High Court decides against pupils who wished to complete studies in Dublin

caseyann

The High Court has made a ruling against four Leaving Cert students who have taken a case against the HSE over their removal from Dublin schools to Galway.

They sought a High Court injunction requiring the HSE to put in place a financial scheme that would allow the teenagers return to their former schools to complete the Leaving Cert cycle.

Ok i spotted this today and couldnt believe it,all fair enough they shouldnt have been moved from their schools.But most people would just get on with it.
But is it right?
Is it inhumane?
When stated (Felix McEnroy for the HSE opposed the application arguing the girls were now adults and no longer in care and that what was being sought for them were private choices based on public funds.)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/high-court-decides-against-pupils-who-wished-to-complete-studies-in-dublin-474931.html


Personally i think it is wrong they can go this far and take out court injunctions and waste tax payers money and the courts with this.

He said his function was to apply the law, and not to impose social and humanitarian policy.

strobe

caseyann wrote: »

The High Court has made a ruling against four Leaving Cert students who have taken a case against the HSE over their removal from Dublin schools to Galway.

They sought a High Court injunction requiring the HSE to put in place a financial scheme that would allow the teenagers return to their former schools to complete the Leaving Cert cycle.

Ok i spotted this today and couldnt believe it,all fair enough they shouldnt have been moved from their schools.But most people would just get on with it.
But is it right?
Is it inhumane?
When stated (Felix McEnroy for the HSE opposed the application arguing the girls were now adults and no longer in care and that what was being sought for them were private choices based on public funds.)

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/high-court-decides-against-pupils-who-wished-to-complete-studies-in-dublin-474931.html


Personally i think it is wrong they can go this far and take out court injunctions and waste tax payers money and the courts with this.

He said his function was to apply the law, and not to impose social and humanitarian policy.

Those pesky Africans again CaseyAnn? Really?

ILA

These threads bring a proud tear to my eye, I remember reading Boards some years ago and it was impossible to raise an issue about immigration and there certainly wasn't any posters who'd come out and publicly support it.

It's really great to see how sensibilities on Boards have evolved and that there are now plenty of people who are willing to voice their views on the country's flawed immigration policy which glorifies and rewards fraudulent claims with bucketfuls of taxpayer's money.

Good to see that the Courts are reacting sensibly in this case, and that all is not lost for justice in Ireland.

murphaph

I know that even a "cheap" High Court injunction proceeding will cost the order of €20k. I take it these students didn't put the hand in the pocket themselves for this action and it'll be John Q Taxpayer who foots the bill for this frivbolous action! Kids in the most settled homes often have to uproot and complete their studies in a different school...it's called.....LIFE!

amcalester

I think people are looking at this from the wrong perspective, this case should save taxpayers money as it sets a precedent. In future decisions can be made much quicker and cheaper by referring to this decision.

Cakes.

Are asylum seekers not suppose to seek asylum in the first country they come to and there are no flights to Ireland from Africa apart from to Morocco and Tunisia..

Should they not seek asylum in whatever country they came to first ?

desertcircus

I've always thought that rule about applying in the first country you arrive in was grossly unfair. Whatever African countries they passed through are most likely almost as poor as their country of origin, so why should they have to meet the bill for housing refugees when we can afford it far more easily?

Incidentally, I think they're right on the money in the claim that it wouldn't be done to Irish kids - I'd be very surprised if, say, children in care were moved to the other side of the country to save money in the middle of their schooling against the express recommendation of their teachers. The vast majority of Irish families wouldn't dream of moving their children between the start of fifth year and the end of sixth; it's pretty unfair to expect them to do it for the sake of saving a few quid a week, not to mention the impact it might have on their future productivity as members of Irish society.

Cakes.

But they do not flee a country because of the poverty there. Asylum Seekers flee from things that could harm them - being poor does not count as a harm.

johnnyskeleton

Bit mad of the reception agency to move them like that.

