Is a producer totally necessary?

galwaybabe

Hi lads. We're booking into a very nice studio very soon to put some more tracks down. I'm all confused about the producer end of things. Is it totally necessary to have one?

maccored

ive always found a producer will let you get on with playing your best, while he/she keeps the engineer in check, makes decisions that normally the rest of the band would argue about and generally gets things done properly, saves time and ultimately saves you money.

Seany

I wouldnt see a producer as 100% necessary but very important. Yes you can go into a recording studio and get good results without one but in my experience this depends entirely on the make up of the band.

Usually, drummers listen to the drums, guitarists to the guitars, etc so it is nice to have someone with an ear you trust to make decisions to shape the overall sound of the session.

Also a good producer may also have a creative input to what is being recorded and may also suggest certain sounds or tones which he/she feels add to the recording.

I have found that different producers also have different tecniques in recording which also might influence the engineer.

Best of luck with the session!

Seany

PMI

Depends on experience and what you want to get out of it....

A true producer (not some guy with a laptop, reaper making beats) will look at the song more objectively as he is an outsider and pull out the best from the band. He will allow the band to record their song but under his/her guidance to come up with the feel and sound of the finished product in conjunction with the engineer some guys infact most producers now have to able to do both.

It is always good to get an outsider onto your stuff after having a meeting and hearing what they think they can inject you will be able to decide if he or she is the one to take your songs to the next level.

sorry about punctuation but was typing to fast

ebaysellerrob

yes because it allows some one to hear the music and see whats the crap what needs to be cut and when more is needed in a songs decent songs normally are not a chorus and verse repeated 3 times with different lyrics.They will also help with pre production a few weeks before going into the studio and will know the sound your aiming for.they should also know when your vocalist has warmed up and has done THE take

Bluebirdstudios

Is a producer really necesscary ?
The simple answer is no but perhaps a better question - is the band ready to be produced.
Many bands are waiting for the producer to deliver the goods, the simply truth is the producer needs to be excited too, he or she has to have something they believe they can get their teeth into. Then the benefit of having a producer on board can be realised.
If you are considering getting a producer on board be as prepared as possible
Examples:

• Know the tempos that work best for your songs
• Make sure the songs are in an appropiate key - mainly for vocals
• Be able to communicate the theme,vibe or groove that your trying to achieve ( bring examples of influences or related tracks )
• Know your weaknesses and tell the producer , nothing worse than wasting 8 hours on a take that the musician is never going to get. Producer might have a simpler workaround.
• Get to talk to the producer before session begins always nice to know that you can relate to someone before the dreaded clock starts
• Let the producer know what equipment your using ( nothing worst than a band wanting to sound like LED Zep and arriving with Banjo's and ukuleles
• Ask the producers for references - peace of mind!
• Simple things like having lyric sheets and song notes for producer keep things moving

The list goes on ,maybe some or all above will will help. It has been my experience as a producer/engineer that simple things make or break sessions.
-Dec

krd

galwaybabe wrote: »

Hi lads. We're booking into a very nice studio very soon to put some more tracks down. I'm all confused about the producer end of things. Is it totally necessary to have one?

I've heard yere stuff. It might really be worth your while to get a producer if you can afford one.

You've done some stuff already - so go look at some CDs of similar stuff - the producers name you'll most likely never have heard of, but you'll notice, when you check the backs of a few CDs it's the same guys. They may be too busy or be out of your price bracket - then again they may have time. They'll give you other peoples names.

A lot of these guys you can actually just call them up. Send them stuff. Tell them that you're working up your stuff and looking at getting a producer in. Some engineers are also accomplished producers. These people are not that difficult to track down. They're usually in the phone book.

Be very wary of people just out to take your money. Try talking to the people who are on CD's that you like. Call people up. Talk to people. Write them letters. Some people will speak to you, some won't - some people are real arseholes - some aren't.

If I was given the choice of time in Windmill lane with just an engineer or time in budget studio with Donal Lunny - I know which I'd pick.

PaulBrewer

galwaybabe wrote: »

Hi lads. We're booking into a very nice studio very soon to put some more tracks down. I'm all confused about the producer end of things. Is it totally necessary to have one?

