Replacing uPVC Window Handles...

WetDaddy

The windows downstairs in our house have locks on the handles. The windows upstairs do not - however, our 14 month old is now getting more and more interested in them! So, I'm hoping I can remove the current handles and replace with handles with locks.

I've seen a few online, but I'm concerned about the compatibility. They're double-glazed uPVC windows. Are there universal handles available?

The only details I can get on the windows is from the printing on the side of the frames, which says: "Vista therm bs/en 1279 km 23809 372422-24 431x541"

Thanks in advance!

Merch

I cant say I know about windows but i got some replacement handles myself,
Also while I order stuff online, there are certain things that I will only buy in a shop here,
handles being weighty enough items, posting back if they didnt suit might cost, I got mine in a place near woodies on the longmile road (in an industrial/commercial units) on the left going towards clondalkin, cant recal more than that as it was a while back.

mlmcelligott

try to find out who installed them and contact those guys. We have had all the handles replaced on all the windows twice over the last 15 years free by the manufacturer. They might be still under warrenty

RKQ

WetDaddy wrote: »

. The windows upstairs do not - however, our 14 month old is now getting more and more interested in them! So, I'm hoping I can remove the current handles and replace with handles with locks.

The upstairs windows do not have locks on them because it is illegal to have window locks on bedroom windows. The risk of a house fire is far more likely than your child falling out the window.

Its easy & cheap to install "inhibitors" or child proof mechanisms to a bedroom window - preventing the window from opening fully. Well worth installing these instead of key locks - legal too.

Something like this:-
http://www.babysecurity.co.uk/products/1669/Clippasafe-Window-Lock-Childproofing-Window-Lock.html

Merch

RKQ wrote: »

The upstairs windows do not have locks on them because it is illegal to have window locks on bedroom windows. The risk of a house fire is far more likely than your child falling out the window.

Its easy & cheap to install "inhibitors" or child proof mechanisms to a bedroom window - preventing the window from opening fully. Well worth installing these instead of key locks - legal too.

Something like this:-
http://www.babysecurity.co.uk/products/1669/Clippasafe-Window-Lock-Childproofing-Window-Lock.html

Are you sure? since when? do you have any link info on that.
I myself have locks on the bedroom windows, they were there when I moved in.
I'd say there is a pretty the chance of a child climbing and falling out a window,even only a chance is enough to concern me to secure my windows in some way, but those inhibitors look like they could be undone very easily by an inquisitive child.I dont have any stats so I cant compare that to fires.

RKQ

Merch wrote: »

Are you sure?

Yes, 100% positive.

Merch wrote: »

since when?

Building Control Act 1990, in force circa 1st July 1992 - See Technical Guidance Document B.

Merch wrote: »

I myself have locks on the bedroom windows, they were there when I moved in.

Totally illegal, who signed the Certificate of Compliance with Building Regulations for your home?
Non-compliance with Build Reg law is not an excuse, as the building owner you are responsible for compliance.
Worst case scenario - your house insurance could be void because you have illegal locks on your window. I'm not a Solicitor but technically you could be guilty of manslaughter if someone died in your house in a house fire, because they were trapped behind locked windows.

Merch wrote: »

.I dont have any stats so I cant compare that to fires.

How many people died in 2010 in Ireland in house fires?
I remember at least 5 cases but not one case of a child falling from a window in 2010. Now please correct me if I wrong, but house fires are more common that child falls from window. Unfortunately we insure our houses against fire not falls. Of course the Regs are there to protect life, child restrictors do work and can be opened by an adult in a smoke filled room.

For you own safety and peace of mind, unlock your bedroom windows - better to be safe than sorry.

Hell Toupee

+1 RKQ Windows should be fitted with restrictors with stop the window opening enough for a child to fit through. And locks which require a removable key are illegal (although I have seen this regulation ignored in plenty of houses I've worked in.)

