London to Frankfurt in 4.5hrs

Lenny Lovett

From Daily Mail:

German train giant to spark price war with airlines as it speeds 200mph express from Frankfurt to London

By Ray Massey, Transport Editor
Last updated at 4:17 PM on 20th September 2010

• Bullet train set to arrive at St Pancras next month in trial run
• One way fares could be as little as £49

The nation renowned for making the trains run on time is to launch a 'dry run' trial for a 200mph high-speed cross-channel link between London and Frankfurt.
German railway giant Deutsche Bahn - which has already bought up a number of UK train operators - has now set its sights on competing with the airlines and arch rival Eurostar between the UK and the Continent.
The company is to bring one its latest German 'bullet trains' through the Channel tunnel and into the capital's St Pancras International terminal on October 19 to showcase its plans for a high speed link between the two financial centres from December 2013 - sparking a new price war.

Bullet across the Channel: The 200mph 'Bullet Train' planned for a new express service between Britain and Germany

The aim is to cut the train travelling time from Central London to Frankfurt, nicknamed 'Bankfurt' in Germany because it is the nation's major financial centre, from around six hours to between four and five hours.
A direct non-stop route is achievable in 3 hours 55 minutes. This will compete with approximately 4 and a half hours needed to fly there, once travel to the airport, check-in time and the 1 hour 30 minute flight time are put together.
The extra competition could also mean lower fares. Experts say a one way trip could be between £39 and £49. The Germans are considering stops in Cologne and Brussels and Lille.
The centre-to-centre travel will also mean business travellers and tourists can relax for longer in their seats or work via wi-fi rather than enduring the hassle of airline check-in, security and trips to and from the airport.

Enlarge The planned Frankfurt=London route: Using the 200mph 'bullet trains' should improve air travel times between the two financial centres by about half an hour

However the high speed German -built Inter City Express (ICE) trains will first have to pass stringent safety tests to pass through the Channel Tunnel - including evacuations.
Deutsche Bahn chief executive Ruediger Grube is understood to be arriving in London on the dry run trip, marking the significance of the event.
It highlights how far international relations have moved. Seventy years ago, at the height of the Battle of Britain, the narrow strip of water was all that separated Britain from German invasion. Today the nation which was defeated is now running much of Britain's railways.
The news comes as UK Transport Secretary Phillip Hammond this week visits areas in the Chilterns and the Midlands affected by a controversial high speed rail link plan linking London to the North - which would feed into the Continental high speed rail network. The Tories back a high speed link to the North, but are critical of the route set out by Labour.
Last month French and German transport ministries released a joint statement saying they had agreed to work together on changes to European rules covering rail and air transport..
Eurostar launched in 1994 and now carries 9 million passengers a year between London, Paris and Brussels.
Rail analyst Chris Meek said the German bullet-train would increase traffic between London and the Continent:'And the main source of the traffic will be diversion from air.'

Fratton Fred

What a typical Daily Mail article, it's about the Germans, so we'd better mention the war:rolleyes:

This is great if it goes ahead, it would be a major plus for the tunnel if they can open up the number of destinations. it would be nice to see them maybe avoid london as well at some point and go from Birmingham or Manchester.

Maybe even Holyhead one day:D

L1011

I doubt they'll go beyond London until HS2 gets built (e.g. the 5th of Never at this stage).

Chris_5339762

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk

Seriously though, this is a great idea. Needs more countries running along the Channel Tunnel.

Oliver1985

Maybe they will build a tunnel and Run a service Dublin to Frankfurt direct

dfx-

Well if they follow that line in the picture, they'll bypass Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof by several hundred km.. :pac:

L1011

dfx- wrote: »

Well if they follow that line in the picture, they'll bypass Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof by several hundred km.. :pac:

Are they intending to serve 'Frankfurt' Hahn then?

oharach

dfx- wrote: »

Well if they follow that line in the picture, they'll bypass Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof by several hundred km.. :pac:

Looks to be about Würzburg

It would be nice to see direct running further afield to Munich as well, but I guess the ICE is so frequent on that stretch that it wouldn't make much of a difference.

About time someone looks at London-Amsterdam as well.

dfx-

MYOB wrote: »

Are they intending to serve 'Frankfurt' Hahn then?

"Frankfurt East"

Breezer

dfx- wrote: »

"Frankfurt East"

Frankfurt West actually. Very very West. We should build Dublin Airport Terminal 3 in Claremorris and let Ryanair fly there. The Western Rail Corridor could link to it.

dfx-

Well yes Hahn is very very west, but the line above appears to be serving very very east of Frankfurt. Almost as far east as hahn is west

Oliver1985

After travelling 3 times on eurostar I would rather rail then fly so much better comfort and get up and walk around!!!
Only thing dont buy the food on the train its day light robbery :eek:

Cookie_Monster

Been on those I.C.E. trains twice, the seats are huge and comfy.

