Remix Competition 2 - DAW skills & Ear training

Neurojazz

Congratulations to this person, they got the closest to a complete mix that would be usable with some small amendments. Red dave got close to one shotting the competition but seemed to need some ear training - this next test will sort that out.


Ok, Deep end now - there are many ways to do this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3AtGB-MkoY

At 1:56 in there is an arpeggio (THIS IS ALL THAT IS NEEDED - THE TRACK IS NOT BEING REMIXED, JUST WANT THE ARPEGGIO RIPPED/TRANSCRIBED). You'll need some blackbelt DAW skills to be able to rip this. Also you ears are going to focus seriously to be able to get the riff out.

Now normally, you'd get an email just saying 'we need this for remixing, and midi is not available' - but i'll give some hints.

All must show their working via annotated screenshots - you must supply at least 10 screenshots at different points showing how you got around the many problems you will face ripping this manually.

You must also supply sliced audio, midi and a render of you emulating the sound made by the original artist.

This challenge will bring out the following.

Transposition skills, a keener ear, knowledge of DAWS capabilities and tenacity.

You can use http://imageshack.us/ for posting pictures or yousendit.com for files.

To make sure your work isn't copied - send links to myself via PM and then they will be posted en-masse next Sunday morning.

This is HARD. If you feel that this is too much for you to handle, please attempt it and post for help here if you hit a brick wall for tips.

Good luck all, and bear in mind next weeks will be just as challenging, but a final 'skills' check before we start on remixing the classics.

Should anyone want 'bonus marks' - they can format the work as a narrated video to get shared via networks for educational purposes - helping the music community at large.

Stab*City

Im gobsmacked.. WOW!! :D

Thanks for the kind words Matt!! Cant wait to start the next one..

Rockshamrover

That's a tough one matt.

I can't even do a screen dump:D

Will be very interested to see how this is done though.

Neurojazz

Rockshamrover wrote: »

That's a tough one matt.

I can't even do a screen dump:D

Will be very interested to see how this is done though.

Screen dump? are you on windows? - if so do this:-

Select the window you want to take a picture of.
Hold ALT+CTRL and press the Prt Sc button (over on the right towards the num pad)

Then press the windows key, click RUN, type MSPAINT and then press return.

Press CTRL+V to paste the grab into mspaint and save off as a GIF (a smaller file that's quick to upload)

Hope that helps.

Mac users just go to your genius bar and ask them :P

Rockshamrover

Neurojazz wrote: »

Screen dump? are you on windows? - if so do this:-

Select the window you want to take a picture of.
Hold ALT+CTRL and press the Prt Sc button (over on the right towards the num pad)

Then press the windows key, click RUN, type MSPAINT and then press return.

Press CTRL+V to paste the grab into mspaint and save off as a GIF (a smaller file that's quick to upload)

Hope that helps.

Mac users just go to your genius bar and ask them :P

I'm on Mac :mad:

Not to worry, I'll just look to see what the rest of the guys do.

Looking forward to it.;)

lazyatom

Command (Apple key) plus Shift and either the 3 key for the full screen or the 4 key for the option of selecting the part of the screen to grab. this usually saves a PNG file to your desktop.

Neurojazz

lazyatom wrote: »

Command (Apple key) plus Shift and either the 3 key for the full screen or the 4 key for the option of selecting the part of the screen to grab. this usually saves a PNG file to your desktop.

Cool - now he has no excuse! :P

Rockshamrover

Neurojazz wrote: »

Cool - now he has no excuse! :P

Damn:D

romarr

got to ask yourself why they felt the need to add horse neighing ... 2.01 /.02 !?

krd

romarr wrote: »

got to ask yourself why they felt the need to add horse neighing ... 2.01 /.02 !?

I'm wondering about the sleigh bells and glockspiele myself.

Neurojazz

krd wrote: »

I'm wondering about the sleigh bells and glockspiele myself.

That came from the same twisted minds that did this.

splitrmx

What KLF song are you linking to? That Youtube link is giving me a "video not available" message.

Neurojazz

splitrmx wrote: »

What KLF song are you linking to? That Youtube link is giving me a "video not available" message.

Just checked it - works here... Last train to trance central is the track

splitrmx

Neurojazz wrote: »

Just checked it - works here... Last train to trance central is the track

You're obviously not using Youtube in Germany. Loads more videos have been blocked than in other countries for copyright reasons. Anyway I'm guessing it's the uplifting major key string section near the end?