Equally though, it's not like they are sitting the leaving cert in a few weeks - they are likely just starting/just started sixth year and the change shouldn't be that big.

Nodin

Cakesofrice wrote: »

Are asylum seekers not suppose to seek asylum in the first country they come to and there are no flights to Ireland from Africa apart from to Morocco and Tunisia..

Should they not seek asylum in whatever country they came to first ?

The Dublin Regulation - READ BEFORE DISCUSSING ASYLUM IN IRELAND

There has been allot of misinformation regarding the Dublin Regulation, particularly regarding the onus on an asylum seeker to apply at the first member state they enter.

PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59465073&postcount=3

Callan57

Africa to Ireland no problem .... Dublin to Galway big problem ?????

ILA

desertcircus wrote: »

I've always thought that rule about applying in the first country you arrive in was grossly unfair. Whatever African countries they passed through are most likely almost as poor as their country of origin, so why should they have to meet the bill for housing refugees when we can afford it far more easily?

Incidentally, I think they're right on the money in the claim that it wouldn't be done to Irish kids - I'd be very surprised if, say, children in care were moved to the other side of the country to save money in the middle of their schooling against the express recommendation of their teachers. The vast majority of Irish families wouldn't dream of moving their children between the start of fifth year and the end of sixth; it's pretty unfair to expect them to do it for the sake of saving a few quid a week, not to mention the impact it might have on their future productivity as members of Irish society.

Good one. Now pull the other one.

Scofflaw

As a couple of posters have pointed out, please be aware that misinterpretation of the Dublin Regulation on asylum seekers is an automatic banning offence in this forum. The Regulation is clear, and is stickied in the Forum Charter (which of course people have read) - familiarise yourselves with it before starting in on what "first country" means.

moderately,
Scofflaw

caseyann

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Bit mad of the reception agency to move them like that.

Equally though, it's not like they are sitting the leaving cert in a few weeks - they are likely just starting/just started sixth year and the change shouldn't be that big.

I agree with you,Although unfair they are not sitting the leaving until next June,the curriculum is the same in every school.


And this hogwash about Irish kids not been moved if in care once they hit 18 and if sitting a leaving cert and same circumstances,they would be moved.And they would get on with it.No high court injunctions.
They move Irish kids from school to school all over the country who are in care.
I know a few kids worked with them in care,moved from pillar to post.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0924/1224279587860.html?via=rel

However the HSE had clear procedures in place for the transition of “aged out” minors from the care system. He added that in the current climate of cutbacks, the HSE had to do the best it could with what it had.

AlekSmart

Callan57 (Kilkenny ?) posted ....

Africa to Ireland no problem .... Dublin to Galway big problem ?????

Well said,that person !

So in 2008,as all about us was falling asunder,we still had no ability to ensure the integrity of our legal frontiers....so much for all the monies we got from the "Common Market".

From the Irish Times article.....

The four girls, who arrived in Ireland from Africa in 2008 as unaccompanied minors,

The relevant questions in my mind are,did they travel as a quartet ?
What was the point of origin of their flight/sailing ?
What evidence is there of their actual age ?

In the recent past there appears to be quite a new subsidiary industry in place to facilitate the "unaccompanied minor"

For all their faults,one must praise Ryanair for it`s policy on the issue which guarantees it will never be corporately proscuted for bringing such people into Ireland or anywhere else.

However,as the still ongoing Pamela Izevbekhai case demonstrates,as long as we have a suitably opportunistic Legal Proffession allied to a somewhat less than self-confident Judiciary then this type of frivolous case will continue to drain what little resources we possess.....:rolleyes:

All Credit to Barry White for delivering a well reasoned and sensible judgement in this case...although doubtless this one will take legs and run all the way to Europe in the wake of Pamela`s....:rolleyes:

opo

ILA wrote: »

These threads bring a proud tear to my eye, I remember reading Boards some years ago and it was impossible to raise an issue about immigration and there certainly wasn't any posters who'd come out and publicly support it.