Oliver1985

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Been on those I.C.E. trains twice, the seats are huge and comfy.

I.C.E , i looked at that quickly thought you said I.C.R :D:D

foggy_lad

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Only thing dont buy the food on the train its day light robbery :eek:

must be rail gourmet?

Oliver1985

foggy_lad wrote: »

must be rail gourmet?

Not sure who it was :eek:

Fratton Fred

MYOB wrote: »

I doubt they'll go beyond London until HS2 gets built (e.g. the 5th of Never at this stage).

I kow, wishful thinking though.

If they open to the tunnel up to other operators though, the options could be endless.

schemingbohemia

They can't not open the tunnel up to other operators EU law and all that, innit.

rp

dfx- wrote: »

Well if they follow that line in the picture, they'll bypass Frankfurt Hauptbahnhof by several hundred km.. :pac:

Not a bad thing in itself, unless they end up in Stuttgart.

purplepanda

schemingbohemia wrote: »

They can't not open the tunnel up to other operators EU law and all that, innit.

Eurostar have been trying to keep the Germans out of the channel rail market for years. Prices can be very expensive, often even much more than air travel, if booked a few days before travel especially at busy periods. DB will compete against the Eurostar cartel which will benefit the passenger.

Often travel to Europe from London can be cheaper if booked to destinations like Lille & then TGV to Paris via the SNCF website for example. Eurostar can charge £300-400 plus for short notice bookings & then when you travel the train is half full!!!!:mad:

I know people have actually got the St Pancras - Dover Javelin high speed services & then get the ferries to Belguim & France traveling onwards by local trains & saved themselves hundreds of pounds when traveling at short notice.:D

Oliver1985

purplepanda wrote: »

Eurostar have been trying to keep the Germans out of the channel rail market for years. Prices can be very expensive, often even much more than air travel, if booked a few days before travel especially at busy periods. DB will compete against the Eurostar cartel which will benefit the passenger.

Often travel to Europe from London can be cheaper if booked to destinations like Lille & then TGV to Paris via the SNCF website for example. Eurostar can charge £300-400 plus for short notice bookings & then when you travel the train is half full!!!!:mad:

I know people have actually got the St Pancras - Dover Javelin high speed services & then get the ferries to Belguim & France traveling onwards by local trains & saved themselves hundreds of pounds when traveling at short notice.:D

Member the ash cloud people paid 1000pounds for a one way !!! :eek:

oharach

Mods: can we change the title of the thread to '4.5 hours' – the article clearly states that it will be 4-5 hours.

monument

Original article from The Guardian with more and better detail...

Also includes the views of Mark Smith aka The Man in Seat Sixty-One (after the 'Faster than flying' sub headline):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/19/london-frankfurt-train-high-speed

oharach

The article is better, yes, but the picture is of an ICE 1, which can't and won't be used in Britain.

I emailed them yesterday, but they haven't changed it yet.

-Chris-

oharach wrote: »

Mods: can we change the title of the thread to '4.5 hours' – the article clearly states that it will be 4-5 hours.

Am I reading it wrong or is it not saying 3hrs 55mins?

oharach

-Chris- wrote: »

Am I reading it wrong or is it not saying 3hrs 55mins?

In typical Daily Mail fashion, it's confusing

3h55 is a direct run. But this won't happen:

The aim is to cut the train travelling time from Central London to Frankfurt, ... from around six hours to between four and five hours.
A direct non-stop route is achievable in 3 hours 55 minutes. ... The Germans are considering stops in Cologne and Brussels and Lille.

-Chris-

oharach wrote: »

In typical Daily Mail fashion, it's confusing

3h55 is a direct run. But this won't happen:

OK, we'll go with 4.5hrs.

Thread title changed.

Propellerhead

I'm surprised noone has leapt in yet suggesting that a bus would be a better option :rolleyes:

amacachi

Propellerhead wrote: »

I'm surprised noone has leapt in yet suggesting that a bus would be a better option :rolleyes:

What kind of superbus have the Europeans developed?

Cookie_Monster

Propellerhead wrote: »

I'm surprised noone has leapt in yet suggesting that a bus would be a better option :rolleyes:

clearly a bus would be the best option for this route

-Chris-

amacachi wrote: »

What kind of superbus have the Europeans developed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPpBGsFddao