The Wall St Journal on men entering (and winning) women's races

nerraw1111

Interesting article.

Very odd behaviour.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704652104575494281497754618.html

"Jonathan Mederos set a personal record in Disney's Princess Half Marathon last year, winning first place with a time of 1:16:17.

The reception he got was far from his personal best, though. "When I crossed the finish line, the announcers were silent, and I got downcast looks from the crowd," says Mr. Mederos, a 25-year-old high-school philosophy teacher in Miami."

woody1

strange one surely.. if it was womens only how could he enter, and why wasnt he stopped at the beginning and why did they give him first place...

on a seperate issue why are there womens only races... there are no mens only races that i know of... although im probabyl gonna find out now that there are

gerard65

woody1 wrote: »

strange one surely.. if it was womens only how could he enter, and why wasnt he stopped at the beginning and why did they give him first place...

on a seperate issue why are there womens only races... there are no mens only races that i know of... although im probabyl gonna find out now that there are

The ARC mens mini marathon in the Phoenix Park in May.

cwgatling

Odd behaviour is right. Reminds me of Liveline after the Mini Marathon this year - guys ringing up whining that they didn't get a medal

woody1

i knew that would happen.....

huskerdu

Why would anyone, man or woman want to enter or win the "Disney Princess Half Marathon" ?

tunney

gerard65 wrote: »

The ARC mens mini marathon in the Phoenix Park in May.

Which loads of women do every year "to make a point".

Much like the women who run the mens distances in the XC "to make a point".

But fvck me if a man tries to make a point............ (or just dress up as a women with fake boobs)

donothoponpop

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704652104575494281497754618.html

"Ahead of its Oct. 2 inaugural half marathon, Run Like a Diva announced that finishers' medals will be awarded by bare-chested male firefighters. "We had four men signed up, but two dropped out when they heard about the firemen," says Mr. Pozo, the race organizer. ."

The day ARC mens mini marathon has finisher's medals awarded by bare-chested female nurses, is the day I sign up to empowerment.

rainbow kirby

huskerdu wrote: »

Why would anyone, man or woman want to enter or win the "Disney Princess Half Marathon" ?

I'd ask myself the same question. It sounds like an event aimed at 5 year old girls.

tunney wrote: »

Much like the women who run the mens distances in the XC "to make a point".

There *is* a point there though, there's no reason why the distances in XC shouldn't be equal. This isn't the 1950s where women could only race 2-3 miles at a time.

TheRoadRunner

rainbow kirby wrote: »

There *is* a point there though, there's no reason why the distances in XC shouldn't be equal. This isn't the 1950s where women could only race 2-3 miles at a time.

I don't think this is a case of men worrying about the poor weak women folk. If the girls want it changed they should do something about it. Personally I'd like XC distances shortened to current womens distances.

myflipflops

rainbow kirby wrote: »

There *is* a point there though, there's no reason why the distances in XC shouldn't be equal. This isn't the 1950s where women could only race 2-3 miles at a time.

I suspect part of the idea is to find a better middle point between middle distance and long distance athletes as opposed to indicate any lack of aerobic ability from women.

Another factor is that going through the age groups, women/girls run shorter distances to boys to encourage participation and the gap gets greater as the age groups go along. This is best shown by the fact that in Irish schools cross county, the senior girls run a SHORTER distance than the intermediate girls. The thought process is to get more participants but it must have an effect on female athletes as they go into the senior ranks and face a massice distance increase.

MrCreosote

It's typical Irish sexist Gombeenism.

"Let the girlies have their little run-around first, the real race starts later"

The course and distances should be the same, either by making female course longer or the male course shorter.

It's just like the 3sets vs 5 sets at the major tennis events- no reason for it at all.

ThisRegard

So it's not typical Irish then if it's happening all over the place, such as tennis as you point out.

The Womens Mini Marathon is one big contradiction isn't it, it's neither just women nor is it much of a marathon.

gerard65

MrCreosote wrote: »

It's typical Irish sexist Gombeenism.

"Let the girlies have their little run-around first, the real race starts later"

The course and distances should be the same, either by making female course longer or the male course shorter.

It's just like the 3sets vs 5 sets at the major tennis events- no reason for it at all.

