AIL Div 3

Daragh86

With AIL about to kick off shortly anyone have any thoughts on how Div 3 might fair up this season (my team of interest is Div 3, but feel free to discuss all AIL)?

Digifriendly

Derry are going well in early season (unbeaten in Ulster Senior League) having come back up from Junior ranks and I fancy their chances for promotion from AIL 3.

Daragh86

Top 4 get promoted to Div 2A this season due to restructuring so everyone is going to be pushing very hard this season.

ormondprop

its hard to know how it will fair out, with four teams getting promoted a few clubs have invested heavily in getting promoted, as has been said city of derry seem to be going very well in ulster so far this year, highfield will be trying hard to get back up, i hear seapoint are a new force to be reckoned with at senior level now and you can't rule out nenagh after barely missing promotion lastyear and getting to the final against queens and barely losing

Daragh86

I played against Seapoint last season, very impressive side. Seems that Leinster J1 sides are very very strong. Played against Boyne a few weeks ago and again was very impressed. Boyne finished 2nd to Seapoint in J1 last season, favourites to win Lein J1's this season.

Doesn't seem to be too many "easy" games.

ormondprop

there isn't really many (if any at all) teams that you could pick out as having no hope of promotion, first few weeks will tell a lot

Daragh86

ormondprop wrote: »

there isn't really many (if any at all) teams that you could pick out as having no hope of promotion, first few weeks will tell a lot

except Nenagh Ormond of course?? I hear they're muck!

Digifriendly

Daragh86 wrote: »

except Nenagh Ormond of course?? I hear they're muck!

Is that the club that sounds like an ambulance siren?
Ne - na:)

ormondprop

Daragh86 wrote: »

except Nenagh Ormond of course?? I hear they're muck!

heard that too, supposedly have a terrible front row aswell

DW74

I smile when I see comments "investing heavily" when it comes to AIL clubs looking for promotion. As far I know the league has no sponsor, tiny prize money if any and all the clubs are flat broke with broken down club houses. Club rugby at senior level is in terminal decline with money mainly responsible. The Junior clubs breaking their butts to get into the senior ranks are mad, they will end up like the senior clubs.
Rugby is to be played and have fun, the idea of clubs "investing" in getting from Division 3 (which is the fourth tier of club rugby in Ireland) to get to Division 2 A is a complete waste of money. So long players realise it is an amateur sport where fun to be had and new friendships made you can't go to far wrong.

brucy9

i know for a fact some clubs have put a lot of money into there teams.while some clubs are broke not all are. old belvo have a regular income from the car park.wanderers are loaded and have invested heavily in players again this year.greystones have reggie corrigan as coach(doubt he comes cheap)heard seaspoint have recruited well. if u look at junior rugby chris keane returned to skerries as player/coach.there is money still in some rugby clubs.lansdowne still are paying players savage money.

Digifriendly

DW74 wrote: »

I smile when I see comments "investing heavily" when it comes to AIL clubs looking for promotion. As far I know the league has no sponsor, tiny prize money if any and all the clubs are flat broke with broken down club houses. Club rugby at senior level is in terminal decline with money mainly responsible. The Junior clubs breaking their butts to get into the senior ranks are mad, they will end up like the senior clubs.
Rugby is to be played and have fun, the idea of clubs "investing" in getting from Division 3 (which is the fourth tier of club rugby in Ireland) to get to Division 2 A is a complete waste of money. So long players realise it is an amateur sport where fun to be had and new friendships made you can't go to far wrong.

Totally agree with your sentiments. Crowds at Dungannon (club I watch most) are very poor and it's a similar story across the province with Ballynahinch probably the only team in AIL attracting a decent sized crowd (though I stand to be corrected as I haven't been to every Senior ground in last few seasons). Clubs like Belfast Harelequins who did spend some serious money a few years back are struggling both financially and on the field. Why they're expanding the AIL in a time of economic recession across the island beats me. They should either return to provincial leagues with an All Ireland play off for winners in each league or reduce AIL to just 2 divisions with fewer clubs with remaining clubs playing in provincial leagues and with promotion /relegation into the AIL - similar to the start of AIL in early 1990's.

ki

Digifriendly wrote: »

Totally agree with your sentiments. Crowds at Dungannon (club I watch most) are very poor and it's a similar story across the province with Ballynahinch probably the only team in AIL attracting a decent sized crowd (though I stand to be corrected as I haven't been to every Senior ground in last few seasons). Clubs like Belfast Harelequins who did spend some serious money a few years back are struggling both financially and on the field. Why they're expanding the AIL in a time of economic recession across the island beats me. They should either return to provincial leagues with an All Ireland play off for winners in each league or reduce AIL to just 2 divisions with fewer clubs with remaining clubs playing in provincial leagues and with promotion /relegation into the AIL - similar to the start of AIL in early 1990's.

I definitely agree with reducing the league size to 2. Talk to any amateur play (Gaa inc.) and the worst part is the travel.

Players are happy to do it for a year or two but after that it becomes another reason to retire.

Banbridge, Nenagh and Barnhall to go up. Along with An Other.

Tim Robbins

DW74 wrote: »

I smile when I see comments "investing heavily" when it comes to AIL clubs looking for promotion. As far I know the league has no sponsor, tiny prize money if any and all the clubs are flat broke with broken down club houses. Club rugby at senior level is in terminal decline with money mainly responsible. The Junior clubs breaking their butts to get into the senior ranks are mad, they will end up like the senior clubs.
Rugby is to be played and have fun, the idea of clubs "investing" in getting from Division 3 (which is the fourth tier of club rugby in Ireland) to get to Division 2 A is a complete waste of money. So long players realise it is an amateur sport where fun to be had and new friendships made you can't go to far wrong.

