Irish Rail €100 penalty on a minor

panjero

Hi all,

Can any one comment on this. question

15 year old receives 100 fine for not having valid DART ticket Can Irish Rail enforce this penalty on a minor?
What happens if it not paid by the minor?



Many thanks

Chuchoter

It still applies to a minor (I don't actually think he's still a minor in terms of fares). They are quite strict, sadly

krieture

From the CIE website under the Customer Charter:

Everyone must have a ticket to travel by train.

If you do not have a valid ticket for travel we will charge you a fixed penalty fare of up to €150. If your ticket requires an ID card, you must have that card with you when travelling. If you don't have the ID card with you, we will charge you a fixed penalty of up to €150.

So looks like he will have to pay......

panjero

Many thanks for the replies.

Suppose will have to bite the bullet and pay up.Like all penalties and fines you hate having to pay up.

The way things have changed.

Vic_08

panjero wrote: »

Many thanks for the replies.

Suppose will have to bite the bullet and pay up.Like all penalties and fines you hate having to pay up.

The way things have changed.

Yes, it is terrible when there is no convenient loophole to allow you to get away with breaking the law.

Cookie_Monster

anyone under 18 cannot enter a valid contract, hence even buying a ticket to use the train is technically invalid...

TheChrisD

Depends OP, maybe you want to clarify the reasons as to why this minor has received this fine?

murphaph

crayolastereo wrote: »

It still applies to a minor (I don't actually think he's still a minor in terms of fares). They are quite strict, sadly

What's sad about it? They should be even more strict!

Ham'nd'egger

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

anyone under 18 cannot enter a valid contract, hence even buying a ticket to use the train is technically invalid...

Which would mean they can't buy anything in a shop and be covered by trading laws for a refund, terms of contract and all of that

dowlingm

panjero wrote: »

The way things have changed.

Whatever do you mean? That people being fined for not paying their way is a bad thing?

high heels

If it went to court I think it would come under the JLO thing?? So basically you have a gardai come to your house and have a talk and they come back once and a while to check up.. I remember a lad who was 17 get away with penalty points this way..

panjero

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

anyone under 18 cannot enter a valid contract, hence even buying a ticket to use the train is technically invalid...

That is what I thought also.

Has anybody broken the law here?
A minor has no rail ticket.Is given a fixed penalty by an offical from Irish Rail and I ask what is the position regarding the payment of this penalty.

I am totally justified in finding out what can and cannot be done here in this situation.One always must stay within the law.

foggy_lad

panjero wrote: »

That is what I thought also.

Has anybody broken the law here?
A minor has no rail ticket.Is given a fixed penalty by an offical from Irish Rail and I ask what is the position regarding the payment of this penalty.

I am totally justified in finding out what can and cannot be done here in this situation.One always must stay within the law.

legally has the inspector any authority to deal with a minor by fining them without a responsible adult being present? a minor cant be fined by the courts or even interviewed by police or others without a responsible adult being present.

Victor

panjero, if you think there may be extenuating circumstances, try writing to them and see if an arrangement can be reached.

Can I suggest no pocket money for quite a while and one of these (if appropriate)? https://www.irishrail.ie/smartcard/pages/welcomeAnonymousIV.jsf

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

anyone under 18 cannot enter a valid contract, hence even buying a ticket to use the train is technically invalid...

Actually, minors can enter contracts of necessity and a train ticket can be easily construed as a necessity. In any case, having a ticket is covered by bye-laws.

BrianD

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

anyone under 18 cannot enter a valid contract, hence even buying a ticket to use the train is technically invalid...

This is not true. Anybody of any age or mental capacity can enter into a legal binding contract. However, you enter into a contract with a minor or a mentally incapacitated person at your peril as they can claim that they did not fully understand the terms and conditions of the contract and any liabilities or obligations that may be required of them.

Clearly buying a train ticket is not covered by the above. You buy a ticket to avail of transportation. Plus they can enter contracts of necessity. You need a ticket to travel.

At 15 this person should be pretty well aware that you don't travel without a ticket. I don't think it would be in the minors interest not to pay the fine.

murphaph

BrianD wrote: »

I don't think it would be in the minors interest not to pay the fine.

Exactly! Weaseling out of paying this entirely appropriate fine sends all the wrong signals to the young lad. As already said, pay the fine then "fine" the lad through no pocket money until the fine is paid off. How else can the child be expected to learn that his actions have consequences?!

-Chris-

For those who are saying that minors can't enter contracts and that a minor would have to be accompanied by a responsible adult in order to be fined...

...please bear in mind that the natural extension of this is that minors won't be allowed to purchase tickets or travel unaccompanied unless they're accompanied by a responsible adult. Do you really, really want that??

Trampas

sounds like someone got on a lansdowne road cause the amount of kids who tailgate, jump gates and find ways getting into the station is crazy when they finish school

BrianD

murphaph wrote: »

Exactly! Weaseling out of paying this entirely appropriate fine sends all the wrong signals to the young lad. As already said, pay the fine then "fine" the lad through no pocket money until the fine is paid off. How else can the child be expected to learn that his actions have consequences?!

Well that wasn't my reason! If this would were to go to court then the parents are going to unneccsarily brought their child into the courts system and be out of pocket for lawyers and the fine. The only reason that a judge will throw it out is if there is insufficient paperwork or there was some good external reason that would appeal to the good will of a judge who might in the mood to let you off.

Having said that I can somewhat understand the indignation of the fine when other unsavoury characters are allowed use public transport on a whim and are unchallenged or get the use of free travel passes for no good reason At the same time two wrongs don't make a right.

Our man in Havana

I wish them the best of luck trying to prosecute a 15 year old.

dowlingm

I'm sure 15 year olds can be prosecuted for shoplifting, how is this different?

scorpioishere

crayolastereo wrote: »

It still applies to a minor (I don't actually think he's still a minor in terms of fares). They are quite strict, sadly

What's sad about this? That minor should have got a fine of 500 euros instead of 100. The law should be more strict as lots of people travel for example on the luas without paying.

Our man in Havana

dowlingm wrote: »

I'm sure 15 year olds can be prosecuted for shoplifting, how is this different?

It would have to be the childerens court and we would not get a fine but be JLO'd.

BrianD

Haddockman wrote: »

It would have to be the childerens court and we would not get a fine but be JLO'd.

I've no idea what JLO is but I'm guessing "just let off" or words to that effect.

Fair enough, no fine paid and he walks. Having said that, what parent would walk their in to the childrens court knowing that they are in the wrong and the risk of a prosecution hanging over the kid. Maybe the judge will be having a bad day and and will look up and down at a 15 year old who should have known better and is clearly wasting his time and that will be €100 and a conviction. Maybe he won't but what parent in their right mind would risk it?

TheChrisD

BrianD wrote: »

I've no idea what JLO is but I'm guessing "just let off" or words to that effect.

Juvenile Liaison Officer. Basically a stern talking to which counts as an official warning or something similar to that.

BrianD

TheChrisD wrote: »

Juvenile Liaison Officer. Basically a stern talking to which counts as an official warning or something similar to that.

Well I guessed wrong there but I'm sure that there are many people who would probably it may as well stand for just let off.

Anyway, why would any parent subject their teenager to this knowing that they are in the wrong and that the right think to do is pay the find and discipline their charge.

Going any further is actually a cost to everyone, the parents, distracts from the important work that courts have to do and it is completely irresposible of any parent to put unnecssairly put their teenage son or daughter into the courts system when there is a straightforward exit.