The reason behind it is to encourage more women to compete. The thinking is women would shy away from the longer XC distances. Its not only 'Irish sexist Gombeenism', are the international races not shorter for women over XC?

myflipflops

gerard65 wrote: »

are the international races not shorter for women over XC?

They are at European and World cross champs anyway.

I'm not sure where "Irish sexist Gombeenism" comes into it. Considering our athletics success with Sonai, Catherina, Derval, Olive Loughnane, Gillian O'Sullivan etc, I think it's fair to say that our female athletes our not undermined and thought of as inferior.

MrCreosote

Okay fair enough- it's not just confined to Ireland.
But the overriding impression is always that women's sports are second-rate. Look at the response or lack of it to Katie Taylor's recent gold. The shorter courses just help to confirm that impression.

Why would they try to encourage "participation" anyway at an Elite event like the Cross Country champs?? If you're at that level I think there's a chance it's not your first race.

It's an easy thing to change- just make the courses the same, no big deal.

myflipflops

MrCreosote wrote: »

Okay fair enough- it's not just confined to Ireland.
But the overriding impression is always that women's sports are second-rate. Look at the response or lack of it to Katie Taylor's recent gold. The shorter courses just help to confirm that impression.

Why would they try to encourage "participation" anyway at an Elite event like the Cross Country champs?? If you're at that level I think there's a chance it's not your first race.

It's an easy thing to change- just make the courses the same, no big deal.

I see your point and I think it would be no big deal to run the same distances but again, I think the shorter courses at senior level come from the shorter ones at juvenile and junior level. It's simply a a continuity thing.

Comparing Katie Taylor isn't accurate. Womens boxing is a massively under developed (but growing) sport. In terms of prize money, distances and respect, female athletes are deemed equal to the men in every respect. There would be no difference between the reaction to a Derval O Rourke medal in London than to a David Gillick medal apart from possibly slightly more surprise at a medal from Gillick.

plodder

In the BHAA some women run the men's XC distances. There's no big deal about it. It's certainly not a case of others not being able to run the longer distance (as the road races are mixed anyway). I've always assumed it was about getting to the showers first and using up all the hot water :rolleyes:.

robinph

A justification I've heard on here before about the Women's Mini Marathon 10km is that they don't feel as welcome/ safe and are outnumbered in other races by men.

The growth results from an explosion in the number of female runners, who last year accounted for 53% of all U.S. road-race finishers, according to the research center Running USA.

Running is a unique sport where everyone gets to compete against every one in the same events, there were 40,000 people in the same race as Haile Gebrselassie at the weekend. No other sport can us mere mortals claim to have competed in the same event as the worlds best/ record holders/ etc. Other than races where you need a qualification time to take part, I see no reason for excluding certain people from a particular event based on anything about them.

RayCun

woody1 wrote: »

strange one surely.. if it was womens only how could he enter, and why wasnt he stopped at the beginning and why did they give him first place...

Because it's illegal to prevent men from entering. They can steer men away from the evnt by making everything pink, but can't ban them.

Entering to run with your OH, or for charity, or for the crack, or to meet lots of lycra-clad women... yeah sure, why not. But it seems that two of the guys interviewed entered because they couldn't win another race but they could win this, and that's both sad and assholish.

shels4ever

rainbow kirby wrote: »

I'd ask myself the same question. It sounds like an event aimed at 5 year old girls.



There *is* a point there though, there's no reason why the distances in XC shouldn't be equal. This isn't the 1950s where women could only race 2-3 miles at a time.

But the facts don't really back it up, I know women can run 4+ miles but when it comes to some XC races there tends to be a poor showing when the distance is longer,
Same in the school XC the Senior womes race was actually shorter then the inter race for a few years(may still be the case) this was because women/girls didnt enter the shorter race. But is it better to have 50 people running 2/3 miles to 30 running 5 ? I dont know....

robinph

shels4ever wrote: »

But the facts don't really back it up, I know women can run 4+ miles but when it comes to some XC races there tends to be a poor showing when the distance is longer,
Same in the school XC the Senior womes race was actually shorter then the inter race for a few years(may still be the case) this was because women/girls didnt enter the shorter race. But is it better to have 50 people running 2/3 miles to 30 running 5 ? I dont know....

