Types of Atheism?

Seosaimh77

This question basically stems from a skit by comedian Dara O'Briain where he says something along the lines of:

'I'm atheist. I don't believe in God or all that stuff.... I'm still Catholic.'

Now I know that in his case this was mainly for comic effect. But it got me thinking of the different 'types' of atheist/agnostic people out there. And I thought I'd use a few people I know as examples. All of these people declared themselves to be atheist/agnostic:

Insisted on christening children 'just in case'.
Insisted on a catholic wedding, as otherwise it wasn't a real marriage.
Vaguely drifted between complete denial of a God/afterlife, to praying for help, and cursing/blaming 'God' when no help was forthcoming.
Mostly atheist, but allows himself to fill gaps in his understanding with God.
Doesn't believe in God, but follows all Catholic teachings, for reasons unknown.

These are the examples that have just sprung to mind. Obviously some of them were closer to agnosticism than atheism, and some were neither, but I'm more interested to see what the general feeling of people are than to get into the semantics of definitions.

I must also state, I am not having a go at these people. I dont think a classification is that important to the individual. This is more of a philosophical interest. I know that I am fudging the lines between definitions of atheist and agnostic and even spiritual believers with my poll choices, but as I said, I'm not trying to define what people are, just trying to get a gist of their attitude towards the subject.

Please answer the poll, and if you dont think you fit in to any of these options please feel free to explain why.


It has been pointed out that the options are a little leading as denying something has a semantic implication that there is something to deny. So on the suggestion of Dades, lets assume that 'deny' reads as "reject" or something that doesn't give some random theistic visitor notions

Ickle Magoo

I have a complaint with your rather leading questions. To deny something infers there is something there to resist believing in.

I don't think I fit any of your definitions, I've never been anything other than an atheist - and until such a time as some satisfactory evidence to the contrary presents itself, I'll probably die and atheist.

My parents didn't baptise me, I haven't baptised my kids and I wasn't married in a church either...

Seosaimh77

wow - wasn't expecting answers so quick. I suppose it could be seen as a bit leading, but it was not meant to be. Wasn't sure how it would go - hence the last option. But thanks for explaining - gives me another way of thinking about it that I hadn't previously

Pygmalion

"Don't think I fit closely enough to any options"

I'd probably be leaning very much towards the first with a small bit of the second (to throw around the tired, old saying I deny the existence of a god exactly as strongly as I deny the existence of fairies or unicorns).
I definitely wouldn't say I know for sure, as that implies proof, I'd feel equally wrong saying it's a possibility or that I have my doubts though.

The 4th might apply to me instead though depending on the definition of "Spirituality" (I suppose that's more my fault for not having a clear definition or having thought about it enough though).

Improbable

I'd deny the existence of a deity but feel obligated, as a scientist, to allow for the possibility of its existence.

Seosaimh77

Pygmalion wrote: »

"Don't think I fit closely enough to any options"

I'd probably be leaning very much towards the first with a small bit of the second (to throw around the tired, old saying I deny the existence of a god exactly as strongly as I deny the existence of fairies or unicorns).
I definitely wouldn't say I know for sure, as that implies proof, I'd feel equally wrong saying it's a possibility or that I have my doubts though.

The 4th might apply to me instead though depending on the definition of "Spirituality" (I suppose that's more my fault for not having a clear definition or having thought about it enough though).

Yeah I just used spirituality as a 'catch-all' word to cover other religions and beliefs that I don't know very much about.

Scarinae

I know exactly what Dara O'Briain means... I am an atheist, but people still like to categorise me as a Protestant As if it makes any difference if you are a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist? Basically, it's more of a cultural difference for me than a spiritual one.

My parents are not religious, but baptised me and my siblings to keep the grandparents happy. It turned out to be very useful decision however, because it meant that we were able to get into good schools. Some friends of my parents didn't baptise their children and had awful trouble, the kids were all in different schools... Protestant ethos schools give preference to their own, and many of the schools are very good and they don't tend to be as militantly religious as the Catholic ones, so if I have children in Ireland I would consider baptising them just to give them an advantage in education. This might seem cynical, but until education in Ireland is separated from religion, I feel I would have no choice but to play the system

Dades

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I have a complaint with your rather leading questions. To deny something infers there is something there to resist believing in.

Good point - lets assume that reads "reject" or something that doesn't give some random theistic visitor notions.

robindch

Seosaimh77 wrote: »

if you dont think you fit in to any of these options please feel free to explain why.

The poll questions are very asymmetric -- try again

krudler

Probably the 2nd one, if god ever shows up on my doorstep and proves he exists, sure I'll believe in him, but until then...nope.

Helix

i have a problem with the options

Completely deny any existence of God/spirituality/afterlife and Rationally deny existence of God/spirituality/afterlife, but allow you cant know for sure overlap for me. i completely deny the existance of god etc, but you cant be 100% about anything - especially if you follow science instead of fairy stories - and i KNOW that you cant be 100% about anything, but i still deny the existance of god etc based on probability

im sitting on a bed right now, and theres a miniscule possibility that all the atoms in my body will slip through it, reassemble and ill end up downstairs. its not gonna happen though, the chances are so small its not worth acknowledging them

just like the odds of there being a supreme being imo

if you dont believe in something how can you actively give it enough credence to believe it might exist? that makes no logical sense, if you thought that then youd believe in it

Turtwig

As Ickle already pointed out denying something implies that there is something, you just deny it. Am I denying God? Maybe, but I don't think I am. I simply think the question of his existence is unnecessary for the time as we do not simply know enough about the cosmos to really decide whether chucking in a God as an explanation is necessary or not. I would rather folks assumed God might not exist and let's see if our evidence leads us to Him, instead of the rather pathetic God exists assumption and let's correlate anything that looks nice, unlikely or amazing as evidence for God.

