Census is due for next April, time to stand up and be counted?

Butch Cassidy

The 2006 Census said there were a total of 3,644,965 Catholics in Ireland. There were figures for the other religions but they were nowhere near as high as this one.

"No Religion" or "Not Stated" came to 243,2002. There's another census coming up next April. A friend of mine suggested that the census figures is what gives most credence to the religion governing us. Our elected officials in parliament say a prayer and bless themselves before the order of business, the church have a hand in schools and hospitals along with a few other issues influenced heavily by the church and by religion.

Do you think the census figures are important? Will you make sure to reflect your position on the form? Is there any point arguing with a friend of family member who isn't religious yet when push comes to shove, such as the case on a census forum, they'll say "ah yeah, catholic whatever"? It is no doubt difficult for adults living with parents/family who don't respect their removal from the church/religion and still put them down as catholic but how does one deal with that?.


Edit:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0916/breaking33.html

CSO seeks 440 census supervisors

CHARLIE TAYLOR

The Central Statistics Office (CSO) has begun recruiting supervisors for the next census, which is due to be held next April.

CSO is seeking 440 field supervisors to work on a temporary fixed purpose contract basis from January next until June 2011. The census will be held on Sunday, April 10th.

The census is a detailed account of everyone who is in the country on a particular night. It counts every individual in order to establish population size and to analyse changes that have occurred in society.

Every census includes questions on basic demographic and social topics such as age, sex, marital status, education, employment status and occupation.

Ireland has been conducting censuses since 1841.

The last census took place on the night of Sunday April 23rd, 2006. On that evening, everybody who was in the country was included in a census form, including people residing with friends or relatives, staying in a hotel, hospital, guesthouse or on board a vessel.

krudler

I'll be putting down "no religion" anyway.

magicbastarder

a mate of mine said he intends to write to the census bureau asking why he should participate, given that the census results are confidential, yet they released the entire census for 1911, and there would still be a fair few people alive who were counted in it.

i think he was just in an ornery mood at the time.

Shenshen

Well, I would most certainly put "no religion" down, but I'm not sure if I'm even going to be counted, seeing as I live her but can't afford to buy citizenship yet....

Galvasean

You can count me in! (er... out!)

Dades

Second census thread this month. :pac:

Ticking the correct box on the census is the most relevant thing a non-believer can do for the future of secular Ireland. Forget "Count me out", or placards, or banning the Angelus.

Unfortunately our future is largely in the hands of kids who may or may not try to defy their mammies.

Butch Cassidy

Dades wrote: »

Second census thread this month. :pac:

Sorry boss, might as well merge them. The news article about the Census was only yesterday and I did a quick check of the front page to see if there was a thread frmo yesterday about it...

Dades wrote: »

Ticking the correct box on the census is the most relevant thing a non-believer can do for the future of secular Ireland. Forget "Count me out", or placards, or banning the Angelus.

Unfortunately our future is largely in the hands of kids who may or may not try to defy their mammies.

What about the adults who are living with mammies who despite their strongest protest can't get their parents to respect their position? Obvious is of course just move out but losing ones job and going back to living with the parents seems to be a common occurrence in the last year or so.

I agree it's intensely important.

wonton wrote: »

I'm also curious as to the percent of muslims in ireland now, it certainly looks like it has shot up.

If anything i'd say this census will be worse for atheists.

I can imagine even people being more inclined to put catholic because of the mass immigration.

This post is from the other thread but it caught my eye. In Ireland religion became part of the identity and culture. It'd be sh*t if we resorted back to this kinda stuff. The Dara O'Brien quote I suppose says a lot.

Dades

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Sorry boss, might as well merge them. The news article about the Census was only yesterday and I did a quick check of the front page to see if there was a thread frmo yesterday about it...

Ah sure it's important enough.

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

What about the adults who are living with mammies who despite their strongest protest can't get their parents to respect their position? Obvious is of course just move out but losing ones job and going back to living with the parents seems to be a common occurrence in the last year or so.

