When to use reverb and when to use delay?

Cmc29

I know there is no hard and fast rule with any of these things but what is your general rule when it comes to choosing reverb and delay?

What instruments would you use which on? If a guitar is clean do you use a different one than if its distorted? Which would you use for rhythm guitar and which for lead? Which parts of the drums would you use which on and which would you leave dry?

Just for reference i record guitar, bass, drums and vocal. Usually light to heavy rock, some solos. I know it is something that very much depends on the track but what would your general tips be for me? The do's and the definite don't's?

madtheory

It depends on where you want to place the instrument- wide, narrow, close, far away; what the instrument sounds like, what the tempo is, the mood, the lyrics... this is not something you could write a guide for. It would be better to approach it the other way: examine what can be done with reverb vs delay. There is some overlap, but they're not interchangeable effects.

Cmc29

madtheory wrote: »

It depends on where you want to place the instrument- wide, narrow, close, far away; what the instrument sounds like, what the tempo is, the mood, the lyrics... this is not something you could write a guide for. It would be better to approach it the other way: examine what can be done with reverb vs delay. There is some overlap, but they're not interchangeable effects.

I know this is a broad subject and it is different for every song but i just wanted to hear how people generally approach it. I just want to hear what people have to say to see if i learn anything from it myself.

dav nagle

Look at reverb like salt, it isn't always necessary but a few pinches can be a good thing. Delay and reverb can be used very effectively on synths, vocals, snares. A delay on a snare can energize a drum pattern. Delay can multiply notes be it a midi programmed pattern or a guitar line. A short delay on a vocal can double the vocal to make it sound fatter in the mix. A pre delay on a vocal is great for rock and indie music in particular. When a vocalist sings a big part in a song you can add more reverb but rather than slapping it on the vocal automate the effect so just at that particular point the effect is used. In terms of space if an acoustic guitar is too clear and forward in a mix try a pinch of salt on the guitar and it will push the guitar back in the mix so it's not standing out so much. Reverbs and delays have different sounds so if one type isn't working try another, it may not suit the instrument you are using it on.

off.the.walls

depends on what you think sounds good theres no set rule to using it its just depending on the style of the song or the sound that you want for the song yaknow?

madtheory

dav nagle wrote: »

A delay on a snare can energize a drum pattern.

A delay on any instrument can energise the track. Delays that are in timings musically related to tempo/ keysig/ main rhythm motif can sound like reverb. And sometimes it sounds ridiculous.

dav nagle

madtheory wrote: »

A delay on any instrument can energise the track. Delays that are in timings musically related to tempo/ keysig/ main rhythm motif can sound like reverb. And sometimes it sounds ridiculous.

The guy is looking for a general perspective and a starting point to try his dab hand at a few things with delay and reverb. Telling him a delay on any instrument works will have him wasting his time on elements that are trickier than others but yes agreed it can be used on anything. So start with the basics, snares, vocals, guitars, that was my point.

Neurojazz

Delay can sound artificial/buggy if the timing is bang on, so sometimes worth adding a few ms to each echo so it doesn't land dead on the last one.

I'm a sucker for 1/8th / 1/8dth stereo echoes on leads/synths/guitar - and long tail reverbs on backing chords/synths that are shelved so you get a nice filling texture/wall in background washing around.

madtheory

Agreed, the key is starting with times that are musically related (because that's what works a lot of the time) then tweaking them. Pro Tools has a great delay, it allows you to sync to tempo using note values, and then offset them slightly if you wish. There's an LPF and some modulation, and you can feed the left back to the right if you wish. It's everything you'd need in a delay really.

dav nagle wrote: »

The guy is looking for a general perspective and a starting point to try his dab hand at a few things with delay and reverb. Telling him a delay on any instrument works will have him wasting his time on elements that are trickier than others but yes agreed it can be used on anything. So start with the basics, snares, vocals, guitars, that was my point.

I don't think it's a waste of time. He's far better off hearing what it sounds like, it's more concrete than reading advice on the tinternot (and possibly then creating mistaken assumptions). It's not like it takes a long time to experiment with delay, and it's really important IMO that a mix is not approached with hard and fast rules, just a set of guidelines to use as a jumping off point.

Lorne Bregitzer's book seems to be very good for this kind of stuff. There are some promo videos on youtube.

dav nagle

I disagree using delay on everything is not what i would call a starting point

madtheory

I didn't say "use it" I said "experiment with" it. Best way. Listen to it, play with it, see what it does. Combined with a decent book such as the one I referred to, it's far better than the internot. IMO.

trackmixstudio

My Logic template has 4 delays on busses.
1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 divisions.
Most stuff apart from drums get a bit of delay.
I use Logic's tape delay with lo pass at about 2-3k. The lo pass stops the delays sticking out too much.

Try setting up a bus with an in time delay (16th works well) then reverb. Now your reverb has a pre delay in the tempo of the song.

A great trick for a hard panned instrument is to send it to an opposite panned short delay (20-30ms) and lo pass it to about 1k. Tricks the brain into hearing things wider than they are.
For a fully left panned instrument, the brain hears the direct sound first then the duller delayed sound. This simulates the way your left ear would hear the sound then your right ear would hear the sound slightly later due to the sound passing around your head. Try it and see. Works great. I often use this for stereo guitars. Makes them wider without resorting to phase destroying stereo enhancer plugins.

I don't like audible reverbs in a mix (unless it's for effect).
I would generally use a short room reverb on the kit and guitars and a short pre delayed hall on vox. Not a fan at all of plate verbs.

shayleon

Cmc29, I use reverb almost on everything. as long as it's not too long, and doesn't have too much bass, I like it.

I use short delays only on vocals, and rarely on the sends to gel a mix that needs it.

This is what I do. It's not by any way supposed to be the right way. I'm an eejit.

cheers.

PMI

Theres no rules.... you can use these to create space or for ear candy etc..

after all the police used manual delays on hi hats on walking on the moon and other bands have broken moulds too

The dryer more transparent you can get the reverbs on a track the more in your face it will be