Selling an Irish car to someone in the UK, laws?

Atominist

Hi, I'm selling my car, I have it for sale on donedeal. A man phoned me from the UK and says he wants to buy it, so we agree a price. He's already booked a flight for tuesday.

My question is what do I have to do when selling my car to someone from the UK? For example, my log book doesn't have "country" in the new owners name and address section on the back, do I need to get a new form?

My car is a Lexus/Toyota Soarer, it was first imported from Japan to the UK, then imported here on UK plates (I paid the VRT), now it's going back to the UK lol.

Thanks.

Midnight_EG

I'm really hoping this isn't a scam...you haven't been asked to deposit money or anything anywhere, have you?


I suppose the Soarer could be in mint condition, but just watch out with this guy coming over :P


Good luck with the sale.

CiniO

I've been looking in the web for any info about it, but didn't find anything.

In most EU countries, if you are buying vehicle in foreigh country and want to export back kto your home, what you usually do is unregister a vehicle in country of registration (which can usually be done by the owner), get a temporary number plates and temporary insurance (something valid f.e for a week), and drive it back home.
This seems to not apply between UK and Ireland, as there actually isn't really such thing as temporary plates.

If I was about to sell my car to the resident of any other country (f.e. UK) I would sign a small contract of sale with him. Just a piece of paper, that contains all my and his data (name, address, phone no, passport number, etc), all car data (registration number, vin number, make, model, engine size and number, etc), and statement, that he is buying a car from me, for agreed price. All dated and signed in two copies.
Then I would give him a car, and my registration certificate, as he's going to need it to register a car in UK. (without it he woulnd't be able to register it).
You also can't fill in new owner details as normal, because he's not resident in Ireland, so he can't be registered owner of the car in Ireland.

In case that he does something stupid with your car, or just fails to register it in UK, you have a proof that he bought it from you on certain date, and that the car is not yours anymore.

CiniO

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I'm really hoping this isn't a scam...you haven't been asked to deposit money or anything anywhere, have you?

Why would he be asked to deposit the money, if he's the one who is selling the car.

Midnight_EG

CiniO wrote: »

Why would he be asked to deposit the money, if he's the one who is selling the car.

Take a look through the scam thread, particularly stuff about Western Union.

CiniO

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Take a look through the scam thread, particularly stuff about Western Union.

I went through few last pages of that thread, and didn't find anything relevant.

But anyway - thing should be straight-forward. He is taking a flight on Tuesday, so I supposed he's going to come, see a car, and take it if he's happy with it.
I would accept only payment in cash, bank draft issued by Irish bank.
In case of bank draft, from UK, I would go with him to my bank, to make sure it's not fake.
And pretty much that's it.

scudzilla

CiniO wrote: »

I went through few last pages of that thread, and didn't find anything relevant.

But anyway - thing should be straight-forward. He is taking a flight on Tuesday, so I supposed he's going to come, see a car, and take it if he's happy with it.
I would accept only payment in cash, bank draft issued by Irish bank.
In case of bank draft, from UK, I would go with him to my bank, to make sure it's not fake.
And pretty much that's it.

Even an Irish Bank Draft i'd go to the bank with him, if ya can afford to write the cash off don't bother but i certainly would

CiniO

scudzilla wrote: »

Even an Irish Bank Draft i'd go to the bank with him, if ya can afford to write the cash off don't bother but i certainly would

Probably you're right.
But on the other hand, what's the risk?
Is it just that the draft will be falsified?
In the same way cash can also be fake....

Heh I remember when I bought my first car in Ireland.
We (me and seller) both found out, that we have bank account in the same bank, so we just turn the computer on, and I made a transfer to her account. As that was transfer within the same bank, it went to her account straight away. Then she checked it, and handed me the car keys

I think that's pretty safe way to pay for a car for both parties.

Atominist

He did want to pay a deposit by PayPal to secure the car, I said no I'll just tell any interested people to wait until after Tuesday. I have had alot of interest in the car, mostly people wanting to swap.

So he asked if there's a bureau de change at Knock airport (15 mins from me ), I've since sent him an Email advising him to change the money his end. He's got/had a few Soarers including a 800hp automatic :eek:.

scudzilla

CiniO wrote: »

Probably you're right.
But on the other hand, what's the risk?
Is it just that the draft will be falsified?
In the same way cash can also be fake....

Heh I remember when I bought my first car in Ireland.
We (me and seller) both found out, that we have bank account in the same bank, so we just turn the computer on, and I made a transfer to her account. As that was transfer within the same bank, it went to her account straight away. Then she checked it, and handed me the car keys

I think that's pretty safe way to pay for a car for both parties.

A bank draft is a piece of paper at the end of the day, quite easily forgable.

