lunch/dinner/tea/supper etc

metrovelvet

Why do Irish people refer to lunch as dinner and dinner as tea?

easynote

Maybe lunch used to be the main meal and dinner used to be just tea?

metrovelvet

In American English the terms refer to the time of day of the meal. Lunch is around noon or 1. Dinner is after work in the evening and generally is the main meal.

But when I go into my son's playschool and ask them if they ate all his lunch they dont know what Im talking about. Then they say he ate his dinner.

And when people invite you over for your "tea' they dont mean tea, they mean dinner because they serve you a meal.

Donkey Oaty

metrovelvet wrote: »

But when I go into my son's playschool and ask them if they ate all his lunch they dont know what Im talking about.

Presumably they didn't eat all his lunch?

metrovelvet

Donkey Oaty wrote: »

Presumably they didn't eat all his lunch?

Sorry, I meant if he ate all his lunch.

pickarooney

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why do Irish people refer to lunch as dinner and dinner as tea?

It's way more complicated than "Irish people say this". There are rural/urban, north/south and social divides which define what people call each meal, as well as the time and consistency of each. I'm pretty sure there was a long AH thread on who calls which what a while back. AFAIK, some British, Australians and NZers also have 'tea' as a meal in the early evening.

At a guess, I would say that in rural farming communities the larger meals would have traditionally been eaten around midday and provide fuel for the labour-intensive afternoons, whereafter a smaller meal, called 'tea' and roughly equivalent to English 'high tea' would be eaten. 'Supper' replaces 'tea' for this meal in some areas.

When I was young, we had lunch only at school (around noon) and it was usually sandwiches and fruit. Dinner was after school (around 4.30) and there would be tea at 7ish. Dinner would have been slightly bigger than the other meals.

In your son's school does he eat a hot meal off a plate at midday or sandwiches from a lunchbox? I doubt very much the staff are unfamiliar with the word 'lunch'!

Donkey Oaty

pickarooney wrote: »

At a guess, I would say that in rural farming communities the larger meals would have traditionally been eaten around midday and provide fuel for the labour-intensive afternoons, whereafter a smaller meal, called 'tea' and roughly equivalent to English 'high tea' would be eaten.

They discussed the issue on Newstalk yesterday (broadcasting from the National Ploughing Championships) and this was exact explanation given by one of the farmers who had his dinner during the day.

Incidentally, you might have thought he would have had a "ploughman's lunch", but that term was invented by the British Cheese Marketing Board in the 1970s.

metrovelvet

pickarooney wrote: »

It's way more complicated than "Irish people say this". There are rural/urban, north/south and social divides which define what people call each meal, as well as the time and consistency of each. I'm pretty sure there was a long AH thread on who calls which what a while back. AFAIK, some British, Australians and NZers also have 'tea' as a meal in the early evening.

At a guess, I would say that in rural farming communities the larger meals would have traditionally been eaten around midday and provide fuel for the labour-intensive afternoons, whereafter a smaller meal, called 'tea' and roughly equivalent to English 'high tea' would be eaten. 'Supper' replaces 'tea' for this meal in some areas.

When I was young, we had lunch only at school (around noon) and it was usually sandwiches and fruit. Dinner was after school (around 4.30) and there would be tea at 7ish. Dinner would have been slightly bigger than the other meals.

In your son's school does he eat a hot meal off a plate at midday or sandwiches from a lunchbox? I doubt very much the staff are unfamiliar with the word 'lunch'!

Yes he has a hot meal at midday.

FlutterinBantam

Indeed

Terminology probably stems back to rural and non office environment when the content and temperature of the meal partaken was important.

ergo ..if the meal partaken at midday was hot and substantial ,as it usually was in previous times ,it was referred to as dinner.

then the meal taken at around 1800 in the evening was usually cold ie no hot foods and referred to as tea.
For instance ham or cold meat and brown bread.

As times changed and it became more difficult to partake of a substantial hot meal circa 1300, the situation was reversed, the cold meal was taken then=lunch, and the substantial hot meal taken later circa 1900 =dinner.

I would suggest supper is a dying repast as most people now do not partake, but i am aware that in the past that most people would not hit the hay without the 'cup o tay and the jammy scone'.:D

easynote

actuallythe word dinner comes from old french word disner meaning lunch, but originally breakfast. It's all very confusing, let's just call it food.

The Raven.

There is also the 'eating out' situation to consider. In restaurants and hotels meals are served as follows:

Lunch: midday - starters, choice of hot or cold meal, dessert, coffee.
Afternoon Tea: mid-afternoon - tea/coffee and sandwiches, scones, cakes etc.
Dinner: from about 8 pm. onwards - starters, main course (usually hot), dessert, coffee.

That is not to say that people always eat that amount of food, but that is what is available. Most restaurants only open for lunch and dinner.

The descriptions 'lunch/dinner/tea' vary in the homes and schools, and in different areas. In rural Ireland it used to be 'dinner' (hot meal) midday, and 'tea' (light meal) at 6 pm. and supper (lighter meal) before bedtime. Some of this may have changed in recent times.

In the south of England the midday meal is usually referred to as 'lunch', and the main evening meal is referred to as 'dinner', but it is often the other way round in certain rural areas.

However, in schools the midday break is usually referred to as lunchtime, but the meals served at schools are sometimes referred to as 'school dinners', so it can be a little confusing.

Whichever terminology is used, the main meal of the day is usually referred to as 'dinner'. Amusingly, in certain circles, there is a snob value attached to having 'dinner' in the evening and 'lunch' at midday, in spite of the valid reasons for doing the opposite, such as the necessity for a sustainable meal to get through the rest of the day, and other health related issues.

deman

metrovelvet wrote: »

Why do Irish people refer to lunch as dinner and dinner as tea?

