Thread Locked and Publicly Called a Fool By Biz Mod

f.daly

Hi, I started a thread here in the entrepreneurial and business management section regarding a business "guru" called Eben Pagan.
With out doing any research the Mod automatically assumed he was a get rich quick scheme "shylock", implied I was a fool and locked the thread, even though I welcomed criticism of Pagan in my OP.
This is quite embarrassing on my part as I have had no chance to defend myself and would have been more than open to discuss whether or not there was any hucksterism involved.

I find jor el's knee jerk reaction to be short sighted and childish as a quick Google search would have revealed that Pagan is indeed legit. Can jor el's decision be reversed so a proper discussion can take place?

jor el

Obviously you don't make a habit of reading things properly, like the rules for starting a thread on this forum, or my post on the thread in question. You only PM'd me about this less than 20 minutes before starting this thread. I also didn't call you a fool, I said All get rich quick schemes are scams, and you're a fool if you give money to these shylocks. This is not directed at you, but at anyone that throws money away on this kind of scam.

I did do a search by the way, and after searching his name I see nothing to suggest this is anything but another in a long line of Internet marketing tools that make claims of getting rich quick, without any real evidence to back it up. Most of the discussion about his products are on sites that try to sell you these products. In my opinion, these scams have no place on this site. Offering them any publicity only serves to promote them.

Thanks for calling me childish in both PM and on this thread, though I don't see how that helps your case, or is supposed to make anyone want to help you.

Since I am CMod in Biz, I will defer to dudara or the admins for a decision in this case.

f.daly

Your post obviously implied I was a fool.

Apologies for posting here so soon after PMing you. Bit of a knee jerk reaction of my own.I can see how in my OP Pagan may have come across as a huckster but I still think this would have been better off being discussed rather than locking the thread.


I was first introduced to Pagan by a relatively successful small business person who had successfully used one of his marketing programs. Some other people may know him as David D'angelo, the highly successful dating advice guru. This is where he first made his millions and at one point was making 20 million a year. His current training programs show others how to emulate this success.
At no point does he say that people will "get rich quick" but that it will take hard work and time. Of course there are scams out there but it is ridiculous to claim any internet program which helps people gets rich quickly or otherwise is made by "shylocks".
Pagan is more on a par with Tony Robbins, Napoleon Hill and other people who focus on the psychology and mental attitudes behind becoming successful. This kind of self motivational stuff can seem cheesy and be off putting to us cynical Irish but it works.
If you still doubt his credentials Google his name again and you will find a video of him interviewing Richard Branson at a fundraiser for the Virgin Unite Foundation. A get rich quick scheme shylock would never have been asked to host such a prestigious event.

f.daly

Hi,
Just wondering if any one has had a chance to deal with this? It's been four days since I posted here.

Zaph

Apologies, it appears that the other Biz CMod isn't around at the moment. I'll have a look at it and get back to you shortly.

Zaph

OK, I've had a look at this , so I'll start with the locking of the thread first. I agree that jor el's choice of words does leave it open to interpretation as to whether he called you a fool or not. I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't his intention and that he meant it as a more general "you", but their choice of words might be something for all mods to bear in mind in the future.

As regards your post, well if you look at it from a mod's perspective you're a person posting his first post in the forum and including links to a "guru". We get these sort of threads all the time and 99.9% of the time deleting them as spam is the correct call. With this in mind, I'm sure you can appreciate where jor el was coming from when the thread was locked. As for the subject of your post, one man's genius is another's charlatan. I've never heard of the guy, and to be honest I do view these people with the same degree of scepticism as jor el does. However there are bound to be some good guys out there, As it's impossible to separate the good guys from the bad guys, I think it's best to leave all of them out. Perhaps the forum charger should be updated to state this more explicitly.

I know this mightn't be the outcome you were hoping for, but we have to be fair to all our members and make sure that they're not caught out by one of the less credible "gurus". Banning all of these type of threads from the forum is the easy way around this as we don't have the resources to investigate every one of them.

f.daly

Cheers Zaph.
I can appreciate how many scam artists their are out there and Pagan has had a lot of copy cats. I would never take "the internet's" word on something like this and, to be honest, if he hadn't been recommended by someone I trust, I'd probably be as skeptical as you guys.

I noticed Tim Ferris's Book the "Four Hour Work Week" recommended in the "Information, Essential Links & Books" Sticky. He would be similar to Pagan but since he seems more familiar to the mods I take it it would be fine to start a thread relating to his book?

Zaph

f.daly wrote: »

I noticed Tim Ferris's Book the "Four Hour Work Week" recommended in the "Information, Essential Links & Books" Sticky. He would be similar to Pagan but since he seems more familiar to the mods I take it it would be fine to start a thread relating to his book?

You'd probably be best running that by them yourself as I know nothing about any of those guys.

dudara

Apologies for coming late to this discussion.

I am inclined to agree with jor el on this one. We have numerous attempts to post spam, pyramid schemes and a myriad of other "get-rich quick" schemes everyday on the Business forums. I doubt that we would have time to vet them all to filter out the gold from the dross. In addition, one man's gold would be another man's dross.

If you would care to put a case together for discussion of this author, then I can review at some stage, consult with jor el and make a decision.

In addition, when a poster says "you", it doesn't always refer to you personally. It's a form of idiomatic English referring to the plural.

regards,

dudara

f.daly

Hi Dudura,

Apologies for the late reply.

This wasn't a grammatical misunderstanding. My problem was that Jor El's post implied that I was one of the fools. I accept that this was not his intention, however this is not at all clear in his post. If mods are going to use derogatory language is it unreasonable to ask that they be clear about who they are referring to?


Anyway, rather than start a thread about any of the authors or gurus Iv'e mentioned I think it would be better to start a thread about their methods and online business in general. If I do want to name check any of these guys I'll run it by yourself and Jor El first.