+100

Not that there isn't the occasional relic of the individuals mindset, nor are they discouraged from pseudo-modding these threads.

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

I agree with you,Although unfair they are not sitting the leaving until next June,the curriculum is the same in every school..

And moving would have of course no effect on them, at all?

caseyann wrote: »

And this hogwash about Irish kids not been moved if in care once they hit 18 and if sitting a leaving cert and same circumstances,they would be moved.And they would get on with it.No high court injunctions.
They move Irish kids from school to school all over the country who are in care...

You've a source to back that up?

caseyann wrote: »

I know a few kids worked with them in care,moved from pillar to post....

In between your time "knowing" Nigerians, Asylum seekers, asylum seekers in mosney, eastern europeans etc and so on.....

AlekSmart wrote:

The relevant questions in my mind are,did they travel as a quartet ?
What was the point of origin of their flight/sailing ?
What evidence is there of their actual age ?....

....and thats relevant to the thread how....?

murphaph

Nodin wrote: »

And moving would have of course no effect on them, at all?

are you suggesting that kids (in care or otherwise) be put into some sort of hermetically sealed bubble which protects them from the real world outside?

Children have to learn to deal with the hard knocks of life like the rest of us FFS.

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

And moving would have of course no effect on them, at all?



You've a source to back that up?



In between your time "knowing" Nigerians, Asylum seekers, asylum seekers in mosney, eastern europeans etc and so on.....





....and thats relevant to the thread how....?

It will so what,they will get over it.If schooling is that important to them they will still be able to sit exams.They still have accommodation and still getting free food clothes school books etc....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2010/0330/1224267338846.html

I never really had a home growing up,” says Barbara, who was taken into care when she was nine years old and regularly moved around different foster families and residential care homes during her teens.

What can i say i know loads of people,my friendship range spanned all over since i was a kid.Just because you know no one not my fault.:D
Do you have any people you know who are asylum seekers etcc....

The last part dont know why my name is on it i didnt write that:rolleyes:


Children as young as 12, Ms Kane said, were being advised they could no longer stay in placements because the HSE has no money, and placements sometimes ended overnight.

She said teenagers from age 16 were being moved from long term placements into bed and breakfasts.

http://www.examiner.ie/world/sncwmhidkf/

Nodin

murphaph wrote: »

are you suggesting that kids (in care or otherwise) be put into some sort of hermetically sealed bubble which protects them from the real world outside?

Children have to learn to deal with the hard knocks of life like the rest of us FFS.

There'll be enough unavoidable "hard knocks" for them to learn from, without having a few unnessecary ones thrown at them, particularily if it interrupts their education in a detrimental fashion.

Furthermore, having arrived here on their own from Africa, I'd imagine they've a better idea of what encompasses the harsh vagaries of life than most Irish adults.

Nodin

caseyann wrote: »

It will so what,they will get over it.If schooling is that important to them they will still be able to sit exams.They still have accommodation and still getting free food clothes school books etc....

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2010/0330/1224267338846.html

Well done. From your linked article above -

“I never really had a home growing up,” says Barbara, who was taken into care when she was nine years old and regularly moved around different foster families and residential care homes during her teens.
“You are not settled. You feel different to other children in school. You feel like an alien because you know they have families. Then when you turn 18 and you get out, it’s really difficult,” she says.
“I was very emotional and angry. I dropped out of college, went out drinking and ended up homeless,” she says.
Within a year of leaving her care home, Barbara was sleeping rough on the ground floor of a city centre apartment block. She also stayed in an emergency hostel where, she says, “drugs were handed around like smarties”.

A good argument to avoid moving children around, by the looks of things.

caseyann wrote: »

What can i say i know loads of people,
.........

The point is that anecdotes are unverifiable, and a shaky basis to make a point in serious discussion.

caseyann wrote: »

The last part dont know why my name is on it i didnt write that

.

