GCSE is the same as a leaving cert

cloneslad

I want to apply to do a PGCE in England.

I have discussed my qualifications in previous posts but for new readers and those who don't remember (1st class honours degree and a masters plus 3 years teaching experience in ESL in Korea)

Anyway, to get on the course in England you need a C grade in English and Math in your GCSE. As I am from Monaghan I didn't do GCSE.

In my leaving I did honours English and got more than the C required. I did pass math and only got a D1. (I didn't study much in school and spent my time playing rugby)

Anyway, I called the GTTR people and e-mailed the university I was interested in. Turns out I need to have a C grade in the leaving cert as it's recognised as the same as the GCSE.

Have a look at this years test paper for the GCSE.

http://www.gcsemathspastpapers.com/gcse-maths-past-papers-questions.htm

If only our leaving cert was that easy It seems the higher level does paper 3-4 and foundation do 1-2. The higher level is a piece of cake.

I think with less than a month's study I could get close to 100% in the test. It's mostly percentages and simple equations with a small bit of geometry thrown in for good measure, and you are allowed calculaters.

It's more of a rant I suppose, because the equivalent to the GCSE through open university will cost £750 in Ireland / £350 in U.K.

I wonder if I could register to do the GCSE for next summer and just do a bit of study when I come back from Korea.

femur61

When I did my degree in the UK 18 years ago, my leaving cert was considered an A level.

peanuthead

Was just going to echo what has been said above.

I think Leaving Cert is A levels
Is junior cert not GCSE?

Although why would they care what you got in your junior cert?

And then (OT) what are O Levels?

Edit: Qualifiax states the Junior Cert as the closest Irish comparison to the GCSE qualification

http://www.qualifax.ie/menu_material/Qualifications/Comparison%20with%20UK%20awards%20141206.htm

Is there any chance you misread GCSE for GCE which qualifax also states as being the closest comparison to the LC?

cloneslad

peanuthead wrote: »

Was just going to echo what has been said above.

I think Leaving Cert is A levels
Is junior cert not GCSE?

Although why would they care what you got in your junior cert?

And then (OT) what are O Levels?

Edit: Qualifiax states the Junior Cert as the closest Irish comparison to the GCSE qualification

http://www.qualifax.ie/menu_material/Qualifications/Comparison%20with%20UK%20awards%20141206.htm

Is there any chance you misread GCSE for GCE which qualifax also states as being the closest comparison to the LC?

from the website of the university.

English and mathematics GCSE grade C or equivalent (University equivalency tests in English Language, mathematics and science may be available for some applicants)

I also received E-mails from three different people telling me that I would need a C grade in GCSE or would not get in and that the leaving cert was the equivalent.

I called GTTR and they also told me that the equivalent of the GCSE was the leaving cert and not the Junior cert. She said I'm pretty certain it's the same as your leaving cert, it's definitely not the junior cert.

I don't know why, because they are both taken at a similar age.

Considering I did 4 years of accountancy for my honours degree, and 3 years of statistics this rule is crazy.

That maths paper is similar to the first question in the leavign cert. You know that one they give you to lull you into a flase sense of security before they hit you with triganometry and all those rules from the log book or whatever it was called, that you weren't allowed to look at.


I sent away for my leaving cert results today anyway, in the hope that I'm wrong and I scraped a c3, but I'm 99% sure I didn't cos I remember being surprised as I was expecting a B, but not getting it checked as I have more points than I needed for my first choice.

peanuthead

cloneslad wrote: »

from the website of the university.



I also received E-mails from three different people telling me that I would need a C grade in GCSE or would not get in and that the leaving cert was the equivalent.

I called GTTR and they also told me that the equivalent of the GCSE was the leaving cert and not the Junior cert. She said I'm pretty certain it's the same as your leaving cert, it's definitely not the junior cert.

I don't know why, because they are both taken at a similar age.

Considering I did 4 years of accountancy for my honours degree, and 3 years of statistics this rule is crazy.

That maths paper is similar to the first question in the leavign cert. You know that one they give you to lull you into a flase sense of security before they hit you with triganometry and all those rules from the log book or whatever it was called, that you weren't allowed to look at.


I sent away for my leaving cert results today anyway, in the hope that I'm wrong and I scraped a c3, but I'm 99% sure I didn't cos I remember being surprised as I was expecting a B, but not getting it checked as I have more points than I needed for my first choice.

That's odd alright. Don't know what else to say. Will speak to my brother later - he is studying in UK and I'll see what he has to say on the matter.

mattyhislop

cloneslad wrote: »

I want to apply to do a PGCE in England.

I have discussed my qualifications in previous posts but for new readers and those who don't remember (1st class honours degree and a masters plus 3 years teaching experience in ESL in Korea)

Anyway, to get on the course in England you need a C grade in English and Math in your GCSE. As I am from Monaghan I didn't do GCSE.

