Danny Healy-Rae attacks Ahern's new Idea

Brussels Sprout

This is on the front page of the Irish Examiner (can't find it on the web-site though) today.

One of Jackie Healy-Rae's two county councillor sons, Danny, has strongly criticised a scheme by Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern to use teenagers to test the sale of alcohol to the under-aged saying it was a sting operation and would make "spies and informers" out of young people. Danny Healy-Rae is of course a publican.

Now I have no doubt that this is another ill thought out hair brained scheme by Ahern (remember the tax on ATM withdrawals to stop tiger kidnappings). However it is very irritating that this gombeen is coming out bleating about young people's rights as a thinly veiled defence of his own back pocket.

Eliot Rosewater

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

However it is very irritating that this gombeen is coming out bleating about young people's rights as a thinly veiled defence of his own back pocket.

Exactly. Healy-Rae has little or no argument here: the sale of alcohol to under-18s is illegal and Gardaí hiring youngsters to attempt to buy alcohol is probably the best was to prevent illegal sales. Healy-Rae is trying to poke holes in the scheme because he know he will lose money, but his holes are utterly fallacious.

If we were to carry his "spies and informants" reasoning to its logical extreme then we would result in a situation where aiding the Gardaí in enforcing the law (by providing testimony to help convict a burglar, for example) would be frowned upon. We wouldn't want to make "spies and informants" of the general population now, would we?

Biggins

The gombeen is also ranting purely for publicity/self-promotion for himself.
Wait and see, he probably will put himself forward in the next election.
That clown lump that is his father has trained the offspring well.

Brussels Sprout

The article also quotes him as saying "It was often difficult for a publican to tell the difference between a youngster of 17 or 19, particularly in the case of young women. A girl of 23 or 24 can look younger than a girl of 17"


How about asking them for some I.D. Danny?

Biggins

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

...How about asking them for some I.D. Danny?

Thinking of that idea would involve a few more brain cells. The O'Rea's have just enough to keep themselves going.
You can't expect miracles from them.

PeterIanStaker

Biggins wrote: »

You can't expect miracles from them.

The only miracle from a Healy-Rae is that he can walk and chew gum at the same time. Seriously though, he's covering his arse big time. I bet whatever pub he owns in the arse end of Kerry is full of underage.

Jeboa Safari

Legal age of drinking should be lowered to 16 anyway in my opinion, young people are still going to get drink, this won't stop them, the 16/17 year olds will probably just drink at home first and get even drunker.

mikemac

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Now I have no doubt that this is another ill thought out hair brained scheme by Ahern

How is it a hare brained scheme?
Using underage teenagers to buy alcohol has existed for years.
Even the media do it, Primetime did it in Swords just a few months ago.

The difference now is a garda will watch the teenager buying it.
Now the teenager is spared from going to court and the garda will give the evidence, their word as a witness is good enough

So we don't force teenagers who volunteer for this to go through court and face questioning.
It is improving what is already there

Maybe read up on the details first!

Executive Steve

It galls me to say it, but he's 100% right.

Biggins

Executive Steve wrote: »

It galls me to say it, but he's 100% right.

I think he's 100% wrong.

Sulmac

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

Legal age of drinking should be lowered to 16 anyway in my opinion, young people are still going to get drink, this won't stop them, the 16/17 year olds will probably just drink at home first and get even drunker.

I think we should have staggered ages for buying alcohol, where the stronger the alcohol, the older you have to be to buy it.

In Belgium and the Netherlands (and Germany, I think), you can buy beer, wine and cider at age 16 and the stronger stuff at age 18.

In some of the Nordic countries (Norway, Finland), you can buy the weaker stuff (under 22%) at 18 and the stronger stuff (over 22%) at 20.

I'd favour lowering the age for beer, wine and cider to 16 but keeping it at 18 for the stronger stuff. Realistically, most 16 year olds have drank alcohol already.

Though, to be honest, a lot of it comes down to the parents - it's really their responsibility to introduce their children to alcohol responsibly.

Anyway, on the topic, if Danny is working within the confines of the current law, he has nothing to worry about.

rightwingdub

The Healy-Rae family seem to have gombeenery in their family genes.

fontanalis

Executive Steve wrote: »

It galls me to say it, but he's 100% right.

Yes he's right. It's a sting to find out whose breaking the law. Underage drinking in a lot of places could be stamped out overnight if the will was there but publicans do well from it.