My apologies - an error on my part - I will amend the post.

murphaph

Nodin wrote: »

There'll be enough unavoidable "hard knocks" for them to learn from, without having a few unnessecary ones thrown at them, particularily if it interrupts their education in a detrimental fashion.

It's only unnecessary in your opinion, of course. Ireland, in case you hadn't noticed, is flat broke. Things like this are going to be commonplace.

Nodin wrote: »

Furthermore, having arrived here on their own from Africa, I'd imagine they've a better idea of what encompasses the harsh vagaries of life than most Irish adults.

...so moving from Dublin to Galway a good year or more before they sit their leaving cert should be no big deal to them, yeah?

Surely to someone who has come from a war torn country etc. the "hassle" of moving school is nothing. One would think.

FreudianSlippers

I think this decision was correct and the learned Judge Barry White was absolutely correct in saying that his function was to apply the law and not to impose social and humanitarian policy.

Nodin

murphaph wrote: »

It's only unnecessary in your opinion, of course.
.

I would have thought providing a stable enviroment for students and children would have been "nessecary" in most peoples opinion.

murphaph wrote: »

...so moving from Dublin to Galway a good year or more before they sit their leaving cert should be no big deal to them, yeah?
Surely to someone who has come from a war torn country etc. the "hassle" of moving school is nothing. One would think.

...more likely yet another disturbance in a long line of same.

AlekSmart

Nodin posted........

.and thats relevant to the thread how....?

Well I would consider it relevant in the sense of this State attempting to verify any of their accounts,either individually or as a group before stumping up to fund their education ?

Nodin also posted...

.The point is that anecdotes are unverifiable, and a shaky basis to make a point in serious discussion.

This is certainly pure true indeed,yet we (The Irish State) appear to be required to accept a rather large amount of unverifiable anecdotal accounts presented as "evidence" in a substantial number of asylum applications.........

Furthermore, having arrived here on their own from Africa, I'd imagine they've a better idea of what encompasses the harsh vagaries of life than most Irish adults.

Notwithstanding the earlier mod references to the Dublin Convention,I`d be quite surprised if the quartet in question here had made such a voyage :rolleyes:

This concept of the Irish State somehow having a responsibility for saving large tracts of Africa and it`s population appears firmly rooted in the old time "Penny for the Black Babies" approach and the need to send Irish Missionaries throughout the continent to convert the savages to christian behaviour...

As for an understanding of the Harsh Vagaries of Irish life,the evidence coming from cases such as Pamela Izevbekhai`s point towards many African asylum applications being made more from a Business development perspective that a desire to escape poverty or oppression.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Nodin posted........

Well I would consider it relevant in the sense of this State attempting to verify any of their accounts,either individually or as a group before stumping up to fund their education ?.

...theres been no suggestion that such checks haven't been made.

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is certainly pure true indeed,yet we (The Irish State) appear to be required to accept a rather large amount of unverifiable anecdotal accounts presented as "evidence" in a substantial number of asylum applications.........
.

Really? Because we have one of the highest rejection rates in Europe. That would rather undermine the idea that one can waltz in with a story.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Notwithstanding the earlier mod references to the Dublin Convention,I`d be quite surprised if the quartet in question here had made such a voyage :rolleyes:.

....wild speculation which again goes outside the parameters of the thread.

AlekSmart wrote: »

This concept of the Irish State somehow having a responsibility for saving large tracts of Africa and it`s population appears firmly rooted in the old time "Penny for the Black Babies" approach and the need to send Irish Missionaries throughout the continent to convert the savages to christian behaviour....

You are aware of our international obligations re asylum seekers....?

AlekSmart wrote: »

As for an understanding of the Harsh Vagaries of Irish life,the evidence coming from cases such as Pamela Izevbekhai`s point towards many African asylum applications being made more from a Business development perspective that a desire to escape poverty or oppression.