That's a bit like asking 'is a Sherpa guide necessary to climb Mount Everest' ....

You may well get up there by yourself - though it will probably be much less stressful and more enjoyable if Mr.Tensing is on the team.

He may also show you other routes you might not discover by yourself.... that, in the end, you prefer.

Denalihighway

Producers can be hugely beneficial, just as long as they're on your wavelength and you're on theirs.

Questions you should be asking before selecting one:

- do I like the stuff they've done before and is it similar to our stuff? (very important)
- can I get some recommendations?
- what are their approaches? Do they allign with how we;d like to approach it?
- are there any accounts of good/bad behaviour that would influence my decision? Will we get on???
- are they hands off or hands on? IE - will you be comfortable with someone having a bit of creative input or do you just want someone cracking the whip? My advice is to always keep an open mind, take advice on board but know where the line is.

by and large producers have a broad knowledge of music but you're wise to shack up with someone who has experience and a proven track record doing something similar to what you want to achieve.

If you find the right person, (and if you can afford them :pac:), I'd imagine the benefits are massive.

Take your time, do your homework and enjoy.

i57dwun4yb1pt8

decent songs normally are not a chorus and verse repeated 3 times with different lyrics.


ehh ???

ebaysellerrob

whats eh about what I said was true...listen to most young indie or hardcore bands they will bore you to tears by repeating the one chorus and verse 3 times esp with song lenght getting close to 4 or 5 min

krd

Galway Babe's gang do an Irish trad thing. There's a serious community of professional trad production people out there. People who've been able to make CDs that sell in Irish woolen goods shops and tour around the US and Europe - Japan and Australia doing sound.

The same can't be said for the Irish Indie music production community. *cough* it can't be said the Americans, continentals and anti-podeans are exactly crying out for it.

*cough*

krd

PaulBrewer wrote: »

That's a bit like asking 'is a Sherpa guide necessary to climb Mount Everest' ....

You may well get up there by yourself - though it will probably be much less stressful and more enjoyable if Mr.Tensing is on the team.

He may also show you other routes you might not discover by yourself.... that, in the end, you prefer.

Paul - the whole "idea" of the producer is very different from the idea of the engineer or the musician.

The engineers job is to make it sound "right" - the musician's job is to play their funny little instrument things.

The producers job is to produce something - to get results.

Like this

I'm running a record company - or some other scam that does music - I give Paul Brewer the job of producing a recording - I don't care if the drummer can play in time - I don't give a flying fcuk if the bassist can't find a groove - the singer; the singer was brought on board for her tits - I don't care whether she's in tune or not

So Paul, I give you the job of producing and I say "Paul, I've got the utmost confidence in your abilities, and like you work for me I work for other people too - who've got a lot on the line over this. So, if we do good, we do good. If we barely scratch top 20, and have abysmal radio play - then - then my good friend - you lose a bollock - if this sinks without a trace - you lose both bollocks..... I will cut them off myself, with a dirty penknife and eat them and wash them down with a rough country pinot grigoire from lidl - IF I thinking you've deliberately burned the gig out some attitude - I will chew more than your balls."

Some simple questions

1. If you're producing trad - who are the top selling CDs this year and last year.
2. Anything else - who's in the charts - who's selling records - Who's current.

3. Is there a magic in what you do.


The failure in Irish indie music is not that the recordings are in terms of sound poorly produced - it's that there's something crucial missing from the recordings. The producer has to make sure that magic is there.

I mean the concern in getting a drummer to play to a click track and make a good take of the entire track is ludicrous - no cares or will ever know if the entire was looped. Or "supplemented" . What's the point of getting a drummer to play and then using Beat detective to find where they screw up?


Galway Babe - look up Irish trad producers and talk to them - They may seriously help you out, if they think you're serious and there's a good chance of them making serious money down the track out of ye. Or if they just like ye. A few weeks touring American or European festivals doing sound is not the worst way in the world to make a living.

If you can get a decent CD or two out - if you can back Ceille or Sets - there's Americans who will fly ye all the way out there, pay ye and put ye up in hotels, feed and water ye etc. I've known people who weren't even that good who made a decent living from it.