Neurojazz

splitrmx wrote: »

You're obviously not using Youtube in Germany. Loads more videos have been blocked than in other countries for copyright reasons. Anyway I'm guessing it's the uplifting major key string section near the end?

Not sure, it's the arpeggio at the time given - not giving any more hints away

Stab*City

Neurojazz wrote: »

Not sure, it's the arpeggio at the time given - not giving any more hints away

So am i right in saying that you just want the arpeggio stripped out and then midi extracted? and the screenshots n stuff? no actual tune remix? Are we then trying to recreate the arpeggio using the midi notes and a synth?

Neurojazz

Stab*City wrote: »

So am i right in saying that you just want the arpeggio stripped out and then midi extracted? and the screenshots n stuff? no actual tune remix? Are we then trying to recreate the arpeggio using the midi notes and a synth?

Yes. No remix of that tune, just the arpeggio. A skills check.

Clanket

I'm off to a wedding in Spain on Wednesday so don't think I'll have the time to get this finished but will have a mess tonight and tomorrow.

Out of interest is this want you want:-

1) Rip the audio from youtube - Anyone any good mac programs for this?
2) Slice it so all your left with is the arpeggio bit.
3) Bang that into your daw.
4) Re-create the arpeggio by drawing the midi.
5) Use a synth to try re-create the sound in the original?

I'm sure it's easy enough to do when you know how, but this is difficult for beginners. Looking forward to the notes on how it's done at the end.

Keep up the good work Neurojazz.

Neurojazz

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

I'm off to a wedding in Spain on Wednesday so don't think I'll have the time to get this finished but will have a mess tonight and tomorrow.

Out of interest is this want you want:-

1) Rip the audio from youtube - Anyone any good mac programs for this?
2) Slice it so all your left with is the arpeggio bit.
3) Bang that into your daw.
4) Re-create the arpeggio by drawing the midi.
5) Use a synth to try re-create the sound in the original?

I'm sure it's easy enough to do when you know how, but this is difficult for beginners. Looking forward to the notes on how it's done at the end.

Keep up the good work Neurojazz.

Try this.

Clanket

Neurojazz wrote: »

Try this.

Thanks. Would have done it myself at home later but was wondering did anyone have any good recomendations.

Neurojazz

Alofthedunnes wrote: »

I'm sure it's easy enough to do when you know how, but this is difficult for beginners. Looking forward to the notes on how it's done at the end.

I personally believe that if someone has the ability and you just show them things you found impossible/hard that they take to it pretty quickly - and when they see they can do this tricky stuff they get that all important confidence boost - anyone who figures this out when never doing it before will really surprise themselves and reap the benefits for years

lazyatom

the original thread is locked so apologies for making my comments here...

didn't get a chance to listen to the tracks from Remix Comp 1 till now. absolutely awesome stuff there. great stuff all round, imho!

kinda fills me with 'THE FEAR' really when you think about the near infinite variety/potentialities any track has given the same basic building blocks. the hours agonised over how much delay/reverb/compression to put on a single part, etc, etc... why go down one road when there's a much better sound somewhere nearby and you're failing to get it.

anyway, thoroughly enjoyed that experience. everything you pointed out Matt, i knew in my gut i should have changed before putting the track up. live and learn. always go with the gut.

i love The KLF. that sample is from How The West Was Won, isn't it?

Neurojazz

lazyatom wrote: »

i love The KLF. that sample is from How The West Was Won, isn't it?

No idea!

Rockshamrover

lazyatom wrote: »

the original thread is locked so apologies for making my comments here...

didn't get a chance to listen to the tracks from Remix Comp 1 till now. absolutely awesome stuff there. great stuff all round, imho!

kinda fills me with 'THE FEAR' really when you think about the near infinite variety/potentialities any track has given the same basic building blocks. the hours agonised over how much delay/reverb/compression to put on a single part, etc, etc... why go down one road when there's a much better sound somewhere nearby and you're failing to get it.

anyway, thoroughly enjoyed that experience. everything you pointed out Matt, i knew in my gut i should have changed before putting the track up. live and learn. always go with the gut.

i love The KLF. that sample is from How The West Was Won, isn't it?

Hey Lazyatom, That's the great thing about music. Almost infinite possibilities from a finite number of notes.

Keep plugging away.

Neurojazz

Remember to shout if you get stuck!

lazyatom

Neurojazz wrote: »

Remember to shout if you get stuck!

yeah... about that... uh, i can't seem to find the midi file anywhere online!

Neurojazz

lazyatom wrote: »

yeah... about that... uh, i can't seem to find the midi file anywhere online!