And again, more blather that has nothing to do with the topic in question.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

...Really? Because we have one of the highest rejection rates in Europe. That would rather undermine the idea that one can waltz in with a story..

Au contraire - the rejection rates underpin the fact that so many do waltz in with nothing more than a story.

AlekSmart

Nodin posted...

Really? Because we have one of the highest rejection rates in Europe. That would rather undermine the idea that one can waltz in with a story.

It`s one thing having a high rejection rate,it`s another being able to take appropriate action subsequent to that...as is evidenced by the numbers of rejected who then go walkabout or otherwise attempt to frustrate the process.

Wild speculation which again goes outside the parameters of the thread.

I don`t see it as any wilder or partameter limited than infering that they arrived direct from Africa.

You are aware of our international obligations re asylum seekers....?

I am,and am of the opinion that we have performed well above our weight in this regard,to the extent of now being seen as a location of preference for large numbers of opportunist asylum applicant "professionals".

And again, more blather that has nothing to do with the topic in question.

That`s ok,I`m cool with whatever descriptor you choose to apply,I`m simply offering an alternative to your considered opinion * ...

Furthermore, having arrived here on their own from Africa, I'd imagine they've a better idea of what encompasses the harsh vagaries of life than most Irish adults.

Perhaps you`re correct and it really is best left in the realms of imagination.

(One is Opinion..The other is Blather ? ) :rolleyes:

southsiderosie

Nodin wrote: »

Well done. From your linked article above -

Quote:
“I never really had a home growing up,” says Barbara, who was taken into care when she was nine years old and regularly moved around different foster families and residential care homes during her teens.
“You are not settled. You feel different to other children in school. You feel like an alien because you know they have families. Then when you turn 18 and you get out, it’s really difficult,” she says.
“I was very emotional and angry. I dropped out of college, went out drinking and ended up homeless,” she says.
Within a year of leaving her care home, Barbara was sleeping rough on the ground floor of a city centre apartment block. She also stayed in an emergency hostel where, she says, “drugs were handed around like smarties”.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: a lot of the so-called "problems" with immigration are just symptoms of long-standing underlying social issues in Ireland in general that existed before immigrants came into the picture. The HSE is a perfect example: they screw things up with Irish foster kids all the time, and then throw them to the wolves the minute they age out of the system. The fact that it happened with immigrant children isn't surprising; the only thing different in this case is the fact that the kids pushed back against what is generally a screwed-up system.

murphaph wrote: »

are you suggesting that kids (in care or otherwise) be put into some sort of hermetically sealed bubble which protects them from the real world outside?

Children have to learn to deal with the hard knocks of life like the rest of us FFS.

The fact that kids are put into state care in the first place means that they have probably experienced more hard knocks in their brief lives than the rest of us will experience in a lifetime. I've read some cold-blooded comments on boards, but this takes the cake.

murphaph

Nodin wrote: »

I would have thought providing a stable enviroment for students and children would have been "nessecary" in most peoples opinion.

Quick question for you so I can evaluate where you're coming from:
Do you believe that parents of "middle class" Irish kids who are forced (perhaps by the need to find work) to up sticks and move to another part of the country/continent/world are wrong? Should parents be prevented from moving their kids to another school?

What about when parents divorce or separate (like mine did when I was 15) and a kid has to move home? So, my point is that sometimes such moves are necessary. It's just fecking LIFE!

AlekSmart

SouthsideRosie posted....

The fact that it happened with immigrant children isn't surprising; the only thing different in this case is the fact that the kids pushed back against what is generally a screwed-up system.

Indeed and perhaps the "children" concerned in this case were doubly fortunate to have access to Legal Advisors prepared and funded to take their case to the level it attained.

However,as another poster noted,it is a good thing to have the ruling now set down and in precedent.