Well said DW. It's a pity there isn't more of your common sense about.

There are a number of junior clubs paying big bucks for coaches and I am told that they are also playing players. They did this because they have some sort of cash flow hiring out their function rooms, sponsorship and players membership fees. And of course cheap credit that was going everywhere during the boom. However, those cash flows were miscalculated and many of them are in finacial trouble. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of them forced to sell their lands.

The branch should have limits on how much a club can spend on coaches and a complete ban on playing players if you are a junior club.

bamboozle

i love the AIL and much prefer club rugby to watching my province, unfortunately my team clontarf dropped from 1A to 1B after a disaster of a season last year but have recruited well over the summer (quality rather than last summers quantity) and i'd be hopeful of seeing ourselves and Lansdowne being at the top of 1B.

I think the AIL should revert to the way it was back in the early '90's. Two divisions (8-10 teams in each) and then with 4 strong provincial leagues. This would make the prospect of the AIL Cup far tastier also.

My only gripe with the AIL is that Munster clubs seems to be far more in tune with their province when it comes to munster contracted players being released for club duty, Leinster dont seem too interested in helping out the clubs.

Gracelessly Tom

bamboozle wrote: »

My only gripe with the AIL is that Munster clubs seems to be far more in tune with their province when it comes to munster contracted players being released for club duty, Leinster dont seem too interested in helping out the clubs.

+1 I agree, Leinster have never been in any way helpful to the club game. However, from what I've seen and heard so far this year Schmidt is planning on changing all that and the lads say he seems genuinely keen on players getting game time at their clubs if not playing for Leinster.

It will certainly make a big difference to the top Leinster teams in the AIL.

As for who'll come where in my teams league I'll plum for St Marys (obviously), Con and Shannon (Rock just missing out) with Marys to turn the tables on last seasons final come May.

As for the other end, Dolphin and YM might struggle. Apologies to any Dolphin and YM fans, just MHO.

longshank

I agree totally that paying players is crazy. These guys are not professionals they will play rugby if they are not payed. All it takes is all clubs agree that paying amateur players is madness, but once one club breaks ranks all have to follow to keep their players.
Coaches are a bit different because they need to invest alot more time and money than players and probably wouldn't do it without financial compensation.
four AIL divisions is also madness but asking clubs to reduce it is like asking turkeys to vote for christmas. the travelling involved is madness - look at division 3 - if your in munster look how many northern teams are there and visa versa. A much better format for example in- Div 3 forget provinces - divide it north and south play home and away and follow with round robin playoff?

bamboozle

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

+1 I agree, Leinster have never been in any way helpful to the club game. However, from what I've seen and heard so far this year Schmidt is planning on changing all that and the lads say he seems genuinely keen on players getting game time at their clubs if not playing for Leinster.

It will certainly make a big difference to the top Leinster teams in the AIL.

As for who'll come where in my teams league I'll plum for St Marys (obviously), Con and Shannon (Rock just missing out) with Marys to turn the tables on last seasons final come May.

As for the other end, Dolphin and YM might struggle. Apologies to any Dolphin and YM fans, just MHO.

I'd be very worried if i was a Dolphin Fan, they've lost Brugnaut, Nick Williams, both O'Mahony and Sam Cronin to Clontarf, while Coughlan and Dave Ryan will be involved a lot with Munster so could be missing. I'd be suprised if they stay up cause these guys were core players for them last season along with their outhalf.

Watch out for Old Belvedere, they've got Andy Dunne, Simon Keogh, a great kiwi no. 8 and a lot of contracted Leinster players, will suprise a lot.

Gracelessly Tom

bamboozle wrote: »

I'd be very worried if i was a Dolphin Fan, they've lost Brugnaut, Nick Williams, both O'Mahony and Sam Cronin to Clontarf, while Coughlan and Dave Ryan will be involved a lot with Munster so could be missing. I'd be suprised if they stay up cause these guys were core players for them last season along with their outhalf.

Watch out for Old Belvedere, they've got Andy Dunne, Simon Keogh, a great kiwi no. 8 and a lot of contracted Leinster players, will suprise a lot.

Sorry, my original post meant to say Belvo not Rock. They could easily have beaten Marys in the semi last year (not including the kick incident) and with Keogh at 9 they've a real match winner. They'll be up there once they can travel to munster in the winter months and take a few scalps. Be good to have a few Leinster clubs knocking on the door.

Gordon Gecko

longshank wrote: »

I agree totally that paying players is crazy. These guys are not professionals they will play rugby if they are not payed. All it takes is all clubs agree that paying amateur players is madness, but once one club breaks ranks all have to follow to keep their players.

I'd have to disagree on that point. Having seen first hand the huge commitment in terms of training that Div 1A players make, from July onwards in my club, and the relatively paltry remuneration they get for all their hard work I don't think we can begrudge them their pay. We're not talking Premiership wages here and its not as if a lot of these guys can live off that kind of money. I'm not advocating Lansdownesque payment of players but think that some basic wage is not unreasonable.

longshank

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

I'd have to disagree on that point. Having seen first hand the huge commitment in terms of training that Div 1A players make, from July onwards in my club, and the relatively paltry remuneration they get for all their hard work I don't think we can begrudge them their pay. We're not talking Premiership wages here and its not as if a lot of these guys can live off that kind of money. I'm not advocating Lansdownesque payment of players but think that some basic wage is not unreasonable.

Associating commitment with money is totally against all that is good about sport. Paying players in non-professional leagues is taking money out of the game that should be spent on developing the rundown facilities previously mentioned, you won't find too many rundown facilities in GAA where money isn't wasted on paying players. And I feel so strongly about this that in my playing days i didn't accept money i was entitled too for playing.