And something about well produced trad CDs. I've known people who couldn't play very well but were able to make very slick CDs with the help of a good producer (whether someone else ultimately played on the recordings I have no idea - that's showbizznezz as they say)

ebaysellerrob

actually biggest problem with irish indie bands is that they all seem to want to just copy what ever is in ie arctic monkeys blockparty kings of leon.They never seem to want to create out side what has allready been done or push the envelope

galwaybabe

Thanks to all for your input. The argument for a producer is very strong and I think I have been convinced.

It's a very unknown territory for me. I've followed advice and looked up some producers. I've got numbers for a couple of them. The thing is I'm not 100% on how it all works.

I have a few questions that hopefully one or two of you lovely people could clear up for me.

I assume these guys don't come cheap. Can anyone tell me a ballpark figure of what we should expect to pay?

Continuing to work on the assumption that these guys don't come cheap, is it possible, and is there a point in, just getting someone to sit in at the mixing point of the process?

To those of you who know our music, is there anyone you would recommend?

Thanks a million.

madtheory

Phone them up, discuss your needs. Much better than the internot.

galwaybabe

madtheory wrote: »

Phone them up, discuss your needs. Much better than the internot.

I just thought it would be a good idea to have a bit of background knowledge before ringing them

madtheory

They are providing you with a service, they're the ones who must impress you,not the other way around.

krd

galwaybabe wrote: »

Thanks to all for your input. The argument for a producer is very strong and I think I have been convinced.

It's a very unknown territory for me. I've followed advice and looked up some producers. I've got numbers for a couple of them. The thing is I'm not 100% on how it all works.

I have a few questions that hopefully one or two of you lovely people could clear up for me.

I assume these guys don't come cheap. Can anyone tell me a ballpark figure of what we should expect to pay?

Continuing to work on the assumption that these guys don't come cheap, is it possible, and is there a point in, just getting someone to sit in at the mixing point of the process?

To those of you who know our music, is there anyone you would recommend?

Thanks a million.

The Irish folk music world is actually quite small - and absolutely everyone knows everyone else. I used to know people - on personal level. It's a small country - and surprisingly or unsurprisingly; they all know each other or have worked together.

But I've known people who folk music was their day job. And not like Indie music - you don't have to be super famous to make a living from it.

Some of these guys, though - are the greatest tossers who've ever walked Gods green earth. (the children of well known musicians, tend to be some of the worst arseholes.)

An Irish folk CD - for a gigging folk band can actually make money and cover it's costs. Even if you're playing a small pub - you can bring a few of them - someone may ask for one. If you get the chance to play in the US or Germany, you will sell a lot of CDs at a gig - T-Shirts. (At the minute you couldn't give an Irish Indie CD away)

Try to avoid the arseholes - some are very talented - but they are complete arseholes. AND don't be an arsehole yourself.

Glassheart

galwaybabe wrote: »

To those of you who know our music, is there anyone you would recommend?

Just throwing it out there but what about Lance Hogan from Kila if he is available?

PaulBrewer

galwaybabe wrote: »

Thanks to all for your input. The argument for a producer is very strong and I think I have been convinced.

It's a very unknown territory for me. I've followed advice and looked up some producers. I've got numbers for a couple of them. The thing is I'm not 100% on how it all works.

I have a few questions that hopefully one or two of you lovely people could clear up for me.

I assume these guys don't come cheap. Can anyone tell me a ballpark figure of what we should expect to pay?

Continuing to work on the assumption that these guys don't come cheap, is it possible, and is there a point in, just getting someone to sit in at the mixing point of the process?

To those of you who know our music, is there anyone you would recommend?

Thanks a million.

Paul Gurney in Longford does a lot of trad. He's an experienced very talented musician too.
He has his own studio just outside of Longford town.

DamagedTrax

Glassheart wrote: »

Just throwing it out there but what about Lance Hogan from Kila if he is available?

BIG + 1 on lance :cool: but i'd imagine he doesnt come cheap these days!

galwaybabe

Thanks to everyone for all your advice, both on line and off line. We've got ourselves a producer now, happy days!