Yet another (female) TD announces intention to stand down

mike65

Thats 3 in a couple of weeks, Labours Mary Upton the latest.

Darsad

Yeah had enough time at the table and is cashing in her chips , Gender quotas been looked for now from certain quarters ! maybe they should look for IQ quotas first .

Dun Muirigh

Having previously supported some form of gender quota system to address this issue (although have since changed my mind), I think that people should up the lobbying on the respective party leaderships to ensure that more women are put on the party tickets.

The figures say it all. Ireland has an embarrassing record on female representation in the national parliament.

imme

Mary Upton, Liz McManus, who's the third TD?

Upton is 64, if the current Oireachtas goes full term and she's reelected, she'd be 74 or 75 at the end of that one if it went full term. This could have something to do with it.

I don't support gender quotas.

hinault

imme wrote: »

Mary Upton, Liz McManus, who's the third TD?

Upton is 64, if the current Oireachtas goes full term and she's reelected, she'd be 74 or 75 at the end of that one if it went full term. This could have something to do with it.

I don't support gender quotas.

Olwyn Enright (spelling).

imme

hinault wrote: »

Olwyn Enright (spelling).

of course, thanks hinault.;)

Here's something of Upton's announcement from the Irish Times:

“The Labour Party is at its highest level ever in the opinion polls and I believe that Dublin South Central can return two Labour Party deputies at the next election,” Ms Upton said.
There are several Labour contenders to succeed Ms Upton including her nephew, Cllr Henry Upton, the son of the late Dr Upton; former TD Cllr Eric Byrne, and former Dublin mayor Cllr Michael Conaghan.
Two of the five seats in the Dublin constituency are held by Fianna Fáil, with Fine Gael, Labour and Sinn Féin all holding one seat each."

Interesting that none of those in Labour that might win seats in the constituency are women.

Shea O'Meara

Picking one sex over the other to balance numbers is pure silly.

I hate seeing dynastic trends in politics. Pat to sister Mary and possibly the nephew Henry (son of Pat).
As I understand it Henry Upton went right from graduating third level to working for Mary, to running for local office.
I've posted before, politics should be a calling not a family enterprise.

imme

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Picking one sex over the other to balance numbers is pure silly.

I hate seeing dynastic trends in politics. Pat to sister Mary and possibly the nephew Henry (son of Pat).
As I understand it Henry Upton went right from graduating third level to working for Mary, to running for local office.
I've posted before, politics should be a calling not a family enterprise.

no need to go off topic:P

I've problem with children or relations of previously elected reps standing for election, once they're not being pushed into it and are doing it of their own volition and out of conviction.

Cookie_Monster

so what?

They've seen the mess the whole place is and are taking their money and walking away, nothing more really.

deelite

I'm not political so probably don't know what I'm talking about but anyway - a few years back there was a tv show - Jane Horrocks played the leader of the new purple party - a mostly all female policitcal party - they gained the backing of all women in the country and she became prime minister. Just wondering now are all the ladies who have recently resigned going to come together and start a new political party.....just a thought.

Paddysnapper

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

Picking one sex over the other to balance numbers is pure silly.

I hate seeing dynastic trends in politics. Pat to sister Mary and possibly the nephew Henry (son of Pat).
As I understand it Henry Upton went right from graduating third level to working for Mary, to running for local office.
I've posted before, politics should be a calling not a family enterprise.

Might be off topic but I agree 100%

mike65

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so what?

As was noted on radio this morning the swing vote that matters is young women and the chances are a young woman will be less likely to vote in an old man (Labours average age of TDs is 58!), Clinton, Blair and Cameron all won due to the female vote switching. Tony Blairs pre 1997 cabal recognised how important the demographic is and courted the vote with plenty of female candidates - Blairs Babes as they were known when elected in 1997.

Nijmegen

We should have anti-family quotas if anything...

As regards women in politics, it's a perplexing question. As regards this case, age is a major factor. But in other cases we have seen motherhood acting as the spur. But this is so in many professions, not least the rather special (in terms of job description) world of being a TD.