Them too. Though the real numbers are the under 18s as they make up a huge proportion of the population - and are a lot more independent "spiritually" these days than they used to be.

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

This post is from the other thread but it caught my eye. In Ireland religion became part of the identity and culture. It'd be sh*t if we resorted back to this kinda stuff. The Dara O'Brien quote I suppose says a lot.

The RC Church is going to lose a lot of the Irish - but most every immigrant is going to bump up either the RC, Muslim or evangelical figures.

But we might as well accept that, and work on the Irish. Its the schools system that depends on the outcome.

Butch Cassidy

I once heard/read that Rupert Murdoch used the Enlglish premier league as a battering ram to force his way into the TV market. I think the Catholic church uses the schools and to a lesser extent the hospitals as that battering ram.

It's quite clear why they resist secular schools so much.

Does anyone dare to make a guess at what the numbers for Catholic will be? A shift in a few thousnd here or there perhaps? The short term gain for a few thousand on the "no religion" side doesn't feel or look so glorious. In part I think naievely enough that at some point in the future religion won't dominate and control society but ignoring the means and fantasising the end seems a bit illogical.

The Mad Hatter

[attempt to herd cats]Can we agree on what to tick/write? No religion? Atheist? Something else?[/attempt to herd cats]

Dougla2

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

[attempt to herd cats]Can we agree on what to tick/write? No religion? Atheist? Something else?[/attempt to herd cats]

atheism isn't a religion so no religion is what we should put down.

Butch Cassidy

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

[attempt to herd cats]Can we agree on what to tick/write? No religion? Atheist? Something else?[/attempt to herd cats]

"Not applicable" would suit me. This is what I say in hospital when they ask for religion.

Galvasean

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

[attempt to herd cats]Can we agree on what to tick/write? No religion? Atheist? Something else?[/attempt to herd cats]

No religion.

Wouldn't surprise me if you wrote Athist they lumped you in with the 'other' religions.

Dougla2

Galvasean wrote: »

No religion.

Wouldn't surprise me if you wrote Athist they lumped you in with the 'other' religions.

if they do that then many atheists wont be recorded accurately

Pygmalion

"No Religion" or "None" seems the best IMO.

"Not Applicable" might be true, but I imagine a lot of people would interpret that as not answering the question for other reasons and/or being private about your beliefs moreso than not being religious.

I personally would go with "No religion" over "Atheist" because the two don't mean the exact same thing, there are "Religions" that don't dictate or require belief in Gods, but which I definitely wouldn't associate myself with (mostly new age stuff, or weird cults, but there are also some "Atheist Buddhists" IIRC).

EDIT: On the other hand I suppose a malicious interpreter could claim "No Religion" to mean Theistic but not a member of an established religion too, but I guess it all depends on how incompetent we think these people will be :P

The Mad Hatter

Galvasean wrote: »

No religion.

Wouldn't surprise me if you wrote Athist they lumped you in with the 'other' religions.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what happened last time.

I think "No religion" is the better option, and it'll probably be what I'll be putting down, but I'm saying this less so that we decide here and now and more to draw attention to the issue.

P'raps we could get Mick Nugent and the AI crew in on this.

Ghost Buster

Well. I've got 5 who were ticking 'catholic' out of habit convinced not to next time and they will be including 12 kids on that. Do i get a badge?

Butch Cassidy

Can we put an announcement thingy up on this forum on the day of the Census? Just ye know, to remind people of the "no religion" thing.

I don't really care if people believe in a religion or not. It's that a) there's people roped into it against their will in childhood and are essentially non-believers and b) the supposedly large number of supporters is used for the justification that Ireland is a "Catholic country". Would this be the general view of people here? The offensively pre-emptive strikes on secularism that they come out with are against percieved offenses against them. But I couldn't give a damn what they worship. Bit off topic here, sorry.

The Mad Hatter

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Well. I've got 5 who were ticking 'catholic' out of habit convinced not to next time and they will be including 12 kids on that. Do i get a badge?

