Hidden Money, and a Dropped Clause

The Raven.

Backard_Pell wrote: »

have a good read of this thread on Politics.ie It implicates Seanie Fitz (endorsed by the Dept of Finance) with the embezzlement of money into bank accounts in Austria... such a thing to be accusing people of doing!

Mr.Micro wrote: »

So he could have salted away a few Euro then since the depositors names are not given out.

The thread makes jolly interesting reading and hints to me that there is major political motivation behind all this in keeping the whole murky affair under wraps as to who got loans and whatever.

I agree. This is an extraordinary piece of information that has come to light, and I think it deserves to be discussed in the Politics forum together with other hidden loans and deposits. While these are probably mostly related to Anglo Irish, there must be lots more. The Irish taxpayer needs to be made aware of this and not be fooled by the spin delivered daily by this government.

The curious tale of Anglo Irish Bank and its Austrian deposits

Sean FitzPatrick’s decision to offload an Austrian private banking subsidiary in 2008 means the identities of its customers remain shrouded in secrecy.

Anyone who watched the RTE documentary Freefall last week was left in no doubt that Sean FitzPatrick’s Anglo Irish Bank was insolvent by September 29, 2008 due to a lack of access to bank funding and a flight of depositors.

So why, if Anglo Irish Bank was so desperate for cash, did FitzPatrick, its then chairman, take the curious decision at that time to sell his Austrian private bank, which had long been an important source of deposits for him?

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2010/09/12/story51585.asp

Another sinister aspect is the following proposed Amendment to the Anglo Irish Bank Corporation Bill 2009, which got changed from this:

10.—(1) Where €5,000,000 or more is owing to Anglo Irish Bank or a subsidiary or subsidiary undertaking of Anglo Irish Bank in respect of a financial obligation of a depositor in Anglo Irish Bank, the depositor may not, without the express written consent of Anglo Irish Bank—

(a) reduce the deposit (whether held on trust or otherwise) below the amount
owing in respect of the financial obligation, or

(b) if at the commencement of this Act the deposit is less than the amount
owing to Anglo Irish Bank or the subsidiary or subsidiary undertaking
under the obligation, reduce the deposit at all.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/0109/b0109d-dcn.pdf

to this (at the Committee stage):

10.—(1) Where €20,000,000 or more is owing to Anglo Irish Bank or a subsidiary
or subsidiary undertaking of Anglo Irish Bank in respect of a financial obligation of
a depositor in Anglo Irish Bank, the depositor may not, without the express written
consent of Anglo Irish Bank—

(a) reduce the deposit (whether held on trust or otherwise) below the amount
owing in respect of the financial obligation, or

(b) if at the commencement of this Act the deposit is less than the amount
owing to Anglo Irish Bank or the subsidiary or subsidiary undertaking
under the obligation, reduce the deposit at all.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2009/0109/b0109d-dcn1.pdf

However, this clause doesn't show in the Act, as it has been dropped.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2009/a0109.pdf

The Irish Labour Party today criticised the government for changing the proposed legislation to nationalise the Anglo Irish Bank. A clause relating to the withdrawal of money by customers who owe a lot of money and have more than €20m on deposit is being dropped.

The Fianna Fáil-led coalition had planned to restrict customers with deposits of more than €20m from withdrawing money if their debts were higher than that figure. Labour is questioning whether developers and businessmen lobbied against the move.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/19/anglo-irish-bank-resignations

Brian Lenihan has a lot of explaining to do to the Irish taxpayers!

thebaldsoprano

From this article linked to in the P.ie thread:

Well, the Valartis annual report reveals that the Austrian operation manages about 1.6 billion Swiss francs (€1.25 billion) for about 4,000 private banking clients.

Those clients can now remain very private indeed, far away from the scrutiny of the Irish state which stepped in and nationalised Anglo Irish Bank in January 2 009 in the wake of revelations about FitzPatrick concealing large loans from his shareholders.