Here's the section of the building regulations which deals with this post:
Building Regulations 2006:
Technical Guidance Document B:

"The opening section of the window should be
secured by means of fastenings which are readily
openable from the inside and should be fitted
with safety restrictors. Safety restrictors can be
either an integral part of the window operating
gear or separate items of hardware which can be
fitted to a window at the time of manufacture or
at installation. Restrictors should operate so that
they limit the initial movement of an opening
section to not more than 100 mm. Lockable
handles or restrictors, which can only be
released by removable keys or other tools,

should not be fitted to window opening sections.............."

Merch

My home is 14 years old, has original windows except for the handles i replaced due to wear and tear, It looks very much like all the properties around this area have the same windows, excluding those that replaced their windows.

I have no idea who signed the building compliance?
Do you have a link to that info, I cannot find the section you are referring to
Also you say you are basing your opinion on how many homes/people have died from house fires you heard have ompared to kids jumping/falling windows by accident.
I just dont know as I havent heard exact figures. Ive heard of deaths from house fires but usually of smoke inhalation not being unable to get out AND one incident years ago where a child fell out of a window, years ago

I can see where safety should come first but if I had children Id be more concerned about them getting out than fires

paddy147

Ikea in Ballymun sell child restrictors for windows,they are well made and very cheap to buy.

Hell Toupee

Here you go: Page 57 of document
http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

RKQ

Merch wrote: »

My home is 14 years old, has original windows except for the handles i replaced due to wear and tear

You replaced the original handles with non-compliant handles. You are legally liable.

Thanks Hell toupee for the reference in post 7 above:-
Building Regulations 2006: Technical Guidance Document B:

"Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be
released by removable keys or other tools,
should not be fitted to window opening sections.............."

Merch wrote: »

I can see where safety should come first but if I had children Id be more concerned about them getting out than fire

Your feelings are not relevant, I'm afraid - the Law of the land must be obeyed by all Citizens. Tell it to the Judge. Non-compliance is futile.

Merch

RKQ wrote: »

You replaced the original handles with non-compliant handles. You are legally liable.

Thanks Hell toupee for the reference in post 7 above:-
Building Regulations 2006: Technical Guidance Document B:

"Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be
released by removable keys or other tools,
should not be fitted to window opening sections.............."


Your feelings are not relevant, I'm afraid - the Law of the land must be obeyed by all Citizens. Tell it to the Judge. Non-compliance is futile.

I am looking through the link provided by another poster, there are a number of references to windows, none of which I have found yet has anything on locks with or without keys as they are spread over the document.
Also it says its 2006 and there are sections which refer to pre-existing builds, which mine was and also the two handles which I replaced were also before that time, either way I wont be liable unless they try drag my corpse into court as I live in the house!
Now if instead of thanking other posters for providing the link, perhaps you can guide me to the page that says keys to save me searching every reference to locks, windows , emergency etc on the doc
Im not saying it isnt the case but I havent found it, plus I am inclined to think pre existing builds might be excluded, ie your ref without link I went to the statute books online and found no reference to locks and keys
Building control act 1990

Merch

ok Ive found a section reffering to locks, I'll put the section in,
however i just want to look at pre existing builds and if you have a link to building controls act 1990 that has something about locks?
As my house came with locks in every window all floors, that pre dated my build by more than 6 years.

edit its page 59 of the document 1.5.6

RKQ

Merch wrote: »

Now if instead of thanking other posters for providing the link, perhaps you can guide me to the page that says keys to save me searching every reference to locks, windows , emergency etc on the doc

Hell Toupee & I have both quoted TGD B above :eek:
Now instead of writing post maybe you could read the quote from the relevant document.

Merch wrote: »

I am inclined to think pre existing builds might be excluded, ...Building control act 1990

You said your house is 14 years old, meaning it was built circa 1996, it is therefore NOT exempt from the Building Regulations 1992,( TGD B 1992).
Your window locks are illegal. I am not here to debate Building Reg law 1992 -2008. I have offered free advice to the OP.

Merch

RKQ wrote: »

Hell Toupee & I have both quoted TGD B above :eek:
Now instead of writing post maybe you could read the quote from the relevant document.