Nodin

murphaph wrote: »

Quick question for you so I can evaluate where you're coming from:
Do you believe that parents of "middle class" Irish kids who are forced (perhaps by the need to find work) to up sticks and move to another part of the country/continent/world are wrong? Should parents be prevented from moving their kids to another school?

What about when parents divorce or separate (like mine did when I was 15) and a kid has to move home? So, my point is that sometimes such moves are necessary. It's just fecking LIFE!

But this move isn't nessecary......so no, its not feckin life.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

Nodin posted...........? ) :rolleyes:

If you want to start a thread entitled "they're all scam artists" please feel free to do so.

opo

Nodin wrote: »

I would have thought providing a stable enviroment for students and children would have been "nessecary" in most peoples opinion.

Does that also apply to Africans who might consider planting their childern in a country to claim asylum in extremely dubious circumstances?

AlekSmart

Nodin posted....

If you want to start a thread entitled "they're all scam artists" please feel free to do so.

No I think I`ll pass on your suggestion Nodin,although I suppose you could modify it a tad,as in,"How many are actually scam-artists ?"....That might be a runner right `nuff.

caseyann

Nodin wrote: »

Well done. From your linked article above -



A good argument to avoid moving children around, by the looks of things.



The point is that anecdotes are unverifiable, and a shaky basis to make a point in serious discussion.




My apologies - an error on my part - I will amend the post.

Who said it was right for any child to be uprooted and moved around?
Sorry they are no kids they are adults.And as i showed, Barbara was out on her own at 18 and moved around from pillar to post since a young age.(as you asked to show)
They are old enough to deal with a move.
Its done was no other way around it like everyone else in the country in care has to put up with.

p.s thanks

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

Who said it was right for any child to be uprooted and moved around?
Sorry they are no kids they are adults.And as i showed, Barbara was out on her own at 18 and moved around from pillar to post since a young age.(as you asked to show)
They are old enough to deal with a move.
Its done was no other way around it like everyone else in the country in care has to put up with.

p.s thanks

I may be reading that incorrectly, but I'm assuming you're saying that they were treated like anyone else in state care that gets moved around?

If that's what you're saying, isn't that part of the problem?

I wish instead of the public debate being around asylum seekers, it was around the way older kids in state care are treated.

caseyann

southsiderosie wrote: »

I may be reading that incorrectly, but I'm assuming you're saying that they were treated like anyone else in state care that gets moved around?

If that's what you're saying, isn't that part of the problem?

I wish instead of the public debate being around asylum seekers, it was around the way older kids in state care are treated.

Yes they have no choice and no one has so shut up and be happy with what they got.

Yous made about asylum seekers.
I made it about stupid court injunctions that people think they are beholden to by every one else.
I never even mentioned nationality.Its stupid an 18 year old of any nationality would expect preferential treatment.
Not like they are getting dumped out on streets at 12 or 13 or left to fend for themselves.They still get free room and food and books and free education and clothes.

FreudianSlippers

caseyann wrote: »

I made it about stupid court injunctions that people think they are beholden to by every one else.

What? This makes zero sense. What are you on about?

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

Yes they have no choice and no one has so shut up and be happy with what you got.

Yous made about asylum seekers.
I made it about stupid court injunctions that people think they are beholden to by every one else.
I never even mentioned nationality.Its stupid an 18 year old of any nationality would expect preferential treatment.
Not like they are getting dumped out on streets at 12 or 13 or left to fend for themselves.They still get free room and food and books and free education and clothes.

The thread is about students who are asylum seekers.

I think it's reasonable for an 18-year old to want to stay in one place until they have completed their exams. Certainly in divorce cases (which were raised earlier), older children may opt to stay with one parent so they will not have to change schools. And I personally know of cases where parents had to move for work, and the children stayed with a relative so they could finish the school year where they started it, or one parent started working in a different city and the other stayed behind with the kids so they could finish school. In most families, parents make a reasonable effort to keep the school year as free from disruption as possible, and the state should do the same. Not to mention the fact that most children are put into state care because they do not have stability at home; the least the state can do is guarantee stability until they have finished school/leaving cert - regardless of immigration status.

