Great-Great Grandfather Born In Tyrone in 1901 And Then in Armagh in 1911??

SharpshooterTom

Hi all (I'm new),

I am currently trying to trace back my great-great grandparents (Patrick and Sarah Slavin) based in Aughnacloy, Co.Tyrone. However I am facing difficulty as I have discovered that my great-great grandfather was allegedly born according the 1911 census to be born in Armagh, as opposed to the rest of his family born in Tyrone, but the 1901 census now says he was actually was born Tyrone. Is this type of finding unusual??

1901 page,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Aughancloy_Urban_Aughancloy_Town_in_17_files/Mill_Street/1724189/
and transcript,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001182229/

1911 page,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Aughnacloy_Urban/Mill_Street/854156/
and transcript,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003412197/

My aim is try and trace back Patrick Slavin, however I am finding it very difficult as I have two bits of information telling me two different things and I don't know where to start. I have been using tyrone.rootsireland.ie recently to obtain birth certificates however I cannot find any Patrick Slavin's born between 1855-1870 near Aughnacloy (only in places like Omagh, Strabane etc). However there are some Patrick's Slavin's in Armagh near the Tyrone border. But how I do I know with certainty which is the correct Patrick Slavin? How can I narrow my search at least?

A few things, I have been able to find the birth certificate of Sarah Slavin (Born Sarah Campbell in 1868 in Aughnacloy) and I have been able to successfully obtain a marriage certificate between Patrick Slavin and Sarah Campbell in Aughnacloy in 1897, however it does not give any of their parents forenames.:(

Also, daughters Sarah and Elizabeth are next door in another property (with Sarah Slavin being head of house) by 1911.

Another thing I can't work out is, why would they have a protestant daughter?

Appreciate if anyone could help

pinkypinky

Gnobe,

Welcome to the board.
Have a read of our stickies to help you get started.

Ok, you've got a few of the classic family problems. Patrick seems to have two different birth locations. Based on my experience, I'd say the Armagh is more likely to be right. You notice he is illiterate, this means the enumerator filled out the form. He may have just put Tyrone down for everyone on the later census. There's a big age difference as well, probably due to him not being entirely sure of his age. So before 1864, there wouldn't be a birth cert to find.

I'm surprised that the civil cert does not give the fathers' names: I've never seen that before and I've seen a lot of marriage certs. Is it a transcript of the marriage cert or the actual one from PRONI or the GRO in the Republic? If not, I recommend using the LDS index to find their civil cert and ordering that. If you do have the actual civil cert, then it should say what church they married in, try and get the parish record of the marriage, it should also give the parents names, then you'll be able to narrow down the birth certs of the Patrick Slavins in Armagh.

Finally, the daughter has a different surname so she probably converted for marriage.

shanew

Gnobe wrote: »

Hi all (I'm new),
....
I am currently trying to trace back my great-great grandparents (Patrick and Sarah Slavin) based in Aughnacloy, Co.Tyrone. However I am facing difficulty as I have discovered that my great-great grandfather was allegedly born according the 1911 census to be born in Armagh, as opposed to the rest of his family born in Tyrone, but the 1901 census now says he was actually was born Tyrone. Is this type of finding unusual??
....
I have been able to successfully obtain a marriage certificate between Patrick Slavin and Sarah Campbell in Aughnacloy in 1897, however it does not give any of their parents forenames.:(
......

Inaccuracies in age and place of birth do happen on census returns - and since neither Patrick or Sarah could read, the form seems to have been filled in by the enumerator. If Patrick gave his place of birth as a town or area near the county border, then maybe the enumerator got the county incorrect on the form.

not sure why the marriage cert would be missing father's name ... was this an actual civil cert or a parish transcript from RootsIreland or another website ?


Shane

... just saw pinkypinky posted much the same details

shanew

pinkypinky wrote: »

Gnobe,
....
Finally, the daughter has a different surname so she probably converted for marriage.

the daughter is single and age 15 ... maybe a daughter of Sarah from a previous marriage ?


Shane

pinkypinky

shanew wrote: »

the daughter is single and age 15 ... maybe a daughter of Sarah from a previous marriage ?
Shane

Or illegitimate? - she has her mother's maiden name.
Intriguing. I'd get her birth cert too to satisfy Shane's and my curiosity, if not your own!

owenc

Maybe the daughters already married, and maybe he was born on the border and the border changed over those ten years lol to be over armagh........

johnny_doyle

the 1911 census has Patrick and Sarah married 24 years. Are you sure about the 1897 marriage cert being theirs? The age of the kids in the 1901 census suggests that the couple were married before 1897 or rather that Patrick was and that Sarah is the second wife.

Any birth certs for the Slavin children to confirm the mother's name? Any birth cert found for Jane Campbell?


Is there any link to this family and the boxer Gerald (Paddy) Slavin who hailed from Aughnacloy?

blue banana

The introduction of the Old Age Pension in 1908, meant that a lot of people "aged" significantly between 1901 and 1911. This is another possible reason for the discrepancy in age.

PatrickStrain

Gnobe wrote: »

Hi all (I'm new),

I am currently trying to trace back my great-great grandparents (Patrick and Sarah Slavin) based in Aughnacloy, Co.Tyrone. However I am facing difficulty as I have discovered that my great-great grandfather was allegedly born according the 1911 census to be born in Armagh, as opposed to the rest of his family born in Tyrone, but the 1901 census now says he was actually was born Tyrone. Is this type of finding unusual??