In my leaving I did honours English and got more than the C required. I did pass math and only got a D1. (I didn't study much in school and spent my time playing rugby)

Anyway, I called the GTTR people and e-mailed the university I was interested in. Turns out I need to have a C grade in the leaving cert as it's recognised as the same as the GCSE.

Have a look at this years test paper for the GCSE.

http://www.gcsemathspastpapers.com/gcse-maths-past-papers-questions.htm

If only our leaving cert was that easy It seems the higher level does paper 3-4 and foundation do 1-2. The higher level is a piece of cake.

I think with less than a month's study I could get close to 100% in the test. It's mostly percentages and simple equations with a small bit of geometry thrown in for good measure, and you are allowed calculaters.

It's more of a rant I suppose, because the equivalent to the GCSE through open university will cost £750 in Ireland / £350 in U.K.

I wonder if I could register to do the GCSE for next summer and just do a bit of study when I come back from Korea.

Cloneslad, I have been looking into doing the PGCE in England myself for a while now. I did a three day taster course in London earlier on in the year and was advised that I'd have to get a statement from NARIC to officially show what level my Irish exams were at. Here's the link (costs about £40/50- bit of a money racket!):

http://www.naric.org.uk/index.asp?page=17

As far as i'm aware, the Junior Cert is seen as the equivalent of the GCESs (the O-Levels were replaced by the GCSE's in England in the 90s) and the Leaving Cert is the equivalent of the A-Levels. Each A-Level exam is more in depth than our LC ones but they only do three subjects and we do seven so things balance out.

Anyway, I would def have thought any result at leaving cert level is at a higher standard than a GCSE. Worth checking out...

cloneslad

Thanks for the replies everyone.

It's very annoying. I think if I can't get in for the 2011 intake I will prob not do it. I would like to do it in England because it's cheaper to do it there and live there plus there is a better chance of securing employment for a few years.


It's nice to know I'm not the only one to think this is strange. I think it's crazy, especially after looking through the 2010 exam paper.

pathway33

Find a college that provides equivalence tests in maths.
'Equivalency tests

You may not be able to show that you have the required knowledge of English, mathematics and/or science before courses start. If so, some training providers may be able to offer you equivalency tests to assess your knowledge of these subjects for entry to their courses. You must contact your chosen providers to find out whether or not they can offer you these tests before you apply.
A pass in one training provider's equivalency test is not usually acceptable for entry to courses at other training providers. You would need to take tests at each training provider that is interested in offering you a place.'

Source: http://www.gttr.ac.uk/students/beforeyouapply/entryrequirements/academicrequirements

claire h

Very strange - for entry to undergraduate courses in the UK, the Leaving Cert is the equivalent to A-levels (which makes sense). I think perhaps this may be to do with the fact that if you're doing A-levels, you're taking very specific subjects (you could end up doing neither English nor Maths) whereas you would have taken those subjects at GCSE level - whereas over here the LC is still a time for people to be taking a wide range of subjects. Still. They could do with updating that, methinks...

aridion

I am in the same situation. I got a d2 in higher level Englaish for LC. I think that you can do the equivalency test. These are accepted by a few pgce universitys. They have a web site. Check it on google. I fi don't get onto the pgce 2011, I am heading off to Korea or Thailand. Not waiting around for another year.

cloneslad

aridion wrote: »

I am in the same situation. I got a d2 in higher level Englaish for LC. I think that you can do the equivalency test. These are accepted by a few pgce universitys. They have a web site. Check it on google. I fi don't get onto the pgce 2011, I am heading off to Korea or Thailand. Not waiting around for another year.

I have given up on it.

I'm in Korea at the minute and won't be home until near the end of April so I will miss out on most of the interviews for the good courses. I think I may move to London and try get a job outside of teaching.

I would recommend coming to Korea anyway. It will allow you to see if teaching is what you really want to do without having to pay financially for it to find out it's not for you.

Oh and your D2 in honours so you might be okay. My maths was Ordinary level.

Dionysus

cloneslad wrote: »

I want to apply to do a PGCE in England.

I have discussed my qualifications in previous posts but for new readers and those who don't remember (1st class honours degree and a masters plus 3 years teaching experience in ESL in Korea)

Anyway, to get on the course in England you need a C grade in English and Math in your GCSE. As I am from Monaghan I didn't do GCSE.

In my leaving I did honours English and got more than the C required. I did pass math and only got a D1. (I didn't study much in school and spent my time playing rugby)

Anyway, I called the GTTR people and e-mailed the university I was interested in. Turns out I need to have a C grade in the leaving cert as it's recognised as the same as the GCSE.

Have a look at this years test paper for the GCSE.

http://www.gcsemathspastpapers.com/gcse-maths-past-papers-questions.htm

If only our leaving cert was that easy It seems the higher level does paper 3-4 and foundation do 1-2. The higher level is a piece of cake.

I think with less than a month's study I could get close to 100% in the test. It's mostly percentages and simple equations with a small bit of geometry thrown in for good measure, and you are allowed calculaters.