One of the big advantages of having money on deposit with an Austrian bank is that the identity of depositors cannot be disclosed to the authorities, as Austria enjoys certain derogations from the EU Savings Directive. This was and remains a key attraction for those who deposit funds in Austria. Valartis has indicated that it will continue to vindicate those privacy rights.

That could prove very convenient if someone owed Anglo a lot of money and had, say, 20 million or so on deposit that they wanted to move.

AlekSmart

Brian Lenihan has a lot of explaining to do to the Irish taxpayers!

Ah come on lads...does anybody really believe Brian Lenihan gives a rats-ass about the Irish Taxpayer ?

Mr Lenihans prime concern is the maintenance of good order and discipline amongst the friendly,but nervous,Bankers who participated in that fateful late-night meeting in 2008

The alterations to the draft of the Bill, as pointed out by The Raven are crystal clear in their intent...criminally crystal clear and they have nothing to do with placating the sodding Irish Taxpayer.

One of the big advantages of having money on deposit with an Austrian bank is that the identity of depositors cannot be disclosed to the authorities, as Austria enjoys certain derogations from the EU Savings Directive. This was and remains a key attraction for those who deposit funds in Austria. Valartis has indicated that it will continue to vindicate those privacy rights.

More like Valartis has told the Irish Media to fluich right off if it thinks it`s going to get any info on poor little €188 per week Seanie from them....:mad:

Mind you,it means we (The Irish State) can tell the EU to sod-off if it starts whining about our low Corporation Tax rate...we`ll ditch it as soon as the Austrians give up their oul financial sins too...good deal there,yes ?

The Raven.

It all looks highly suspicious. ‘The sale of Anglo’s Austrian business was completed on December 19, 2008, the day after FitzPatrick resigned as chairman after his dodgy loan dealing had been uncovered.’

I don’t understand these figures:

According to Anglo Irish Bank’s 2009 annual report:

‘the sale of Anglo’s Austrian private banking business resulted in the loss of €600 million in retail deposits.’

FitzPatrick /Anglo Irish Bank sold Anglo’s Austrian bank for €141million.

Made a profit of €49 million

FitzPatrick/Anglo Irish provided Valartis with a €24 million loan to buy the bank.

The question is: why was FitzPatrick so eager to sell the Austrian Bank, with a €600 million deposit book, at a time when the Anglo Irish Bank was in such a bad state?

I would be very surprising if the clients of the Austrian bank didn't include Irish depositors (FitzPatrick and associates) with huge loans to Anglo and/or other Irish banks, apart from those already uncovered. If so, it is appalling to think that their identity and details of loans ‘cannot be disclosed to the authorities’ or the Irish taxpayers.

The Raven.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Ah come on lads...does anybody really believe Brian Lenihan gives a rats-ass about the Irish Taxpayer ?

No. Not for a minute.

Mr Lenihans prime concern is the maintenance of good order and discipline amongst the friendly,but nervous,Bankers who participated in that fateful late-night meeting in 2008

+1

The alterations to the draft of the Bill, as pointed out by The Raven are crystal clear in their intent...criminally crystal clear and they have nothing to do with placating the sodding Irish Taxpayer.

Dropping the amendment was appalling. There is an online account of the debate. I didn’t have time to read all of it as yet.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20090120.xml&Page=1&Ex=593#N593

More like Valartis has told the Irish Media to fluich right off if it thinks it`s going to get any info on poor little €188 per week Seanie from them....

Well Valartis seemed to have had FitzPatrick over a barrel as he was desperate to sell. Valartis got a pretty good bargain. I'm sure he cares deeply for Seanie :rolleyes:!

Mind you,it means we (The Irish State) can tell the EU to sod-off if it starts whining about our low Corporation Tax rate...we`ll ditch it as soon as the Austrians give up their oul financial sins too...good deal there,yes ?

That would be handy, if it would work .