I think that we need to adjust the underlying issues of why so few women run and are elected TD's: From the local level up to support in the House itself. We have a Dail bar, so why not Dail childcare provisions?

I disagree with quotas, because I believe in getting the best talent - be that a 60% male or an 80% female dominated house, I don't mind!

Lenny Lovett

Here's an interesting concept for Mums who wish to go for election:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314283/Licia-Ronzulli-brings-baby-EU-Parliament.html
The simple fact is that women don't vote for women. If they did we'd have an lmost 50:50 split men to women.

Macha

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Here's an interesting concept for Mums who wish to go for election:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314283/Licia-Ronzulli-brings-baby-EU-Parliament.html
The simple fact is that women don't vote for women. If they did we'd have an lmost 50:50 split men to women.

The issue isn't the electorate, as it's been shown that they are happy to elect female candidates. The issue isn't even candidate selection because parties are more than happy to put forward female candidates. The issue is why women aren't going for a career in politics.

In all of this we shouldn't forget other angles like how many lower class people become TDs, etc.

Lenny Lovett

taconnol wrote: »

In all of this we shouldn't forget other angles like how many lower class people become TDs, etc.

By lower class do you mean scumbags? if so, then most of the current crop qualify!:D

Macha

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

By lower class do you mean scumbags? if so, then most of the current crop qualify!:D

Let me rephrase that: people from underprivileged backgrounds.

fly_agaric

Can't wait for the 50 % female dail. What a massive revolution it'll be. Sure everything will change for the better, like...er...c'mon give me a dig out here...

edit: I know - there'll be more palatial women's kazis in Leinster House and a free dail creche with a 2 staff per child.

unit 1

Please please Lucinda,
yours sincerely Enda
:D

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Shea O'Meara

taconnol wrote: »

Let me rephrase that: people from underprivileged backgrounds.

Apart from name recognition, you have parties courting students at third level. The only time somebody from a pure working class background gets an invite is if they have a self created ground swell of support from say community work or volunteering etc. that a party wants to use.
That said, if a legacy (son or daughter of a known person) decides to run, they get the party nomination and the working class do the leaflet drops.

Liam Byrne

Nijmegen wrote: »

We have a Dail bar, so why not Dail childcare provisions?

While I'm against them having a Dáil bar, are you suggesting that women don't drink ?

johnnyskeleton

deelite wrote: »

I'm not political so probably don't know what I'm talking about but anyway - a few years back there was a tv show - Jane Horrocks played the leader of the new purple party - a mostly all female policitcal party - they gained the backing of all women in the country and she became prime minister. Just wondering now are all the ladies who have recently resigned going to come together and start a new political party.....just a thought.

However bad it is having three big political parties whose idea of a having policies is "I asked my local constituents what they wanted and whatever it was, I support that", can you imagine what it would be like with a political party whose only and only policy is that it is good to be female.

Of course, a female only party would result in a male only party and it woudl be school disco all over again.

johnnyskeleton

Nijmegen wrote: »

I think that we need to adjust the underlying issues of why so few women run and are elected TD's: From the local level up to support in the House itself. We have a Dail bar, so why not Dail childcare provisions?

If the reason why more women don't take up employment in the coal mining sector is because there aren't enough creches there then that's fair enough.

But honestly, how could anyone earning 100k a year not be able to afford childcare? I would be in favour of reducing politician's perks, not increasing them.

hotmail.com

These 3 will be certainly missed by no one.

Nijmegen

Re: Dail Creche, firstly, I think that a creche would be a far better thing to have in the Dail than a bar! A canteen would be best.

Secondly, re: it being a perk, where can I find affordable childcare on a Wednesday night, for example? And I think that having the facilities and making them pay for them, as other employers do, wouldn't be a bad idea.