Yes, you win at atheism.

amacachi

If my mam gets to the form before me I'll be recorded as a Catholic again.:rolleyes:

Butch Cassidy

amacachi wrote: »

If my mam gets to the form before me I'll be recorded as a Catholic again.:rolleyes:

I'm possibly in the same boat as yourself but with the aul fella. We don't see eye to eye and the mother rubbishes my perceieved non-sensical claims that I'm not a catholic. "You made your confirmation! Shut up, of course you're catholic."

The Mad Hatter

amacachi wrote: »

If my mam gets to the form before me I'll be recorded as a Catholic again.:rolleyes:

Then get to it before her;)

TanG411

amacachi wrote: »

If my mam gets to the form before me I'll be recorded as a Catholic again.:rolleyes:

I know how you feel

I'll ask her if I can fill in my section, just to keep it 100% accurate.

Ghost Buster

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Then get to it before her;)

Or get the satinists to sort her out.:eek:

Dades

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

Can we put an announcement thingy up on this forum on the day of the Census? Just ye know, to remind people of the "no religion" thing.

There will be campaigns, no doubt. Atheist Ireland, and maybe the Humanists.

johnmcdnl

Dades wrote: »

Second census thread this month. :pac:

Ticking the correct box on the census is the most relevant thing a non-believer can do for the future of secular Ireland. Forget "Count me out", or placards, or banning the Angelus.

Unfortunately our future is largely in the hands of kids who may or may not try to defy their mammies.

If the census is of a weekday I'll be in college and will be NO RELIGION - if it's at the weekend I'll be a ROMAN CATHOLIC because I'd be shot if I asked to be put down as NO RELIGION - say there's a fair few others in my shoes too and that's gonna be a big problem I'd say because a lot of people who want a secular state or are pissed off at the church are still gonna put RC down because it's been taught to them from such a young age that you don't disown god ever

The Mad Hatter

Dades wrote: »

There will be campaigns, no doubt. Atheist Ireland, and maybe the Humanists.

I was just chatting to Mick Nugent about it on Twitter. He said there'd be a campaign, but they're not at the moment planning to campaign for a common name ("no religion," etc.). (Don't know how to link to the whole conversation, sorry.)

Butch Cassidy

johnmcdnl wrote: »

If the census is of a weekday I'll be in college and will be NO RELIGION - if it's at the weekend I'll be a ROMAN CATHOLIC because I'd be shot if I asked to be put down as NO RELIGION - say there's a fair few others in my shoes too and that's gonna be a big problem I'd say because a lot of people who want a secular state or are pissed off at the church are still gonna put RC down because it's been taught to them from such a young age that you don't disown god ever

It does seem like students that live part time near their college and other times at the family home don't get fully represented be it in the census or election times with the electoral register also a bit skewed.

I know it's one thing making a jibe about those that won't stand up to their mammies but it's a damn difficult situation. AGain, part of me thinks time will sort it out and the mammies will move on, people will move out and eventually there'll be no question of having it hanging over you.

Ghost Buster

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

It does seem like students that live part time near their college and other times at the family home don't get fully represented be it in the census or election times with the electoral register also a bit skewed.

I know it's one thing making a jibe about those that won't stand up to their mammies but it's a damn difficult situation. AGain, part of me thinks time will sort it out and the mammies will move on, people will move out and eventually there'll be no question of having it hanging over you.

Or to illustrate another issue. My sister has 4 kids. Daddy is an atheist, the kids are baptised but not doing communion or confirmation or being given any religious beliefs and my sis' is a lapsed / a la carte caholic. In the last census she put herself and the 4 kids down as catholic. Though quite bright (really:)) she had no notion that she was doing anything wrong or that her choices would be involved in the formation of legislation. The moment I told her off about it she said that she would put down 'no religion' for the kids and possibly for herself. I wonder how many other just tick catholic... just because...:(

Butch Cassidy

A la carte caholic. It sums them all up doesn't it? The church loves these cause they make up the numbers and then defend them which some claptrap about "they can chose their own level of faith" or something.