Frankly I think the whole "shut up and be happy with what you get" is why Irish politics are so screwed up. This is how the political leaders treat the population and why you are being royally ****ed up the arse by the government right now - because they know you will shut up and take it.

caseyann

OisinT wrote: »

What? This makes zero sense. What are you on about?

Break it down.They think they that everyone is beholden to them,and they can take out stupid court cases against the very people who have been feeding them clothing them and educating them.Wasting tax payers money over a nil point for these who arent even minors anymore.

FreudianSlippers

caseyann wrote: »

Break it down.They think they that everyone is beholden to them,and they can take out stupid court cases against the very people who have been feeding them clothing them and educating them.Wasting tax payers money over a nil point for these who arent even minors anymore.

I understand the "social" point you're trying to make, but your legal reasoning is incorrect. These people had locus standi to apply for an injunction. That injunction was not granted. End of story.

caseyann

OisinT wrote: »

I understand the "social" point you're trying to make, but your legal reasoning is incorrect. These people had locus standi to apply for an injunction. That injunction was not granted. End of story.

Luckily not entertained.P.s thanks sorry i did the Willy nilly sentence.:o



Someone up high is making a mark and not afraid of the use of if they were Irish it wouldnt happen to them,when in actual fact it would.Again with the segregation.People making it about asylum seekers when they complain not been treated the same as everyone else in the country then they are and the do gooder brigade make them split off about asylum seekers,the very ones who complain about them been treated differently.

southsiderosie

caseyann wrote: »

Luckily not entertained.P.s thanks sorry i did the Willy nilly sentence.:o



Someone up high is making a mark and not afraid of the use of if they were Irish it wouldnt happen to them,when in actual fact it would.Again with the segregation.People making it about asylum seekers when they complain not been treated the same as everyone else in the country then they are and the do gooder brigade make them split off about asylum seekers,the very ones who complain about them been treated differently.

Jesus Christ, reading your posts and trying to figure out what you are trying to say makes my head hurt. Punctuation and grammar are your friends.

You seem to be saying two things: they should get what everyone else gets, and they should be happy with what it is that they do get.

I am saying that what everyone gets is bad, and that nobody should be happy with it. The fact that someone was unhappy enough about it to sue does not make them ingrates, it makes them pretty rational, given the state of the HSE. I suspect that if the lawsuit was filed by Irish kids who had aged out, rather than asylum seekers, that the public would have reacted differently. Then again, based on some of the comments in this thread, maybe not.

Many posters in this thread (and in pretty much every other thread involving asylum seekers) harp on the fact that people are ungrateful, blah, blah, but as a general rule, most immigrants operate under a "be a good guest" policy, and keep their complaints amongst themselves. As a foreigner, I can attest to this personally.:p That said, I actually think this is a bad thing. I believe that immigrants often serve as "miners canaries" for society at large: they are more vulnerable to the actions of the state, so when things go rotten for them, it's often the sign of a larger problem. But unfortunately the response is often "if you don't like it them go home", rather than "hm, why DOES the HSE lose track of so many children it its care", or "hm, why does it make sense to move people around just as they are finishing school"?

This isn't to say that people don't try to take advantage of the system. I have no idea how these girls ended up in Ireland, or how legitimate their asylum claims are. But I think this case raises broader issues for how Ireland deals with children in state care and the immigration/bogus asylum seeker bug-a-boo is a distraction.

FreudianSlippers

southsiderosie wrote: »

This isn't to say that people don't try to take advantage of the system. I have no idea how these girls ended up in Ireland, or how legitimate their asylum claims are. But I think this case raises broader issues for how Ireland deals with children in state care and the immigration/bogus asylum seeker bug-a-boo is a distraction.

This is it. It has nothing to do with whether they are immigrants or not. What is important here is the question of dealing with children in state care.