The FF spin thread

Colonel Sanders

Was listening to The Last Word yesterday and Tony Killeen was on

He said that part of the reason bond yields were increasing was that the markets thought a general election could be approaching and the prospect of a FG/Labour coalition was spooking the market

One of the best pieces of spin I've ever heard and that's saying something having being exposed to the hide under the coats and hope everything will be OK "strategy" of FF

Got me thinking about an idea for a thread to chart the useless spin that FF dish out instead of any form of action

Colonel Sanders

Clowen's "ebs and flows" comment is obviously worthy of a mention

Colonel Sanders

Really wish I could remember who said it but I recall a Primetime from a while back (probably over a year) when a FF TD appeared and blamed the Rainbow Coalition for todays problems

Said that their refusal to implement water charges resulted in a lack of revenue sources for the government "forcing" them to inflate a property bubble to pay for the ballooning cost of public services :rolleyes:

Can anyone shed any light?

ei.sdraob

the worst part is not the spin

the worst part is that there are people in this country who fall for it and still support FF, the 20% or so of the diehard support who are completely oblivious what is happening

Colonel Sanders

The people's champion of SCAMA, Frank "40 Gaffs" Fahey (warning, this man is an idiot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQjwG2SW-F0

Lest we forget, Frank didn't even know the NAMA bonds paid a coupon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJKulH2P1yE

Of course Frank has no vested interest

gurramok

And when they throw out the 'economy is on a growth path' when they quote GDP figures only.
Forgetting of course GDP is heavily affected by MNC's here and GNP is the real measure of an Irish economy growing. (that figure hasn't climbed yet as far as i remember)

Colonel Sanders

gurramok wrote: »

And when they throw out the 'economy is on a growth path' when they quote GDP figures only.
Forgetting of course GDP is heavily affected by MNC's here and GNP is the real measure of an Irish economy growing. (that figure hasn't climbed yet as far as i remember)

It might still be shrinking marginally

MrDarcy

The next trick these absolute no hopers are going to pull on this country will be the removal of Cowen, and a spin campaign to "give us a renewed imputus, vitality and a clear sense of hope" with the like's of new leader in the form of Lenihan, Martin, Hanifin or Ahern.

This of course will all be a sop to the gullies of Ireland to stave off a general election which would likely mean that the whole f*cking lot of them would likely never see the insides of the Dail again.

What we need to do now is two things:

(1) Start an immediate campaign of blatant civil disobedience, in every way that we possibly can, we should be frustrating and obstructing the ability of this government to function operationally. Our end should be an immediate general election.

I'm starting to come around to LiamByrne's view on this forum that even though Enda Kenny is a useless candidate for Taoiseach, we don't necessarily have to elect him and that whatever the next best alternative is, we need to get FF dismantled as a national political entity.

And as for the imminent removal of Cowen and the presentation of yet ANOTHER unelected pampered pr*ck to run the country, if this happens again, we should start thrashing the place.

paddyland

MrDarcy wrote: »

The next trick these absolute no hopers are going to pull on this country will be the removal of Cowen, and a spin campaign to "give us a renewed imputus, vitality and a clear sense of hope" with the like's of new leader in the form of Lenihan, Martin, Hanifin or Ahern.

This of course will all be a sop to the gullies of Ireland to stave off a general election which would likely mean that the whole f*cking lot of them would likely never see the insides of the Dail again.

What we need to do now is two things:

(1) Start an immediate campaign of blatant civil disobedience, in every way that we possibly can, we should be frustrating and obstructing the ability of this government to function operationally. Our end should be an immediate general election.

I'm starting to come around to LiamByrne's view on this forum that even though Enda Kenny is a useless candidate for Taoiseach, we don't necessarily have to elect him and that whatever the next best alternative is, we need to get FF dismantled as a national political entity.

This last for me is the crucial bit, and it cannot be repeated often enough.

It is not enough simply to vote FF out at the next election, and see them sit on the opposition benches for four years trying to undermine everything anyone else does to try to clean up the mess.

No, FF need to be dismantled, removed, destroyed, eradicated, finished, annihilated, FOR GOOD. They serve NO purpose to this country only to divert the good of the country and channel it towards a small elitist group of people, and everything they stand for is self preservation, at the expense of everyone else.

We have had NO Taoiseach for the last three years, what we have had is Cowen acting exclusively as leader of FF, working exclusively towards the protection and preservation of his FF party, at the complete expense of the job he was put forward to do as Taoiseach, the protection and preservation of this whole state.

NO leader of FF will do ANYTHING in power other than the furtherance of FF ambition and power, power for it's own sake, while neglecting the greater good of the state as a whole. Matter a damn if the country is covered in tumbleweed, as long as FF supporters are looked after. That is divisive and ruinous, but it is all they understand. All of them.

Colonel Sanders

Bond auction "a success"? Signs of investor confidence in Ireland inc?