You know how long it took me to check that?

lazyatom

Neurojazz wrote: »

You know how long it took me to check that?

damn your in-depth knowledge of the web and all things musical!

boy, those KLF guys sure are thorough though aren't they? deleting their entire back catalogue and removing all traces of their legacy from the intertubes...

Neurojazz

lazyatom wrote: »

damn your in-depth knowledge of the web and all things musical!

boy, those KLF guys sure are thorough though aren't they? deleting their entire back catalogue and removing all traces of their legacy from the intertubes...

I don't think it was them... i think they nicked so many samples from other music that they got hammered by the publishers/writers.

lazyatom

even more sinister! :eek:

always admired their prankster ethic though. everything was a joke to them really. though, yeah, the Burn A Million Quid has probably bitten them on the ass now.

like all great conceptual art pranks the question has to be asked, "why? seriously man, WHY???"

drummond's book, 45, is a great read.

Android 666

I'm out of this one. My laptop has started giving me a white screen whenever I turn it on. I brought it down to the repair guy and I'm looking at nearly 200 euros to fix it. Not the type of money I'm going to have this side of christmas so I won't be making any more tunes or taking part in these competitions for the foreseeable future. You can all breathe a sigh of relief now.

krd

Android 666 wrote: »

I'm out of this one. My laptop has started giving me a white screen whenever I turn it on. I brought it down to the repair guy and I'm looking at nearly 200 euros to fix it. Not the type of money I'm going to have this side of christmas so I won't be making any more tunes or taking part in these competitions for the foreseeable future. You can all breathe a sigh of relief now.

Aw ****e.

Where are you.

There's a place on Georges Street - with these Korean guys (they're Korean Christians) they fix phones and laptops - but the also have lots of spares - they may have a spare monitor they can do a deal with you on. They replaced my motherboard when it burned out for €120.

krd

Android 666 wrote: »

I'm out of this one. My laptop has started giving me a white screen whenever I turn it on. I brought it down to the repair guy and I'm looking at nearly 200 euros to fix it. Not the type of money I'm going to have this side of christmas so I won't be making any more tunes or taking part in these competitions for the foreseeable future. You can all breathe a sigh of relief now.

Something else to check out.

Usually laptops have a socket for a full size monitor - you connect the monitor to your laptop. Boot it up and the monitor may come on.

You might be able to get an old monitor that could do the trick for 20 quid.

dasdog

Yeah, there should be a vga out (monitor) socket on most laptops. The output is usually routed from the lappers own screen to the external port by holding a function (Fn) key and something like F5. Just do a search for your model to see what does this and bring it over to friends/family and test. If it works you can probably pick up a CRT monitor for nothing these days. I know they are useful/portable but I hate the damn things. Too fiddly and expensive to fix (and slow in comparison)...give me a mini tower any day.

I think I'll opt out of the comp myself too. I just punched in some midi notes by ear (probably a mile off) but I have nothing that sounds like the synth being used and no "proof". I tried cheating too (even trying blog searches and checking Japanese web pages among others) and I'm pretty sure the midi version isn't out there. Aud > mid app converter results were just laughable.

red dave

Ahh dasdog,

Even send through any attempt at it. It's like the forum. It's only as good as what users input to it. If jazz only gets little or no attempts by users then why should he bother going onto the next level. I haven't had a chance to try this all week but will make some attempt at it tomorrow...it may sound like the most embarrassing crap I've ever tried but I'm sending it through in order to get feedback at where I'm going wrong etc. or even just to train the ears for it. Give it a shot and you might be surprised man.

krd

dasdog wrote: »

I think I'll opt out of the comp myself too. I just punched in some midi notes by ear (probably a mile off) but I have nothing that sounds like the synth being used and no "proof". I tried cheating too (even trying blog searches and checking Japanese web pages among others) and I'm pretty sure the midi version isn't out there. Aud > mid app converter results were just laughable.

Don't be such a wuss. I've got 7 bars of it done - and it fits perfectly. Wondering to do the lead in bar - which i can't hear that clearly. It's just the midi file you have to do - you don't have to recreate the sound. Which is something like Ice Cave piano - Preset C034 on some Roland things.

I didn't start by penciling it in - I set up a loop and played the chiclets on my Roland MC-505 (A machine I will be buried with) - played the chiclets til it sounded right.

Then pencilled them into Ableton - with a synth, that's nowhere near close and it fitted. The only bit I might have trouble with is the lead in of the arpeggio

The advantage with my Roland is there's no latency issues when I hit a note. Even with a few milliseconds latency on a DAW softh synth you can't get whatever it is you're trying to get right right.