It's not just the Irish though. In the north of England, they say the same. My friend from Manchester and I had a discussion about this not so long ago.

FlutterinBantam

The Raven. wrote: »

There is also the 'eating out' situation to consider. In restaurants and hotels meals are served as follows:

Lunch: midday - starters, choice of hot or cold meal, dessert, coffee.
Afternoon Tea: mid-afternoon - tea/coffee and sandwiches, scones, cakes etc.
Dinner: from about 8 pm. onwards - starters, main course (usually hot), dessert, coffee.

That is not to say that people always eat that amount of food, but that is what is available. Most restaurants only open for lunch and dinner.

The descriptions 'lunch/dinner/tea' vary in the homes and schools, and in different areas. In rural Ireland it used to be 'dinner' (hot meal) midday, and 'tea' (light meal) at 6 pm. and supper (lighter meal) before bedtime. Some of this may have changed in recent times.

In the south of England the midday meal is usually referred to as 'lunch', and the main evening meal is referred to as 'dinner', but it is often the other way round in certain rural areas.

However, in schools the midday break is usually referred to as lunchtime, but the meals served at schools are sometimes referred to as 'school dinners', so it can be a little confusing.

sWhichever terminology is used, the main meal of the day is usually referred to as 'dinner'. Amusingly, in certain circles, there is a snob value attached to having 'dinner' in the evening and 'lunch' at midday, in spite of the valid reasons for doing the opposite, such as the necessity for a sustainable meal to get through the rest of the day, and other health related issue.

If I might question that logic.

In rural area and going back in the past when manual labour formed the basis of the workforce the substantial hot meal circa 1300 was the norm.Food was then needed to sustain hard manual work throughout the day

However in todays circumstances when non manual labour is the norm in the highly populated urban areas, the lighter meal at midday would be the more prevalent, as a heavy meal would induce the three o'clock slump:Dwithout doubt.

hence the main meal was held till circa 1900 and due to this heavier repast, obviated the need for a supper, which has lost popularity over the years.

The Raven.

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

If I might question that logic.

In rural area and going back in the past when manual labour formed the basis of the workforce the substantial hot meal circa 1300 was the norm.Food was then needed to sustain hard manual work throughout the day

However in todays circumstances when non manual labour is the norm in the highly populated urban areas, the lighter meal at midday would be the more prevalent, as a heavy meal would induce the three o'clock slump:Dwithout doubt.

hence the main meal was held till circa 1900 and due to this heavier repast, obviated the need for a supper, which has lost popularity over the years.

I would say it depends on how much one eats and what one eats. It is argued by some nutritionists that one should eat a full breakfast, a lighter meal at midday, and an even lighter meal later on.

metrovelvet

ok so In the British Isles DINNER refers to the size of the meal [the main meal] rather than the time of the meal?

metrovelvet

metrovelvet wrote: »

ok so In the British Isles DINNER refers to the size of the meal [the main meal] rather than the time of the meal?

Yep I think so

Personally if I have a hot meal at lunchtime I think I would say I had a dinner at lunchtime

edit: I think if you came in asking "did he eat all his lunch" it sounds like he brought in a packed lunch, sandwich or something

metrovelvet

bluewolf wrote: »

Yep I think so

Personally if I have a hot meal at lunchtime I think I would say I had a dinner at lunchtime

edit: I think if you came in asking "did he eat all his lunch" it sounds like he brought in a packed lunch, sandwich or something

Yeah see, for us it refers to the time of day. Lunch is the midday meal, hot, cold, big or small.

looksee

Lunch can only be in the middle of the day, but dinner could be a substantial meal at midday or in the evening. I refer to the evening meal, which is our main meal, as either tea or dinner indescriminately.

In the north of England workmen, especially miners, used take a packed meal for eating at midday, or halfway through the shift, and it was known as 'snap' and was carried in a flat, slice of bread-shaped tin called a snap tin. Variations on 'As tha' packed me snap?' were familiar as I grew up.

pickarooney

metrovelvet wrote: »

ok so In the British Isles DINNER refers to the size of the meal [the main meal] rather than the time of the meal?

The antipodes follow this convention also. Although I often have a larger, hot meal at midday than I do in the evening and still call it lunch out of habit.

MathsManiac

Wife: "Did you have lunch or dinner in the middle of the day?"
Me: "Lunch"
Wife: "Ok, we'll have dinner this evening so."

Wife: "Did you have lunch or dinner in the middle of the day?"
Me: "Dinner"
Wife: "Ok, we'll have just have tea this evening so."

(Note: wife is evidently not bothered about what she eats, and assumes I want one big meal and one ickle one!)

r3nu4l

metrovelvet wrote: »

ok so In the British Isles DINNER refers to the size of the meal [the main meal] rather than the time of the meal?

I'm not so sure there are hard and fast rules although if they are their regulations and standards are lost on the everyday person.

For instance, in my workplace in East Anglia in England, I might take a client to lunch which will consist of a hot meal (meat, potato and vegetables), a dessert and tea/coffee.

I will take another client to dinner in the evening of another day and it may be the very same meal I had for 'lunch' the day before...

This isn't just peculiar to England. I've had the same experience in France and Germany when my clients took me to 'lunch' or 'dinner'. Perhaps in the business world, lunch is a meal between 12 and 2pm while dinner is anytime after 7pm? I honestly don't know, I'm just relaying my experiences.