You said your house is 14 years old, meaning it was built circa 1996, it is therefore NOT exempt from the Building Regulations 1992,( TGD B 1992).
Your window locks are illegal. I am not here to debate Building Reg law 1992 -2008. I have offered free advice to the OP.

Look, as I am not familiar with the document and you seem to claim you are, why not provide a specific paragraph???
I am currently using the serach on the link provided by the other poster and there were numerous refs to windows and I trawled them all to find what you were reffering to (in his link)
Now if you know where it is? why not point to the specific ref, as I said I cant find a reference to it in the 1990 ref you suggested, you linked nothing?

Merch

So? still no word of a section from you?
I'm looking at the act in the statute books online

Building control act 1990
Between 1-25 sections can see nothing to refer to technical guidance document B

So which section is it in? its your reference

RKQ

Merch wrote: »

Now if you know where it is? why not point to the specific ref, as I said I cant find a reference to it in the 1990 ref you suggested, you linked nothing?

The Building Control Act 1990, referes to Technical Guidance Documents A-M.
My own reference would be that TGD B 1991, was revised in 1997 & 2006.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

You will need to look at Technical Guidance Document B, 1991 which became law circa 1st June 1992. This document may not be available for download as it has been superceded. (1997 & 2006)
This TGD B was revised in 2006. Page 58 section 1.5.6 (e) Windows for Escape or Rescue.

"Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections."

Q.E.D

Merch

RKQ wrote: »

The Building Control Act 1990, it referes to Technical Guidance Documents A-M. My own reference would be that TGD B 1991, was revised in 1997 & 2006.

http://www.environ.ie/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1640,en.pdf

You will need to look at Technical Guidance Document B, 1991 which became law circa 1st July 1992. This document may not be available for download as it has been superceded. (1997 & 2006)
This TGD B was revised in 2006. Page 58 section 1.5.6 (e) Windows for Escape or Rescue.

"Lockable handles or restrictors, which can only be released by removable keys or other tools, should not be fitted to window opening sections."

Q.E.D

I can see that information in the 2006 document linked by someone else here, which on page 59 refers to windows and locks, but I was looking for it in a 1990 version of the same document you were referring to. I simply couldnt locate the TGD B for 1990 and in the statute books there is no link to TGD B for 1990 or 2006.
I can see from the statute books the act of 1990 came into effect in July 1992, but the link you provided here goes to the 2006 tech guidance doc

Im not saying it isnt in the 1990 version but until i can see it in black and white I will have to take your word for it, though Id prefer to see it in writing.

RKQ

Merch wrote: »

Im not saying it isnt in the 1990 version but until i can see it in black and white I will have to take your word for it, though Id prefer to see it in writing.

Merch we seem to be going around the houses here. I'm not sure what you want me to do. My advice is free, so you can take it or leave it.

You could take my word for it, or you could retain a professional and pay for their advice. Or you could ring your Local Authority Fire Officier / Building Control Inspector for their advice.

I'd post you a copy of TGD B 1992 if you really want to see it in black & white, just PM your postal address (if you must). But I'm sure you'll find TGD B 1992 somewhere if you google it.

Merch

Black and white on the screen would have done me but its not that important to me, if you say its there then I can accept that, it was just that your refs and link were taking me to/going to stuff that didnt have info on 1990/1992

As yopu say we are going around the houses


The Op wants new handles, Im sure if they locate handles with locks then ones without will be available.

Either way, I find it unusual that such a thing exists but isnt implemented at the construction phase, I've seen plenty of houses with locks in the upstairs windows that are post 1990/92 and have been told by a window installer/glazier and someone that does alarms that it is best to remove keys from locked windows especially over extensions as it gives a potential burglar a route of escape, that doesnt mean they are right but makes me wonder how many other regulations are/can be ignored.

metalgear2k2

Having worked for a large window and door installer (in the service dept) I took a lot of abuse over this building reg, its been there a long time, some companies enforce it some don’t. From my experience people will do whatever suits them regardless of rules, the company I worked for would not take any responsibility for people fitting locking handles to fire escape windows, they would always have non locking handles on installation but if someone wanted to put locking handles on they could buy them and fit them themselves.