But I think, ultimately, that the politicial lifestyle is not a choice that many women want to make. And I don't agree with changing the political landscape completely to suit them - I agree, for example, with the idea of allowing a TD to take maternity leave and be replaced for a few months, but I disagree with changing Dail hours, which are there to suit the other runnings of the country, like ministers and their dayjobs.

maggy_thatcher

Nijmegen wrote: »

I agree, for example, with the idea of allowing a TD to take maternity leave and be replaced for a few months

Just curious -- how would you have a TD "replaced for a few months"? Have a by-election for the people to choose who they want to represent them? We live in a country where the government seem quite happy for areas to be under-represented because they're afraid they'll lose...what makes you think they'll support introducing "temporary TDs"? If they aren't introduced via a by-election, then they aren't democratically elected.

Nijmegen

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

Just curious -- how would you have a TD "replaced for a few months"? Have a by-election for the people to choose who they want to represent them? We live in a country where the government seem quite happy for areas to be under-represented because they're afraid they'll lose...what makes you think they'll support introducing "temporary TDs"? If they aren't introduced via a by-election, then they aren't democratically elected.

We have systems in place already whereby, for example, a local representative can be replaced by a member of his or her own party if that person leaves.

Happened with Joe Higgins when he was elected to Fingal and as an MEP. He didn't take up the post in Fingal and it went to another member of his party.

In the US if a member of Congress departs, there is a person nominated to replace them, not an election.

For a few months of maternity leave I don't see much problem in the person we elected choosing a replacement for themselves.

I think actually, given the demanding nature of Irish politics, that most politicians wouldn't want to be out for a few months anyway, and certainly not give exposure to someone who could be their running "mate" next election.

maggy_thatcher

Nijmegen wrote: »

We have systems in place already whereby, for example, a local representative can be replaced by a member of his or her own party if that person leaves.

We have the systems in place for local representation, but not for TDs...if we did then this mess with the by-elections wouldn't be needed. I'm not sure if allowing party-replacements would be constitutional (the constitution specifically says that there should be elections for "casual vacancies").

I guess until maternity leave is replaced with parental leave, if you vote for a woman in her child-bearing years, you always run the risk of being under-represented for awhile (if we did the replacement, then it wouldn't matter which gender you voted for you would run the risk of being under-represented).

Nehaxak

True nature of some of you showing through there with even the mention of "class" as if to suggest you're a better person due to your wealthy background or upbringing - what an utter load of absolute hogwash.
The biggest scumbags, the most corrupt and the people who have ruined, absolutely ruined this country, are from wealthy backgrounds, a "higher" class than the majority in this country if you will, the golden circle. Yes, they've done a great job of it all so far, thanks very much lads.

Lenny Lovett

Ivana Bacik was on Newstalk at lunchtime saying that a reason that women weren't going for the Dail was a lack of childcare facilities and that should be addressed. WTF is that all about? Any TD (Male or Female/Parent or not) wil be earning a hefty sum so should bloody well pay for childcare themselves. Honestly, these Politicians are light years away from reality!

bijapos

^ +1

Alternatively the husband could stay at home while she goes to work/meetings.

Thought this headline summed up a lot of attitudes that still exist .

goose2005

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

We have the systems in place for local representation, but not for TDs...if we did then this mess with the by-elections wouldn't be needed. I'm not sure if allowing party-replacements would be constitutional (the constitution specifically says that there should be elections for "casual vacancies").

But then they'd just appoint their child or brother etc. just as happens on councils.

gizmo555

Lenny Lovett wrote: »

Ivana Bacik was on Newstalk at lunchtime saying that a reason that women weren't going for the Dail was a lack of childcare facilities and that should be addressed.

This is a complete red herring that Bacik keeps raising. First of all, childcare is an expensive and difficult issue for all working parents - not just politicians. Secondly, as Bacik must obviously be well aware as an Oireachtas member, there is a very heavily subsidised creche in Leinster House.

Lenny Lovett

gizmo555 wrote: »

This is a complete red herring that Bacik keeps raising. First of all, childcare is an expensive and difficult issue for all working parents - not just politicians. Secondly, as Bacik must obviously be well aware as an Oireachtas member, there is a very heavily subsidised creche in Leinster House.

Absolutely, and many many people manage to arrange child care and pay for it themselves.... And they earn far less than a TD!