, and check the agenda;)

dan_d

Bang on the head Flutterinbantam!!

Grealish's current stance on the HSE is so transparent it's ridiculous. As is the other chap who's at the same thing - can't remember the name, I pay that little attention to them, for the simple reason I know exactly why they are adopting this position...for themselves.


It adds even further weight to the argument that the voting system in this country needs to change.We need a system where a politician has to get country-wide votes to gain a position, not county/region-wide.Thereby forcing them to look at the country a whole.

The most irritating thing in a situation like Grealish's is that while he's throwing his demands around, you have to wonder where he thinks the HSE ARE actually going to save money.I appreciate their system is appalling when it comes to cost cutting and efficiencies, and they look in all he wrong places, but we just don't need so many hospitals scattered around the country.However, that's an argument for another day, as there's far more to it than that.

We are, fundamentally, ruled by greed.As the last 10 years have clearly shown.

FlutterinBantam

dan_d wrote: »

Bang on the head Flutterinbantam!!

Grealish's current stance on the HSE is so transparent it's ridiculous. As is the other chap who's at the same thing - can't remember the name, I pay that little attention to them, for the simple reason I know exactly why they are adopting this position...for themselves.


It adds even further weight to the argument that the voting system in this country needs to change.We need a system where a politician has to get country-wide votes to gain a position, not county/region-wide.Thereby forcing them to look at the country a whole.

The most irritating thing in a situation like Grealish's is that while he's throwing his demands around, you have to wonder where he thinks the HSE ARE actually going to save money.I appreciate their system is appalling when it comes to cost cutting and efficiencies, and they look in all he wrong places, but we just don't need so many hospitals scattered around the country.However, that's an argument for another day, as there's far more to it than that.

We are, fundamentally, ruled by greed.As the last 10 years have clearly shown.

I was listening to Newstalk today at circa 1730 when two 'economists' Moore McDowell and Maire Sherlock were banging on about the best way to sort out the current crisis.

Now , one would say to oneself two economists , both presumably well educated in the nuts and bolts of the profession, would be in broad agreement as to how best to dig ourselves out of the deep hole we are in.

Were they fcuk!!!!


Both at each others throats ,each promulgating their line from the vested interest they have.

Sherlock is the SIPTU economist, well, one of them.

WTF:eek:


How can anything be sorted out with that kind of shite

dan_d

I'm guessing that (unfortunately) that's because there simply is no solution.

Depressing thought.

P. Breathnach

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

... How can anything be sorted out with that kind of shite

Yup.

It's a bit like listening to the expert commentary that we have on this forum.

FlutterinBantam

Your point Walshy?

Scofflaw

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Your point Walshy?

Normally I'd just infract for this kind of thing, but you're so persistently and consistently unpleasant in this sort of playground way that I'm imposing a short ban as well. The next ban will be longer, and so forth.

moderately,
Scofflaw