Won't cost ya anything extra to take it down the bank and get checked out

corktina

just sell him the car as you would sell it to anyone else....exporting it and re-registering it are his problem. Accept nothing but cash.(take one bill into supermarket or similar who will have a ultra violet (or however it works) checker thing at the till.

CiniO

corktina wrote: »

just sell him the car as you would sell it to anyone else....exporting it and re-registering it are his problem.

He can't do it the same as to anyone else, as he can't put new owner details on his reg. cert. This is only for changing ownership in Ireland.
He has to hand him a registration certificate.

Lemming

Atominist wrote: »

He did want to pay a deposit by PayPal to secure the car.

That screams "scam" to me. Money goes through, he then does chargeback via paypal and you're left with nothing (or a much reduced amount) and he's got his money and your car.

Tragedy

Lemming wrote: »

That screams "scam" to me. Money goes through, he then does chargeback via paypal and you're left with nothing (or a much reduced amount) and he's got his money and your car.

What? He said deposit, not the full amount and the OP already mentioned the buyer will be using a bureau de change.

Buying cars in the UK it's very VERY common practice to pay a deposit by paypal prior to viewing/buying the car.

An awful, awful lot of niche performance cars are significantly cheaper in Ireland at the moment than they are in the UK, and canny buyers over there are starting to cop on to that.

I see no reason to believe this is a scam, just check the notes for forgeries.

kildare.17hmr

I sold a sorer and 2 automatic skylines into the uk recently, delivered one to hollyhead at the buyers expense and the other 2 were collected and deposits ect taken by paypal. cars like these seem to have gone scarse in the uk

Atominist

OK this is weird, I got another call from someone in the UK trying to buy the car. I said it might be gone by tomorrow, he said he'll by it today. He wanted me to drive to Dublin airport to meet him, I said it's a bit last minuet and that I already promised it to the other guy and told to ring back tomorrow evening.

I'm not taking any chances now, I'm gonna tell both guys I want cash for the car. It's a rare manual version, manuals are meant to be worth 3 times more cos most Soarers are automatics.

kildare.17hmr

Easiest thing for you to do if your worried is meet the guy, go to the bank, lodge the money into your account and give him the keys. if he comes that far he wont mind

Atominist

Car sold, He arrived at the airport and changed pounds into Euros in front of me, only not as much as I'd have liked

CiniO

Atominist wrote: »

Car sold, He arrived at the airport and changed pounds into Euros in front of me, only not as much as I'd have liked

How did you made the transaction?
Did you give him your VRC?

spray_ball

I'm also in the UK looking to buy a van in Ireland - it's not as strange as you might think (a lot of people from Ireland go to the uk to buy and no one thinks anything of that!). The reason for me buying in Ireland is the model I want isn't readily available in the UK and the exchange rate (until recently) was attractive enough to be able to buy a vehicle, pay ferry and flight costs and register it in the UK for pretty much the same price (if not slightly cheaper) as what you can buy over here ..... if you can find what you want that is!

anyway from what I understand of the process is the seller takes a photo copy of the VRC and sends that too (ermmm can't remember) stating that it's being exported.

when the vehicle is registered in the uk (suppose to be within 2 - 4 weeks of entry to the country) all supporting documents have to be sent to the DVLA ,who then inform the authorities in the sellers country that the vehicle has been exported - simple.



(ps i'm only on this forum as i'm looking into 'exporting' from Ireland:rolleyes:)

galwaytt

...out of curiosity, where did you advertise, that UK buyer's are seeing it ?

Atominist

galwaytt wrote: »

...out of curiosity, where did you advertise, that UK buyer's are seeing it ?

Somebody had told him it was on donedeal.ie, I paid 3€ for a 2 month ad. I had loads of calls from this ad: http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/1533735

CiniO

spray_ball wrote: »

when the vehicle is registered in the uk (suppose to be within 2 - 4 weeks of entry to the country) all supporting documents have to be sent to the DVLA ,who then inform the authorities in the sellers country that the vehicle has been exported - simple.

Maybe DVLA will inform Irish autorities. Maybe not. Who knows.
If I was a seller in Ireland, I would send a letter to Departament of Transport in Shannon stating that Vehicle has been sold to foreigner and exported by him.

tossy

Car enthusiasts from the UK buying cars in Ireland is not unknown,first time i put my old Bora up for sale i got a couple of interested parties from the UK and even more from the US,i changed my mind and kept it though.Second time i put it up for sale it went to an Irish buyer

So dont automatically think scam.

galwaytt wrote: »

...out of curiosity, where did you advertise, that UK buyer's are seeing it ?

Piston heads and owner clubs/specialist forums id imagine thats where i advertised mine,i got all my UK interest from my piston heads ad.

v300

I sold my old Sera to the UK.

CeannComhairle

Just noticed this thread as I'm selling a car with an interested party from the UK making enquiries.