Ear training though - really can take years. If you play something like guitar or piano and you're used to picking out tunes by ear - it's not such a big problem.

Don't be such a godamn wusss

Neurojazz

The whole idea about these little tests are to reinforce your ability to express your self to the max - even though this is mainly aimed at remixing, the skill transpose across to your Art.

Not being fluffy or esoteric about this, but you get out what you put in. Try harder and you become your bigger self. Simples.

I'm passing on as much as I can on this front (and via soundcloud) while I can and want to arm you with some skills that you might normally shy away from. If you were paying a manager he'd say this....

'Don't let yourself down, rise to it and eat the problem alive or it will eat you. Fight you Fu*ker, Fight.'

etc...

dasdog

I did mouse clicks in Reason, 1/32 notes all the same velocity/length and in the expected places (runtime 16 secs) which I did in about 20 mins so practically no work put in at all so no reward. The only way it sounds listenable too is if I loop the original in the background...but slices/screenshots...it would take longer to deconstruct and document than it took to try and re-interpret (am I even doing the write thing???). I spent many years doing the play-stop-rewind repeat ritual trying to figure out thrash metal songs in my teens

Neurojazz

dasdog wrote: »

I did mouse clicks in Reason, 1/32 notes all the same velocity/length and in the expected places (runtime 16 secs) which I did in about 20 mins so practically no work put in at all so no reward. The only way it sounds listenable too is if I loop the original in the background...but slices/screenshots...it would take longer to deconstruct and document than it took to try and re-interpret (am I even doing the write thing???). I spent many years doing the play-stop-rewind repeat ritual trying to figure out thrash metal songs in my teens

Well, with most apps available you might be able to slow down the playback.

The job should only take a short time - but it's the method and creative paths people can take to get there.. some people can transcribe by ear, but for those that can't we can use the tools at our disposal. Each DAW has different utilities.

krd

Neurojazz wrote: »

The whole idea about these little tests are to reinforce your ability to express your self to the max - even though this is mainly aimed at remixing, the skill transpose across to your Art.

Not being fluffy or esoteric about this, but you get out what you put in. Try harder and you become your bigger self. Simples.

I'm passing on as much as I can on this front (and via soundcloud) while I can and want to arm you with some skills that you might normally shy away from. If you were paying a manager he'd say this....

'Don't let yourself down, rise to it and eat the problem alive or it will eat you. Fight you Fu*ker, Fight.'

etc...

NJaze, is right - there are essential skillz you must learn (skillz, I have come nowhere near perfecting yet). Skillz, you must perfect before you can escape Noobville (Noobville - pop-you-lay-tion = you....A very lonely town)

Did the Karate Kid say to Mr. Miyagi - I can't take this any more - he did....But did he walk away?.....He did not walk away.

The Karate Kid ...Did not walk away.

You want to be bum belt all your life - or do you want to be black belt?

And Sean Nash - - Sean Nash - really liked your Sunrise remix - the silent remix. Your mixes are usually so loud - but that one was so quite it was virtually inaudible.

dasdog

There's some blackbelt sounds in that country about to dissolve (BEL) site you were referencing. Register/Download and up and running in no time. I'm trying to put 2+2 together and see how complex a snippet from a "rave/dance" or at the time in the charts song could be? I thought it was press a note and stand back Gary Numan style in awe at the new world. I think I have this all fvked up. Yousendit...an email service not a file host?

Neurojazz

dasdog wrote: »

There's some blackbelt sounds in that country about to dissolve (BEL) site you were referencing. Register/Download and up and running in no time. I'm trying to put 2+2 together and see how complex a snippet from a "rave/dance" or at the time in the charts song could be? I thought it was press a note and stand back Gary Numan style in awe at the new world. I think I have this all fvked up. Yousendit...an email service not a file host?

Filehost it is.

Stab*City

Not gonna have time to enter into this one.. ill see ye all next week.. im off to Paris till Friday!! WOOOOHOOOOO:D

Android 666

krd wrote: »

Aw ****e.

Where are you.

There's a place on Georges Street - with these Korean guys (they're Korean Christians) they fix phones and laptops - but the also have lots of spares - they may have a spare monitor they can do a deal with you on. They replaced my motherboard when it burned out for €120.

I'm in the Midlands so I won't be around George St. in the foreseeable. I have a friend dropping over later he might be able to help me out and if all comes to all my brother in law has an old monitor I can use. I'll get something sorted out for it anyways.

Neurojazz

Ok, will lock this thread and post winners name with next competition!