Biggins

fontanalis wrote: »

Yes he's right. It's a sting to find out whose breaking the law. Underage drinking in a lot of places could be stamped out overnight if the will was there but publicans do well from it.

So you agree with him that these stings should not be used to find who is supplying drink illegally and causing many a week-end (or mid-week) unrest?

Coillte_Bhoy

For god's sake, the guards know well what pubs are serving underage. Every town has it's one or two places. Why they dont crack down on it, i have no idea but this is a harebrained scheme.

fontanalis

Biggins wrote: »

So you agree with him that these stings should not be used to find who is supplying drink illegally and causing many a week-end (or mid-week) unrest?

I only agree that it's a sting and have no problem with them being used to find out whose breaking the law. Something Forrest Healy-Rae doesn't care about.

Biggins

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

For god's sake, the guards know well what pubs are serving underage. Every town has it's one or two places. Why they dont crack down on it, i have no idea but this is a harebrained scheme.

Knowing it and proving it according to state adopted rules "Book of evidence" are two vastly different things and if you knew the differentiation between the two, you would understand this and thus know why they need to be caught "in the act".

What does the Book of Evidence contain?

The documents which must be served on you or your solicitor are as follows:

• A statement of the charges against you
• A copy of any sworn information (in writing) upon which the proceedings were started, that is, the written complaint made by a Garda
• A list of the witnesses whom the DPP proposes to call at the trial
• A statement of the evidence that is expected to be given by each witness at the trial
• A list of any exhibits to be introduced at the trial.

Knowledge and hearsay is one thing. Getting actual indictable evidence is another.

Biggins

fontanalis wrote: »

I only agree that it's a sting and have no problem with them being used to find out whose breaking the law. Something Forrest Healy-Rae doesn't care about.

Cool, just my reading of your post, I though you were supporting him completely that such stings should not be used. I got confused in your wording of just "Yea, he's right".

fontanalis

Biggins wrote: »

Cool, just my reading of your post, I though you were supporting him completely that such stings should not be used. I got confused in your wording of just "Yea, he's right".

Technically he's right about the sting part, it's just his opinion on the implementation of it where he reveals his true nature.

Biggins

fontanalis wrote: »

Technically he's right about the sting part, it's just his opinion on the implementation of it where he reveals his true nature.

If publicans are sticking within the law and not supplying drink to minors all along, from day one, their profits should not be effected by any stings or fear of them.
If they are doing the right thing any way, they have nothing to fear.

Its only those that are breaking the law but might curtail their actions for while, that will see their profits effected.
So if Rea junior is standing up for them - technically he's standing up and speaking out in favour for legal criminals - and thats no way for any elected local or possible state representative to behave!

The Raven.

I certainly would welcome a scheme that would put an end to the sale of alcohol to minors by publicans and off licence retailers, as the current legislation is simply not working. However, I do share the reservations put forward by Alan Shatter, and I would hate to see the young volunteers of this scheme being put in any danger as a result.

http://www.alanshatter.ie/?p=1478

Having said that, the teenage drinking has been out of control for some time and it seems to be getting worse. Every weekend brings more mayhem, with hooliganism, vandalism, litter, and cars and refuse bins set on fire etc. Something drastic has to be done, as some parents are allowing their kids to freely roam the streets at night, causing disturbance and distress to law-abiding citizens.

Unlike Shatter’s genuine concerns, Danny Healy-Rae’s objection to the scheme is contemptible.

…Kilgarvan publican Mr Healy-Rae said it was “a sting operation” against already beleaguered publicans.

“You are going to use young people to carry out a sting operation on poor publicans. It’s a shambolic attempt to put further pressure on publicans – to criminalise the publican by trying to deliberately fool them.”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0925/1224279657537.html

Healy-Rae appears to care only for the ‘poor publicans’; not a word about the welfare of the young volunteers. The publicans are already criminals if they are selling to underage drinkers.

Another aspect that needs to be dealt with is the fact that a lot of the alcohol is being bought legally by older teenagers etc. and sold to the younger ones for a small profit. Are there any solutions to this?

Biggins

I'm sure the teens used, will be well watched by at least two Gardi outside during any sting.
Whats more the teens used probably would not be doing the sting in their own home-town or county area to be sure.

Executive Steve

I'm as much of a Healy-Rae fan as I am a fan of the Spectator, this article is well worth a read though.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/essays/all/6273373/drunk-and-orderly.thtml