1901 page,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Tyrone/Aughancloy_Urban_Aughancloy_Town_in_17_files/Mill_Street/1724189/
and transcript,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001182229/

1911 page,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Tyrone/Aughnacloy_Urban/Mill_Street/854156/
and transcript,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003412197/

My aim is try and trace back Patrick Slavin, however I am finding it very difficult as I have two bits of information telling me two different things and I don't know where to start. I have been using tyrone.rootsireland.ie recently to obtain birth certificates however I cannot find any Patrick Slavin's born between 1855-1870 near Aughnacloy (only in places like Omagh, Strabane etc). However there are some Patrick's Slavin's in Armagh near the Tyrone border. But how I do I know with certainty which is the correct Patrick Slavin? How can I narrow my search at least?

A few things, I have been able to find the birth certificate of Sarah Slavin (Born Sarah Campbell in 1868 in Aughnacloy) and I have been able to successfully obtain a marriage certificate between Patrick Slavin and Sarah Campbell in Aughnacloy in 1897, however it does not give any of their parents forenames.:(

Also, daughters Sarah and Elizabeth are next door in another property (with Sarah Slavin being head of house) by 1911.

Another thing I can't work out is, why would they have a protestant daughter?

Appreciate if anyone could help

Patrick Slavin and Sarah Campbell are also my Great Grandparents, Maybe I can help?

Dun

pinkypinky wrote: »

Gnobe,
I'm surprised that the civil cert does not give the fathers' names: I've never seen that before and I've seen a lot of marriage certs.

In the sub-registration district of Moville in Inishowen, there are volumes of marriage certificates where the registrar chose to only fill in the names of the bride and groom, and the date and location of the marriage. No address of the people getting married, occupations or fathers' names. I'm glad I've no relatives there!

SlimCi

My family are all from Omagh and Beragh up the road from Aughnacloy and I know that Slevin is a very common name up there. Maybe try to look for the name with a "E". Also I found that my only recourse to get proper information was to go the the local church in Beragh and it was only there that I got the information on the marriage cert that I wanted. PRONI in Belfast who have a website can be very helpful and you can do business with them on the phone or by post, but I would by far recommend more going to Aughnacloy and making an appointment to see the local priest.

SharpshooterTom

Hi all, after a long time out I decided to have another go at doing this (also had a name change). I really should have responded last time, so I don't know how many of you still post here. I ran out of money back then (all those £5 credits were racking up) and wasn't really going anywhere with so many dead ends. But I want to rediscover it and finish it all off now if I can, and there's been some brilliant reponses here so far which I appreciate.

pinkypinky wrote:

He may have just put Tyrone down for everyone on the later census. There's a big age difference as well, probably due to him not being entirely sure of his age. So before 1864, there wouldn't be a birth cert to find

So that's me snookered then? I can't find any Patrick Slavins born before 63/64 (which reiterates your point), I have however found a couple of Patrick Slavins in the Griffith evaluation forms for Clogher (Slavin is a pretty rare name to begin with, its a corrupted form of Slevin), and that's only 5-10 miles from Aughnacloy. Is there any other way I can find his origins or am I pretty much at a dead end here with regards to him?

johnny doyle wrote:

the 1911 census has Patrick and Sarah married 24 years. Are you sure about the 1897 marriage cert being theirs? The age of the kids in the 1901 census suggests that the couple were married before 1897 or rather that Patrick was and that Sarah is the second wife.

It was the only matching search within a 30 year period that came up for Patrick Slavin (or Slevin as it was in this case) and Sarah Campbell, it was also in Aghaloo which is the catholic parish next door to Aughnacloy, so I assume it must be. Given they've lied about their ages (both going from 40 to 56 and 36 to 57 in just 10 years!) I would say they've equally lied about how long they've been married for (stating 24 years instead of 14 to tie it all in).

I have a screen capture of the church record from rootsireland.ie:

http://oi60.tinypic.com/2mec1o6.jpg

and yes they really don't give any forenames for the parents? Bit of a blow in all honesty.

johnny doyle wrote:

Is there any link to this family and the boxer Gerald (Paddy) Slavin who hailed from Aughnacloy?

Yes that's my grandfather! :pac: (Mums dad), you'll notice one of the children there is Joseph Slavin, that's his father (my great-grandfather and these are my great great grandparents! ).

pinkypinky wrote:

Or illegitimate? - she has her mother's maiden name.
Intriguing. I'd get her birth cert too to satisfy Shane's and my curiosity, if not your own!

I did just that. I couldn't find any Jane Campbell's in Aughnacloy but I did find a Jane Campbell born in 1886 (she was 15 in 1901 so that fits) in the nearby Clogher parish 5-10 miles away, she had no father stated and her mother was Sarah Campbell, it could only be her.

http://oi60.tinypic.com/dxh6xd.jpg

But what I am interested in though is her religion. Why is she church of Ireland stated by the enumerator but the rest of the entire family follows a different faith? I can get no confirmation of her religion, any idea how? I'm under growing suspicion that Sarah Campbell was Church of Ireland herself and has converted, which would be fascinating to discover if we have a mixed marriage (of which no one knows of) in our past but I have no way of knowing that. I can't find any Sarah Campbell's born in Clogher, but narrowing her religion down would be great.

DONNELLON

Thomas,
I'm writing a history of Irish heavyweight boxers and have included a chapter on your grandfather. I would be interested in any stories, information you may have on him, especially in his pre and post ring career,
regards
Matt Donnellon

tabbey

Many mixed marriages had children of one gender baptised RC, and the other gender baptised C of I, or Presbyterian, Methodist etc. With a surname Campbell, there was probably some Scottish ancestry, at some generation during the last four centuries.

pinkypinky

Thomas - can you pm Donnellan about this please if it's of interest. S/he can't send pms yet. This is a very old thread and it's best not resurrect zombies.