Karl Whelan disagrees

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/09/21/implied-default-rates/

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/09/22/how-yields-are-set-in-bond-auctions/

liammur

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Bond auction "a success"? Signs of investor confidence in Ireland inc?

Karl Whelan disagrees

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/09/21/implied-default-rates/

http://www.irisheconomy.ie/index.php/2010/09/22/how-yields-are-set-in-bond-auctions/

These politicians are only fit for shovelling muck around a farm.

mikemac

MrDarcy wrote: »

And as for the imminent removal of Cowen and the presentation of yet ANOTHER unelected pampered pr*ck to run the country, if this happens again, we should start thrashing the place.

What's this about, Brian Cowen was elected the same way as any other Taoiseach

He wasn't leader going into the last election but where are you getting unelected from?

SeaFields

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

Got me thinking about an idea for a thread to chart the useless spin that FF dish out instead of any form of action

Brian Cowen had a cold/ was hoarse/ is nasel/ is not a morning person...

He was definitely not drunk or hungover

freewheeler

SeaFields wrote: »

Brian Cowen had a cold/ was hoarse/ is nasel/ is not a morning person...

He was definitely not drunk or hungover

Yeah right..strangely enough though there was no sign of a cold/hoarseness/etc. as he and his goons merrily partied the night away..oblivious to the mess that they have made of our country. I hope they're proud of themselves...

scr123

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the worst part is not the spin

the worst part is that there are people in this country who fall for it and still support FF, the 20% or so of the diehard support who are completely oblivious what is happening

Not a diehard supporter of FF but a diehard opponent of of the awful atlernative to FF. Certainly not oblivious to whats happening to economy either, problems are there to be solved is my life long motto. Waving a wand doesnt solve problems and we will in this country rise again to make progress that will benefit the people as a whole. People over 40 years of age know in their hearts of hearts that we have come a long way and are facing our difficulties at a starting point much superior to previous recessions

MrDarcy

PeterIanStaker

Dont know if this merits its own thread or would fit in the "spin" one but here it is: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0923/economy.html

"The Minister for Finance has rejected any suggestion that the Irish economy is on its way to a 'double dip' recession. His comments came after figures, published today, showed that the economy shrank in the second quarter of this year."


So are we screwed or what? I'm not an economist but I am a cynic, so if Lenihan deines it's going to happen . . . .

zootroid

Speaking at the National Ploughing Championships, Taoiseach Brian Cowen rejected any suggestion that Ireland was slipping back into recession.

The Fianna Fáil leader said 'the full year as opposed to quarterly accounts' would give a real picture of where Ireland is going.

Imagine a company taking that sort of outlook. They would be out of business before they know it. That's why (successful) companies don't wait around that long to make decisions and change things.

Colonel Sanders

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Dont know if this merits its own thread or would fit in the "spin" one but here it is: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0923/economy.html

"The Minister for Finance has rejected any suggestion that the Irish economy is on its way to a 'double dip' recession. His comments came after figures, published today, showed that the economy shrank in the second quarter of this year."


So are we screwed or what? I'm not an economist but I am a cynic, so if Lenihan deines it's going to happen . . . .

Lenny says no "double dip"

The FT leads with "Ireland Debt Worries hit stocks"

My usual stance is take what Lenihan says and assume he's wrong. Been the way to go since he became Minister for finance

Colonel Sanders

gurramok wrote: »

And when they throw out the 'economy is on a growth path' when they quote GDP figures only.
Forgetting of course GDP is heavily affected by MNC's here and GNP is the real measure of an Irish economy growing. (that figure hasn't climbed yet as far as i remember)

PeterIanStaker wrote: »

Dont know if this merits its own thread or would fit in the "spin" one but here it is: http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0923/economy.html

"The Minister for Finance has rejected any suggestion that the Irish economy is on its way to a 'double dip' recession. His comments came after figures, published today, showed that the economy shrank in the second quarter of this year."


So are we screwed or what? I'm not an economist but I am a cynic, so if Lenihan deines it's going to happen . . . .

Lenny strikes again

We've turned a corner alright :mad:

Colonel Sanders

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/23/irish-economy-double-dip-recession

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11397875

Bloody foreigners, talking down the economy and not letting all those "international commentators" who worship Lenny & FF have their say

ei.sdraob

we turned another corner apparently
add a new word to the spin machine > "turnaround"

MINISTER FOR Finance Brian Lenihan has attempted to calm fears about the recent surge in the cost of Irish borrowing, saying there had been a remarkable turnaround in the Irish economy over the past year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0925/1224279659714.html


so many corners but a trend is evident

Colonel Sanders

ei.sdraob wrote: »

we turned another corner apparently
add a new word to the spin machine > "turnaround"



http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0925/1224279659714.html


so many corners but a trend is evident

Beat me to it! Was just about to post something similar!

Colonel Sanders

Market concerns on funding overdone - Corrigan

FT Alphaville rubbishes his comments

Nice snappy line to end

Not that we should really expect Irish policymakers to take preventing expensive problems seriously, of course.