Helix

denying something doesnt imply there is something, it implies others think there is and youre denying what they think, not that what they think is real

Ickle Magoo

Helix wrote: »

denying something doesnt imply there is something, it implies others think there is and youre denying what they think, not that what they think is real

I know we're veering into semantics but I think you are describing rejection...denial is more a refusal to accept something of fact, like holocaust deniers (does that count as a godwin? ). I don't view my atheism as being a refusal to accept anything of substance - so far there has been no "anything" worthy of a denial.

Daftendirekt

I voted 'Don't fit any of the options' closely enough for the same issue with the word 'deny' but apart from that I'd be pretty close to the second option.

I don't think there is a god, but I can't know for sure that there isn't some godlike being in a parallel dimension somewhere creating worlds and stars and making sure people don't eat shellfish or have any fun in the bedroom.

Seosaimh77

Dades wrote: »

Good point - lets assume that reads "reject" or something that doesn't give some random theistic visitor notions.

Cheers for the comments. I realise that my options weren't phrased perfectly. I had a feeling I was doing something wrong so I put in the 6th option. Which I am glad I did, as I've already learned about new ways of thinking about it. If we take Dades suggestion it does improve the options a bit I think, although I reckon I could attempt to re-phrase them a million times without getting them right.

Personally, I am in option 2, 99% of the time, and every now and then the pig-headed stubborn b*stard in me jumps into option 1 (usually when in a drunken debate with an equally stubborn believer). Then I think about it, and come to the conclusion that option 1 is almost a dogmatic position in itself, in that it is claiming an absolute truth with no real verification. So, option 2 is where I send most of my time.

amacachi

I agree with the first reply in that I don't count my denial as being an active thing.

Pretty much the whole time I don't think of a higher power, I just think how lucky we are to be here and the only time I do wish I believed in something is when I realise that I'm probably going to die too soon for humanity to have reached the level I wish we could.

bnt

Do you have a copy of The God Delusion (Dawkins) handy? He does something like this too in the section "The Poverty of Agnosticism", where he lays out a 7-point scale of belief. He's a 6 on that scale, not a 7. I have yet to meet anyone, online or offline, who holds an absolute belief that gods do not exist.

Seosaimh77

bnt wrote: »

Do you have a copy of The God Delusion (Dawkins) handy? He does something like this too in the section "The Poverty of Agnosticism", where he lays out a 7-point scale of belief. He's a 6 on that scale, not a 7. I have yet to meet anyone, online or offline, who holds an absolute belief that gods do not exist.

I've never read any of Dawkins stuff. I've seen interviews with him though and he is very good at expressing ideas that I just can't put into words properly. So I'm not surprised that he's already done a better version of my poll questions. It would have been handy if I'd read that link before I done the poll! I'll get my hands on that book asap.

swampgas

In my opinion points 6 & 7 on the scale are pretty much the same thing. In my case I consider the probablity of the existence of god so small that it is equivalent to saying that I am 100% certain. To an accuracy of less than 1% at any rate.

sensibleken

dont believe in god. believe in spirits. Mojito anyone?

Ickle Magoo

sensibleken wrote: »

dont believe in god. believe in spirits. Mojito anyone?

Mmmmm, is it too early for a mile high manhattan?

sensibleken

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Mmmmm, is it too early for a mile high manhattan?

well i dont deny youre an attractive man but michael o'leary is charging to use the toilets and im all outta change so ill have to put the 'mile high' invite on hold

sensibleken

sensibleken wrote: »

well i dont deny youre an attractive man but michael o'leary is charging to use the toilets and im all outta change so ill have to put the 'mile high' invite on hold

:eek:

Ickle Magoo

sensibleken wrote: »

well i dont deny youre an attractive man but michael o'leary is charging to use the toilets and im all outta change so ill have to put the 'mile high' invite on hold

But, but, but....I am a LAAAY-DEEEE.

Seosaimh77

Good call, I'd love a mojito right now... and it's never too early for a mile high manhattan

sensibleken

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

But, but, but....I am a LAAAY-DEEEE.

shít. not the first time i made that mistake! im very sorry. have a free mojito on the house

Dades

So now you're trying to get her drunk? :pac:

Ickle Magoo

Wouldn't be the first to make that mistake either.

sensibleken

Dades wrote: »

So now you're trying to get her drunk? :pac:

hell yeah! but ill get everyone drunk. if we run out, i know a dude who cant miraculously make more wine. potent stuff too, once i was at this party and he passed out for three whole days and woke up naked in a cave

Ickle Magoo

sensibleken wrote: »

i know a dude who cant miraculously make more wine

I know loads like that. Invite the other guy that can...

sensibleken

anyone know anybody who can turn water into spiced rum. or those ****ty bread stick things into cigarettes?

Ok the last ones unlikely, i heard god hates fags

goingpostal

I DEMAND a seventh option, exclusively for my personal use: "I worship the Old Norse War God Odin. Every morning I perform propitiation's to him, which involve me donning full body armour and fighting a battle with my neighbours twin dobermans. FTW"