They want to hire an 'agent' to ship car to UK (rather than come over themselves) and pay by paypal.

My concerns:
1) Is the agent permitted to sign the transfer documentation on this person's behalf? I intend on making copies and sending all possible details to DoT.

2) After contacting Paypal they said they don't cover 'car' sales should any problems occur. I now intend requesting a bank to bank transfer as an alternative.

Have never done this before so a bit clueless about what's best. Any advice? Just don't want to get screwed cos they're adamant the agent's signature will suffice. Cheers.

Our man in Havana

You simply hand the new owner the logbook. There is nothing to sign or to send to the DOT. They won't register a change of ownership to anyone outside of he state.

CiniO

Our man in Havana wrote: »

You simply hand the new owner the logbook. There is nothing to sign or to send to the DOT. They won't register a change of ownership to anyone outside of he state.

I'd never hand VRC to anyone without obtaining a written receipt from him (perfectly contract of sale) signed by both parties (seller and buyer), stating all the details about the transaction.

CiniO

CeannComhairle wrote: »

My concerns:
1) Is the agent permitted to sign the transfer documentation on this person's behalf? I intend on making copies and sending all possible details to DoT.

What documentation are you saying about exactly?

2) After contacting Paypal they said they don't cover 'car' sales should any problems occur. I now intend requesting a bank to bank transfer as an alternative.

Probelem with bank transfer is that it would take most likely few days to complete, considering it's international transfer. Paypal will be instant.

CeannComhairle

CiniO wrote: »

What documentation are you saying about exactly?

The Vehicle Registration Certificate &/or any form this 'agent' may have me sign. My concern relates to the fact that they aren't going to be the new owners of the car, they're simply acting on his behalf. Might be overthinking it though.

CiniO wrote: »

Probelem with bank transfer is that it would take most likely few days to complete, considering it's international transfer. Paypal will be instant.

True.. but just in case they try to perform a chargeback, bank transfer removes that option. Probably being paranoid, but better safe than sorry.

Marcusm

CiniO wrote: »

What documentation are you saying about exactly?




Probelem with bank transfer is that it would take most likely few days to complete, considering it's international transfer. Paypal will be instant.

I'd be very wary of using PayPal to receive a significant amount of money for an unsupported transaction. A personal user cannot generally remove significant amounts of money from the PayPal system - isn't it limited to 250 per month - and the chargeback system means that just because you receive it doesn't mean it won't be taken back from you. Contrast this witha bank transfer - even if there's a dispute between the parties, the bank won't reverse the transfer once it's been done. Ie if you have received the money it's yours absent a court order (assuming the bank has processed it properly).

Transfers between Irish and UK accounts can also be quasi instantaneous (10-15 minutes to see it on Internet banking) if both banks are part of the Faster Payments Scheme and the IBAN is used and recognised by both systems. I have monthly experience of seeing this.

On the bank draft side no Irish bank is capable of guaranteeing a bank draft drawn on a foreign bank without making inquiries which take a number if days. However, majo Irish banks have UK branches or subs on which drafts can be drawn and which can be verified immediately.

Last point, anyone who uses an airport bureau de change to exchange money

Anan1

CeannComhairle wrote: »

Just noticed this thread as I'm selling a car with an interested party from the UK making enquiries.

They want to hire an 'agent' to ship car to UK (rather than come over themselves) and pay by paypal.

My concerns:
1) Is the agent permitted to sign the transfer documentation on this person's behalf? I intend on making copies and sending all possible details to DoT.

2) After contacting Paypal they said they don't cover 'car' sales should any problems occur. I now intend requesting a bank to bank transfer as an alternative.

Have never done this before so a bit clueless about what's best. Any advice? Just don't want to get screwed cos they're adamant the agent's signature will suffice. Cheers.

This one is a scam, tell them you'll only accept a watertight method of payment and they'll disappear.

CeannComhairle

Thanks for the advice Marcusm & Anan1.

I have insisted on bank transfer and they're talking about being sailors/not possible to get to bank. THe longer this one runs, the fishier it gets.

Cheers

Our man in Havana

Anan1 wrote: »

This one is a scam, tell them you'll only accept a watertight method of payment and they'll disappear.

+1

A scam to be sure. You can be sure that Paypal will take back the money.

spray_ball

CeannComhairle wrote: »

they're talking about being sailors/not possible to get to bank.

total scam .... loads of adverts on gumtree Et. al. where the seller just happens to be *ahem* off-shore... so you can't view the vehicle but they'll deliver it for a charge.... sounds the same only in reverse:mad:

(check out the scam thread)

[edit] though if you get them to pay through paypal as a 'gift' then PayPal can't take the money back... and you can keep the car with no comeback (has happened on ebay allegedly)[/edit]