We are officially a laughing stock

doc_17

ei.sdraob wrote: »

the worst part is not the spin

the worst part is that there are people in this country who fall for it and still support FF, the 20% or so of the diehard support who are completely oblivious what is happening

Ah but sure they fixed the pothole in front a me house!

Liam Byrne

scr123 wrote: »

Not a diehard supporter of FF

Er, is your memory as faulty as Ahern's & O'Deas ?

You are the same scr123 who started a thread about "Why I remain staunch FF", aren't you ?

As for the FF spin topic, I had to laugh yesterday listening to The Last Word, where FF were trying to silence criticism by pointing out that homegrown media comments can be "heard around the world".

I don't remember them highlighting that fact when Cowen made an eejit of himself ? Didn't they claim just a week or so ago that no-one would have noticed if Coveney hadn't put it on the internet ?

Stunning double-standards, as usual, completely ignoring anything they claimed previously when it suits them.

Actually, on that basis and the above post, it's no wonder scr123 is a staunch supporter......(s)he fits in perfectly.

ei.sdraob

doc_17 wrote: »

Ah but sure they fixed the pothole in front a me house!

for some reason there are out of sudden alot of major roadworks and resurfacing on many Galway country roads lately, and the council are meant to be broke

is there an election coming up or something

RealityCheck

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/cowen-urges-people-to-spend-more-to-offset-economic-setback-474843.html

Cowen urges people to spend more to offset economic setback

wrote:

Taoiseach Brian Cowen insisted today that people must start spending more cash as he dismissed claims that Ireland was heading for a double-dip recession.

And now my personal favourite.

wrote:

National output dropped a significant 1.2% but Mr Cowen rejected claims that the country was slipping back into a second prolonged downturn.

“I don’t accept that analysis, based on this second quarterly report,” he said.

“You have to look at the full year to get the best possible estimate of how things will go.”

Is that not the most ridiculous statement ever? Does he understand what an estimate is?

So what we should all spend, spend, spend because of the **** he made of the economy. There's a reason why people with some money won't spend it. It happens to reside in Government Buildings.

RealityCheck

ei.sdraob wrote: »

for some reason there are out of sudden alot of major roadworks and resurfacing on many Galway country roads lately, and the council are meant to be broke

is there an election coming up or something

They threw a bit of tar on my own qiuet country road in Galway too. Who'd have believed we were in a recession at all . I was working with the council for a couple of months this year (unpaid might I add :cool:) and their road maintenance budget was spent and they were broke.

doc_17

Spend it all and go asking for more! That's the way they do things.

Colonel Sanders

Nice one from the paper of record:

Tougher budget in prospect as economy shrinks

GOVERNMENT’S budget difficulties increased yesterday as new figures showed the economy contracted in the second quarter of the year and that growth in the first quarter was less than previously estimated.

Very strong growth of exports of both goods and services was not sufficient to prevent the overall economy contracting again. Gross domestic product (GDP) fell by 1.2 per cent compared with the first quarter.

Analysts had been expecting the economy to grow.

The eurozone as a whole recorded growth of 1 per cent for the three months to June compared with the first quarter of 2010.

Ireland and Greece were the only two economies in the 16-member eurozone bloc to shrink in the second three months of the year. This accentuates Ireland’s outlier status and could make it more vulnerable to a loss of investor confidence.

Despite the contraction in the economy, there was no sell-off of Government debt after the figures were released at 11am.

Yields on Government bonds did rise earlier in the morning, but that appeared to be contagion from abroad rather than concerns about Ireland.

As I posted earlier the FT lead with a headline "Ireland Debt Worries hit stocks" on Thursday

I must have missed the "Ireland falls on debt/stocks worries elsewhere" :mad:

Colonel Sanders

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=FIJ20090831.xml&Ex=All&Page=2

It is important to note that the bulk of the bonds in issue by Irish banks are not subordinated debt but debt of a far more fundamental character. They are ordinary senior debt bonds entered into by the banks. There is a perception in the media that senior bondholders are natural risk takers, aiming to achieve high rewards for taking high risk. That is not the case. Senior bondholders are usually and typically pension funds, insurance companies and other long-term providers of debt. I have pointed out in recent days that they also include credit unions. These bondholders provide loans for viable entities on the basis that they are senior to other creditors and are secure. In other words, they are in the same position as depositors. These same senior bond debt investors also buy Government debt and are an important source for keeping the economy funded. These senior bondholders are guaranteed under the Government guarantee scheme. Any suggestion these parties should be invited to consider a reduction in the amount repayable to them would have catastrophic effects for the banking system, the funding of the State and the wider economy. Many of these senior bondholders are trading companies in Irish commercial life with substantial numbers of employees.

But of course not long later

Credit union body angered at Anglo Irish link

The organisation representing credit unions has said that it invested just €99 million in Anglo Irish Bank bonds, and has called on the government to ‘‘cease referring to these investments as justification for guarantees and the continuation of Anglo Irish Bank’’.