Truley

Woop! This will be my first time filling out my own census form, and I will definately be putting down 'no religion.' I think something like a facebook campaign would be a good idea, not necessarily to change people's minds, but to raise awareness and make people actually think about how they feel about the subject.

owenc

I have always beleived in god but now my re teacher has confused me and over the past few years i have gotten totally away from church, i will either put down christianity no dinomination, no religion or agnostic but chrisitanity no dinomination would be best for me.

owenc

Tombiman wrote: »

I know how you feel

I'll ask her if I can fill in my section, just to keep it 100% accurate.

I'll be doing that as well but for her i'll have to just put down christian, i hope the catholic and protestant numbers fall in the next census dramtically?!!

owenc

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Or to illustrate another issue. My sister has 4 kids. Daddy is an atheist, the kids are baptised but not doing communion or confirmation or being given any religious beliefs and my sis' is a lapsed / a la carte caholic. In the last census she put herself and the 4 kids down as catholic. Though quite bright (really:)) she had no notion that she was doing anything wrong or that her choices would be involved in the formation of legislation. The moment I told her off about it she said that she would put down 'no religion' for the kids and possibly for herself. I wonder how many other just tick catholic... just because...:(

A bet yeh all of them, the the uk government should put out a news story or widely publish it or something saying not to do that if you don't goto church or beleive in god, as atheists here put down presbyterian just because they were baptised presbyterian even though they havn't been a church once since baptisim..:rolleyes:

Dades

"New Atheism" will not let the real stats go quietly into the night. :pac:

johnmcdnl

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I know it's one thing making a jibe about those that won't stand up to their mammies but it's a damn difficult situation. AGain, part of me thinks time will sort it out and the mammies will move on, people will move out and eventually there'll be no question of having it hanging over you.

It might be a possibility to stand up to mammy and daddy when their thinking along your lines but when mammy and daddy go to church every week like 90% of the people who've grown up in any rural area you don't start trying to cause family fights by asking to be put down as an atheist... and that's the way it's going to be for a long long time... can't see that changing anytime soon...

strobe

johnmcdnl wrote: »

It might be a possibility to stand up to mammy and daddy when their thinking along your lines but when mammy and daddy go to church every week like 90% of the people who've grown up in any rural area you don't start trying to cause family fights by asking to be put down as an atheist... and that's the way it's going to be for a long long time... can't see that changing anytime soon...

Don't ask anyone to put down atheist (heaven forbid). Just ask people to think about what they are putting down and understand what they are putting down, and answer honestly.... dot dot dot.

ChocolateSauce

I would tick no religion over atheist because I don't want to risk perpetuating the misimpression than atheism is a religion.

I agree with Dades that it is up to teens to tell their mammies and daddies to put them down accurately. Of all my atheist friends my age, every last one says that during the last census they were counted as catholics because their parents filled them in as such.

It won't be no religion for me but hopefully there will be a lot fewer mammy-catholics in this one!

Galvasean

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

I would tick no religion over atheist because I don't want to risk perpetuating the misimpression than atheism is a religion.

Quoted for truth.

bluewolf wrote: »

It won't be no religion for me

Why not?

Galvasean

Galvasean wrote: »

Why not?

buddhist at your service :pac: o/

Galvasean

bluewolf wrote: »

buddhist at your service :pac: o/

:eek:

c_man

I put down "No religion" on the last one. Then the likes of David Quinn use the numbers of those who wrote atheist instead of the combined no religion as a battering ram.

Will be putting down "No religion" on the next one too.

Dougla2

bluewolf wrote: »

buddhist at your service :pac: o/

pff your an atheist Buddhist though aren't you?

im a Satanist and im going to put down no religion to bolster atheist numbers

Dougla2

Dougla2 wrote: »

pff your an atheist Buddhist though aren't you?

Umm... close enough

Dades

bluewolf wrote: »

buddhist at your service :pac: o/

Damned Buddhists trying to steal control of our schools.

Galvasean

All aboard the atheist draft! Buddhists and Satanists are welcome!