Completely against the law mind.

kitser

the regulation on lockable handles only came into effect a few years ago. to imply that people are lawbreakers for having fourteen year old handles with locks is absurd and way off the mark. It's like something out of robo cop.
it is a regulation. covered by an Act of Law. An act is not a law, it's acting as law, and requires your consent before it can be applied as law.

child locks are good - some are worse than a lockable handle. i wonder how long it will be before we read of someone perishing in a house fire because they were trapped by a child lock?

metalgear2k2

kitser wrote: »

the regulation on lockable handles only came into effect a few years ago. to imply that people are lawbreakers for having fourteen year old handles with locks is absurd and way off the mark. It's like something out of robo cop.
it is a regulation. covered by an Act of Law. An act is not a law, it's acting as law, and requires your consent before it can be applied as law.

child locks are good - some are worse than a lockable handle. i wonder how long it will be before we read of someone perishing in a house fire because they were trapped by a child lock?

It is against the law to fit locking handles to fire escape windows, all bedroom windows are considered fire escape windows, this has been the case for at least the past 10 years. Fact.

RKQ

metalgear2k2 wrote: »

It is against the law to fit locking handles to fire escape windows, all bedroom windows are considered fire escape windows, this has been the case for at least the past 10 years. Fact.

100% agree.
If I'm retained by a Sellers Solicitor to issue a Certificate of Compliance with Building Control on an existing house, I check many things. If I see window locks on bedroom escape windows, built after 1992 then I must highlight this Non-compliance issue. This protects the prospective Buyer.

Non-compliance is futile, the Building Regulations are black and white, you either comply or you don't. (So don't shoot the messanger kitser)

finisklin

Can someone help me with this......was in the process of changing the window handles and I have broken the actual mechanism that the handle goes into, in the window. The actual rectangle bolt that goes into the window will go in but won't turn. I think I forced it, jammed too much.

It looks like the problem is with the fitting in the window itself, the edges of the rectangle receptor appear frayed so that the handle won't turn.

I hope I have described this problem correctly.....I am guessing that I may have to replace the window. My only problem is that I can't open the window now as neither handle will work!:(

Any advice greatly accepted.....

finisklin

Just to clarify this as I may have confused people.....the handle fits in to the window, however the rectangle mechanism won't engage with the window fitting. The handle will turn 360 degrees, for example, but the window won't open.........

I think I have made a right ham of this......:(

youtheman

Was in a hotel in the UK, must be over 15 years ago, and they had a brilliant safety feature on the window. You opened the window as normal, and when it got a few inches open it locked automatically (hard to describe, but the rail part of the hinge has a slot cut in it and the sliding part automatically caught in the slot). To open the window, you pressed the sliding part to allow it pass the slot and the window opened normally.

Never saw it here in Ireland, kind of expected to see if a few years after coming across it in the UK, but I thought it was brilliant idea.

Merch

finisklin wrote: »

Just to clarify this as I may have confused people.....the handle fits in to the window, however the rectangle mechanism won't engage with the window fitting. The handle will turn 360 degrees, for example, but the window won't open.........

I think I have made a right ham of this......:(

Any pictures?

youtheman wrote: »

Was in a hotel in the UK, must be over 15 years ago, and they had a brilliant safety feature on the window. You opened the window as normal, and when it got a few inches open it locked automatically (hard to describe, but the rail part of the hinge has a slot cut in it and the sliding part automatically caught in the slot). To open the window, you pressed the sliding part to allow it pass the slot and the window opened normally.

Never saw it here in Ireland, kind of expected to see if a few years after coming across it in the UK, but I thought it was brilliant idea.

Any pictures?

youtheman

Unfortunately not, but I'll sketch something out 'cause it was so simple and brilliant that it stuck me brain

metalgear2k2

Thats called a window restrictor

muffler

I've read the posts here and Im a little surprised at some of the comments. Yes the old style window handle that needed to be locked with a key is not now acceptable but the auto self locking/push button type spindle handles are acceptable. See here for pics.