It's more of a rant I suppose, because the equivalent to the GCSE through open university will cost £750 in Ireland / £350 in U.K.

I wonder if I could register to do the GCSE for next summer and just do a bit of study when I come back from Korea.

Pardon me for asking the obvious (there's no mention of it in the op) but if you have a 1st in your primary degree why don't you just apply for the PGDE in Ireland, where you don't need JC or LC qualifications?

cloneslad

Dionysus wrote: »

Pardon me for asking the obvious (there's no mention of it in the op) but if you have a 1st in your primary degree why don't you just apply for the PGDE in Ireland, where you don't need JC or LC qualifications?

I think would get in to most PGDE courses in Ireland due to my first and masters degree but I don't want to do it in Ireland. It is far too expensive and there are very few jobs for those just graduating.

The U.K on the other hand has a grant available for those doing the PGCE and the fees are much lower. There are more jobs in England too and I would like to live there for a few years so having a PGCE makes it easier to get hired. (plus you need to do 12 months placement in the U.K upon completion so it's a foot in the door and a bit of experience)

aridion

Cloneslad,
I have completed my application form for the PGCE, just waiting for the referee to get back to me on it. My first choice university accept the D2 in English. However, they said that as there are a lot of applications for places on the Primary course, it will be difficult to get in.
I wa sin Korea about 5 years ago. I think that I will head there for a year if I don't get into the PGCE this year. Kind of miss the place.
Can't you send in your application from Korea? Then wait for an interview date. I think the interviews are generally held in February and March as far as I know.

Dionysus

cloneslad wrote: »

I think would get in to most PGDE courses in Ireland due to my first and masters degree but I don't want to do it in Ireland. It is far too expensive and there are very few jobs for those just graduating.

The U.K on the other hand has a grant available for those doing the PGCE and the fees are much lower. There are more jobs in England too and I would like to live there for a few years so having a PGCE makes it easier to get hired. (plus you need to do 12 months placement in the U.K upon completion so it's a foot in the door and a bit of experience)

The finances of the PGDE are not as bad as you might think. Yes, it costs €6500 but even if you don't qualify for the grant, as I didn't, there are sources of funding available to you. I received slightly under €3000 through these sources, and this was in the past year. Moreover, I've been teaching for 22 hours each week for the past 8 weeks, earning the fully qualified hourly rate. Do the maths. And should I need to go to work in another EU state the PGDE will be accepted there (under EU law).

You are aware you'll get no additional pay for your postgraduate qualification in the English system? And that there is substantially more paperwork? And that you begin on significantly less money (£21,588)? And you have to work for five weeks longer each year?

Best of luck!

PS: Since this year, all newly-qualified secondary school teachers have to complete 300 hours Post Qualification Employment (PQE) following the PGDE.

Titania

I'm doing a PGCE in England at the moment, and my Junior Cert Maths was accepted by the GTTR. I doubt it's changed much in a year.

aridion

thats interesting. Which university are you doing your pgce at?

Titania

Goldsmiths. I didn't send my Leaving Cert in - only my Junior Cert.

pow wow

Strictly speaking the Leaving Cert is higher than a GCSE but lower than an A-Level but as they don't equate they insist on the Leaving Cert grades where a British (or British educated) student would only need the GCSE. It's been like that for years. I'm surprised the last poster got by with Junior Cert. results as these are commonly recognised as below GCSE standard - maybe it was a fluke?

Titania

I don't think it was a fluke. I know of other Irish PGCE students who've had the same experience as me.

The universities are more interested in your degree results, and all prospective teachers have to sit and pass three QTS tests (numeracy, literacy and ICT) during their training year, so that's more of a worry for a lot of people...

pow wow

Titania wrote: »

I don't think it was a fluke. I know of other Irish PGCE students who've had the same experience as me.

The universities are more interested in your degree results, and all prospective teachers have to sit and pass three QTS tests (numeracy, literacy and ICT) during their training year, so that's more of a worry for a lot of people...

I meant fluke in the context of them laying down a rule and then breaking it - a JC is below a GCSE - always has been and most likely always will be. I agree that the rule doesn't make sense when you're talking about people who already have college degrees, but then if they're breaking it Irish students could be seen to be getting an unfair leg up over students who did their secondary schooling in the UK system.

Titania

Fair enough. I do think this evens out when you consider that Irish students keep core subjects up until 18 (even at ordinary level). We were given a surprise Algebra session early on in the course, and I was the only one who passed the test at the end. And I did ordinary maths!

xxXchocolate puppyXxx

Does anyone know how to go about getting observation experience to get into a pgde course in england, I want to do it there because as you said, better job prospects and a bit of experience too! But cant figure out how to get the observation experience, in college at the moment in final year, so would love to go straight into it! But looks like il have to take the year out and get some experience to get in, because don't have any at all besides giving grinds!
Anyone else have this problem?

Kohl

Can anyone recommend some good universities for PGCE secondary maths?