These women really need to man up and just run the distance.

:eek:

I'l get my coat...

kennyb3

TheRoadRunner wrote: »

I don't think this is a case of men worrying about the poor weak women folk. If the girls want it changed they should do something about it. Personally I'd like XC distances shortened to current womens distances.

Personally I see this as the main point, surely if the girls actually wanted something done about it they could lobby the relevant organisations.

On the other of the coin women tennis players wanted to get paid equal to men but still only play 3 sets as opposed to 5. and on that bombshell i ll depart

kennyb3

MrCreosote wrote: »

But the overriding impression is always that women's sports are second-rate. Look at the response or lack of it to Katie Taylor's recent gold.

Not so sure thats a sex thing,look at nicolas roche finishing 7th overall in the vuelta - not even a mention on the rte news that night at 9. at least katie taylor got that although she deserves it more as she is a world champion. anyway my point is they are a minority sport - she gets as much coverage as other male irish boxers

Fi H

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who knew there was a Disney Princess Half Marathon!!!! This may be the race for me
Will ahve to check it out!! The excitement!

robinph

Buried in that article was the fact that the races allow men to enter because they are too cheap to defend themselves against a discrimination case. So men are perfectly entitled to enter, and win, the women only races in the US. They just may have to wear pink and get closer than intended to a topless fireman.

If it meant I could win a race I'd do it. I'd often be comparing my finishing position to the first woman anyway, so is that also wrong for me to be racing/ beating/ getting beaten by them in other events?

RayCun

Where are the bragging rights though?

"Yeah, my personal best is 78.32 - I set that the day I finished first in the Barbie Princess Women's Half Marathon. Here's my winner's medal - well, winner's sparkly wand, but it's basically the same thing. Podium photos? Er, no, there aren't any...?"

nerraw1111

robinph wrote: »

Buried in that article was the fact that the races allow men to enter because they are too cheap to defend themselves against a discrimination case. So men are perfectly entitled to enter, and win, the women only races in the US. They just may have to wear pink and get closer than intended to a topless fireman.

If it meant I could win a race I'd do it. I'd often be comparing my finishing position to the first woman anyway, so is that also wrong for me to be racing/ beating/ getting beaten by them in other events?

I don't think its the case that they're too cheap to defend a discrimination case. They just don't want the hassle of some idiot suing them for discrimination.

I find it odd that a bloke would want to 'win' a race so badly, that they simply find a race where there's no men to challenge them. That's not winning.

Sure you would be only fooling yourself

robinph

nerraw1111 wrote: »

Sure you would be only fooling yourself

I would be quite happy to race against the leading women, some races I'm good enough, a lot I'm nowhere near them. Certainly wouldn't be fooling anyone about being the best at anything, but racing people of a similar standard to yourself is what it's all about isn't it?

TFBubendorfer

RayCun wrote: »

But it seems that two of the guys interviewed entered because they couldn't win another race but they could win this, and that's both sad and assholish.

robinph wrote: »

If it meant I could win a race I'd do it. I'd often be comparing my finishing position to the first woman anyway, so is that also wrong for me to be racing/ beating/ getting beaten by them in other events?

Spot the slight difference in opinion ...

RayCun

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Spot the slight difference in opinion ...

The comparison that keeps coming to mind is the Spanish Special Olympics basketball team

BeepBeep67

One race is giving away feather boas and tiaras.

This would only encourage some blokes I know

nerraw1111

robinph wrote: »

I would be quite happy to race against the leading women, some races I'm good enough, a lot I'm nowhere near them. Certainly wouldn't be fooling anyone about being the best at anything, but racing people of a similar standard to yourself is what it's all about isn't it?

I see what you're saying about racing similar standards. I suppose if the races were divided into divisions based on standard, then yeah, it'd be great to win, regardless of sex.

But those lads entered the races purely to win the race.

TheRoadRunner

I'm seriously thinking of entering the womens mini marathon. I'd love to be the first Irish man to win it. Think of the acclaim and fame. I'd definitely make the front page of the hearld. I'm off to dig up a nurses costume I wore to a fancy dress party a few years back

The thought of 40000+ women moaning and giving out about me fills me with excitement.